Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 49 of 55 FirstFirst ... 394748495051 ... LastLast
Results 721 to 735 of 821
  1. #721
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    19,512
    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    did I say history is irrelevant for everything.
    whatever the history was for illegal immigrants crossing the border, does that make the current illegals crossing the border not matter? because millions of people on the right would disagree, and this is one of the reasons Trump was elected to get better border control.
    So history is only irrelevant for things you disagree with but relevant for things you agree with

    Heck, the border crossing numbers I cited are more recent than 9/11 lol.

  2. #722
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    America
    Posts
    75,397
    Facts are but a nuisance.

  3. #723
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    19,323
    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    I'm not familiar with illegals from Europe so why would I have anything to say about that.
    one being a problem does not eliminate the other. why are you so focused on European illegals and not those illegally entering across the border? illegals crossing the border is a problem and you shouldn't try and deflect away from that.
    if you want to talk about illegals from Europe then go ahead.
    You sit here talking non stop all day about how illegal immigration is a problem, yet you don't even know the largest offender group of the most commonly used method for illegal entry?? What the hell?

    *you know what, I kinda called you out for focusing in on brown folks instead of white, but I'll be honest, that's all the media talks about, and regardless how much any of us claim to be aware of fake news (please understand from a strictly journalistic and factual perspective, Donald Trump is THE closest definition we have to fake news in mainstream media. The other ones are more coniving, so maybe more dangerous, whereas trump is just a clear idiot about his ****), ALL of our perspectives are affected by mainstream media. I myself didn't know this europe **** til someone posted it just the other day, lol

    So maybe focus on YOUR ancestors motherland, you LOVE educating us all on all these random crazy stories, why don't you do this, find every story about every illegal white immigrant you possibly can, and just post. Post away friend, just post like there's no tomorrow. Make sure we ALL know the illegal immigrant issue going on, and wether or not we need to start banning white people from Europe. Not racist, not from australia or south africa, no just EUROPE. Its not racist, its based on the place where most people illegally overstay their visas from in order to illegally enter and add to our ILLEGAL immigration problem!
    Last edited by nastynice; 09-14-2017 at 04:05 AM.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  4. #724
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    831
    Gonna be fun to see how Special spins whatever Trump agreed to in terms of protecting young immigrants, considering he just spent four pages harping on what a problem they are. I'm sure he'll find a way to be right and wrong at the same time, as he always does.

    Then again, the whole deal might be a sham until specified.

  5. #725
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    America
    Posts
    75,397
    Y'all heard the new Trump rally cries they are practicing. Right?

    Renovate the existing fence! Renovate the existing fence! Renovate the existing fence!

  6. #726
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    right here
    Posts
    17,022
    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    So history is only irrelevant for things you disagree with but relevant for things you agree with

    Heck, the border crossing numbers I cited are more recent than 9/11 lol.
    history is going to be relevant on a case by case basis, whether it would be something I agree on or not is not the factor.
    it wouldn't matter whether illegal immigration numbers were from the last few years, 10+ years ago, 20+ years ago. the fact right now is that there are still too many illegals crossing the border. I know that doesn't matter to you because illegal/legal doesn't make a damn difference to your side.
    there is no argument against this. this is what many on the right have said, part of what got Trump elected, illegals crossing the border is too many.






    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    You sit here talking non stop all day about how illegal immigration is a problem, yet you don't even know the largest offender group of the most commonly used method for illegal entry?? What the hell?

    *you know what, I kinda called you out for focusing in on brown folks instead of white, but I'll be honest, that's all the media talks about, and regardless how much any of us claim to be aware of fake news (please understand from a strictly journalistic and factual perspective, Donald Trump is THE closest definition we have to fake news in mainstream media. The other ones are more coniving, so maybe more dangerous, whereas trump is just a clear idiot about his ****), ALL of our perspectives are affected by mainstream media. I myself didn't know this europe **** til someone posted it just the other day, lol

    So maybe focus on YOUR ancestors motherland, you LOVE educating us all on all these random crazy stories, why don't you do this, find every story about every illegal white immigrant you possibly can, and just post. Post away friend, just post like there's no tomorrow. Make sure we ALL know the illegal immigrant issue going on, and wether or not we need to start banning white people from Europe. Not racist, not from australia or south africa, no just EUROPE. Its not racist, its based on the place where most people illegally overstay their visas from in order to illegally enter and add to our ILLEGAL immigration problem!
    you keep wanting to make this a brown/white racial issue when it's not. this is legal vs illegal, and for this issue that gets a lot of attention it is about illegally crossing the border. I know your side hates this and has to try and make it racial when it's not.

    illegal immigration in illegally crossing the border is a problem. that is a separate issue from illegals that came from anywhere else, whether that is Europe or wherever. anything your side can do to make it a racial issue you do.

    I'm not the one getting upset over illegals from Europe, you brought that up. do you ahve anything to back up the number of illegals from Europe?
    this from wikipedia (easier to copy/paste) with numbers as of 2009 that came from here..
    https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/...ll_pe_2009.pdf
    Country of origin Raw number Percent of total Percent change 2000 to 2009
    Mexico 6,650,000 62% +42%
    El Salvador 530,000 5% +25%
    Guatemala 480,000 4% +65%
    Honduras 320,000 3% +95%
    Philippines 270,000 2% +33%
    India 200,000 2% +64%
    Korea 200,000 2% +14%
    Ecuador 170,000 2% +55%
    Brazil 150,000 1% +49%
    China 120,000 1% −37%
    Other 1,650,000 15% −17%
    I'm not familiar with illegals from Europe so that part of illegal immigration was not of interest to me. if people from "wherever" have since been illegal because of expired visas then how would one prevent that/stop that? that's not the same as preventing people from illegally crossing the border.






    Quote Originally Posted by browski234 View Post
    Gonna be fun to see how Special spins whatever Trump agreed to in terms of protecting young immigrants, considering he just spent four pages harping on what a problem they are. I'm sure he'll find a way to be right and wrong at the same time, as he always does.

    Then again, the whole deal might be a sham until specified.
    you mean the no deal.




  7. #727
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,205
    Mass migration from central and south America is essentially a welfare program for the nations sending people north and a cheap labor program for US corporations in the service, construction and manufacturing sectors.

    The corporate media has largley sided with the left to push for mass cheap labor. Mass immigration does in fact place downward pressure on wages within the construction, service and industrial sectors. Many left leaning economists have written entire books in an attempt to deny this.

    Nations like Mexico send their poor to America so they don't have to spend their tax dollars taking care of them. This situation vastly expanded after NAFTA. The trade deal demolished rural economies across the Mexican countryside. Small farmers, merchants etc. People who couldn't compete with masaive agricultural/manufacturing corporations. The Mexican middle/upper class LOVES this arrangement. (lower taxes for them)

    After NAFTA millions of Mexicans fled north looking for work. Other trade deals like CAFTA had the same impact on other nations. We need to make these nations self reliant. They need to take care of their own poor. WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN POOR.

    There's millions of American citizens of all colors who can't find work. There's also millions of working poor who can't afford to live without welfare. The whole setup is to generate mass corporate profits. Mass migration, low wages, unemployment and welfare to subsidize corporate profits.

    If Mexico was sending millions of poor white people to the US it would have the same impact on US citizens. It would also benefit corporations just the same. This isn't about race it's about US citizens being attacked from all sides in the name of profits.

    Corporations have started to target skilled labor. They're trying to vastly expand visa programs in order to drive wages down within more skilled fields. Especially tech companies.

    Sure there are some racists who don't want more people of color in the US but the vast majority of people against mass immigration are focused on their own material well being. The economy.

    This is why most people against mass immigration are also against mass offshoring. They want living wage jobs in the USA much like we experienced during the post war boom. The slogan "Make America Great Again" is pointing to the post war boom. It's all about economics not race or "white supremacy".

  8. #728
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,205
    Also, some economists will say open borders is just "free trade". This is a total lie. Free trade is built on the theory of "comparative advantage".

    I don't want to spend time explaining comparative advantage in full. Too many people don't have time for that. The only relevant point is David Ricardo came up with the theory and this theory is the basis for free trade.

    Ricardo never said labor mobility was part of free trade. In fact, he built the idea of comparative advantage on the assumption that labor would stay within the home nation. That there wouldn't be mass migration. He also assumed the same of capital. He said labor/business would stay witin the home nations and produce goods then nations would trade these goods. The theory is more complex than that but as far as labor/capital mobility that's the gist of it.

    We changed this in the 1970's. That's when US corporations began "importing" cheap labor while offshoring to second/third world nations for more cheap labor. This isn't the way capitalism/free trade was supposed to unfold. It's a perversion of market principles with the goal of maximizing corporate profits. It's great for GDP but not good for the American working class. Same thing across Europe.

    Since the 1970's we've seen the prison population skyrocketing. They have to do something with all the surplus labor. Millions of people without jobs. Crime, poverty and despair has expanded as a result of mass offshoring and mass immigration. They simply don't care about poor working class Americans. It's "collateral damage" in their view.

  9. #729
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Bushwood Country Club
    Posts
    70,812
    Quote Originally Posted by hamburger View Post
    Mass migration from central and south America is essentially a welfare program for the nations sending people north and a cheap labor program for US corporations in the service, construction and manufacturing sectors.

    The corporate media has largley sided with the left to push for mass cheap labor. Mass immigration does in fact place downward pressure on wages within the construction, service and industrial sectors. Many left leaning economists have written entire books in an attempt to deny this.

    Nations like Mexico send their poor to America so they don't have to spend their tax dollars taking care of them. This situation vastly expanded after NAFTA. The trade deal demolished rural economies across the Mexican countryside. Small farmers, merchants etc. People who couldn't compete with masaive agricultural/manufacturing corporations. The Mexican middle/upper class LOVES this arrangement. (lower taxes for them)

    After NAFTA millions of Mexicans fled north looking for work. Other trade deals like CAFTA had the same impact on other nations. We need to make these nations self reliant. They need to take care of their own poor. WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN POOR.

    There's millions of American citizens of all colors who can't find work. There's also millions of working poor who can't afford to live without welfare. The whole setup is to generate mass corporate profits. Mass migration, low wages, unemployment and welfare to subsidize corporate profits.

    If Mexico was sending millions of poor white people to the US it would have the same impact on US citizens. It would also benefit corporations just the same. This isn't about race it's about US citizens being attacked from all sides in the name of profits.

    Corporations have started to target skilled labor. They're trying to vastly expand visa programs in order to drive wages down within more skilled fields. Especially tech companies.

    Sure there are some racists who don't want more people of color in the US but the vast majority of people against mass immigration are focused on their own material well being. The economy.

    This is why most people against mass immigration are also against mass offshoring. They want living wage jobs in the USA much like we experienced during the post war boom. The slogan "Make America Great Again" is pointing to the post war boom. It's all about economics not race or "white supremacy".
    First off, I agree with you. 100%.

    Now, let's say we somehow come up with a way to stop the mass illegal immigration, forcing the southern countries to take care of their own, and we force our own corporations to hire inside the country. What cost will this be at? I mean, corporations have plenty of people to answer to, they can't absorb the massive hit to margins. Who pays for it? If we develop a stronger middle class, that makes more money, isn't that negated (and the poor even worse off) with the now climbing cost of goods/services?

    I ask because you clearly are educated in this subject, I would like your opinion.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  10. #730
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    15,788
    All I know is Mexicans should take advice from hurricane Jose and stay away from our borders!!! #MAGA!!!!

  11. #731
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    19,323
    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    you keep wanting to make this a brown/white racial issue when it's not. this is legal vs illegal, and for this issue that gets a lot of attention it is about illegally crossing the border. I know your side hates this and has to try and make it racial when it's not.

    illegal immigration in illegally crossing the border is a problem. that is a separate issue from illegals that came from anywhere else, whether that is Europe or wherever. anything your side can do to make it a racial issue you do.

    I'm not the one getting upset over illegals from Europe, you brought that up. do you ahve anything to back up the number of illegals from Europe?
    this from wikipedia (easier to copy/paste) with numbers as of 2009 that came from here..
    https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/...ll_pe_2009.pdf


    I'm not familiar with illegals from Europe so that part of illegal immigration was not of interest to me. if people from "wherever" have since been illegal because of expired visas then how would one prevent that/stop that? that's not the same as preventing people from illegally crossing the border.
    You're not the one getting upset over illegal immigrants from Europe.

    My. Exact. ****in. Point. lol

    You act like you are an anti illegal immigration champion, yet shockingly when the people seem to be white, all of a sudden you just don't really care about illegal immigration.

    I wonder why...hmmm...lmao

    You can try the whole, oh it's just about the border defense, but realize that only makes my point stronger

    Ur numbers are total numbers, not current trends

  12. #732
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    19,323
    Quote Originally Posted by hamburger View Post
    Mass migration from central and south America is essentially a welfare program for the nations sending people north and a cheap labor program for US corporations in the service, construction and manufacturing sectors.

    The corporate media has largley sided with the left to push for mass cheap labor. Mass immigration does in fact place downward pressure on wages within the construction, service and industrial sectors. Many left leaning economists have written entire books in an attempt to deny this.

    Nations like Mexico send their poor to America so they don't have to spend their tax dollars taking care of them. This situation vastly expanded after NAFTA. The trade deal demolished rural economies across the Mexican countryside. Small farmers, merchants etc. People who couldn't compete with masaive agricultural/manufacturing corporations. The Mexican middle/upper class LOVES this arrangement. (lower taxes for them)

    After NAFTA millions of Mexicans fled north looking for work. Other trade deals like CAFTA had the same impact on other nations. We need to make these nations self reliant. They need to take care of their own poor. WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN POOR.

    There's millions of American citizens of all colors who can't find work. There's also millions of working poor who can't afford to live without welfare. The whole setup is to generate mass corporate profits. Mass migration, low wages, unemployment and welfare to subsidize corporate profits.

    If Mexico was sending millions of poor white people to the US it would have the same impact on US citizens. It would also benefit corporations just the same. This isn't about race it's about US citizens being attacked from all sides in the name of profits.

    Corporations have started to target skilled labor. They're trying to vastly expand visa programs in order to drive wages down within more skilled fields. Especially tech companies.

    Sure there are some racists who don't want more people of color in the US but the vast majority of people against mass immigration are focused on their own material well being. The economy.

    This is why most people against mass immigration are also against mass offshoring. They want living wage jobs in the USA much like we experienced during the post war boom. The slogan "Make America Great Again" is pointing to the post war boom. It's all about economics not race or "white supremacy".
    Quote Originally Posted by hamburger View Post
    Also, some economists will say open borders is just "free trade". This is a total lie. Free trade is built on the theory of "comparative advantage".

    I don't want to spend time explaining comparative advantage in full. Too many people don't have time for that. The only relevant point is David Ricardo came up with the theory and this theory is the basis for free trade.

    Ricardo never said labor mobility was part of free trade. In fact, he built the idea of comparative advantage on the assumption that labor would stay within the home nation. That there wouldn't be mass migration. He also assumed the same of capital. He said labor/business would stay witin the home nations and produce goods then nations would trade these goods. The theory is more complex than that but as far as labor/capital mobility that's the gist of it.

    We changed this in the 1970's. That's when US corporations began "importing" cheap labor while offshoring to second/third world nations for more cheap labor. This isn't the way capitalism/free trade was supposed to unfold. It's a perversion of market principles with the goal of maximizing corporate profits. It's great for GDP but not good for the American working class. Same thing across Europe.

    Since the 1970's we've seen the prison population skyrocketing. They have to do something with all the surplus labor. Millions of people without jobs. Crime, poverty and despair has expanded as a result of mass offshoring and mass immigration. They simply don't care about poor working class Americans. It's "collateral damage" in their view.
    Solid posts

  13. #733
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    4,205
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    First off, I agree with you. 100%.

    Now, let's say we somehow come up with a way to stop the mass illegal immigration, forcing the southern countries to take care of their own, and we force our own corporations to hire inside the country. What cost will this be at? I mean, corporations have plenty of people to answer to, they can't absorb the massive hit to margins. Who pays for it? If we develop a stronger middle class, that makes more money, isn't that negated (and the poor even worse off) with the now climbing cost of goods/services?

    I ask because you clearly are educated in this subject, I would like your opinion.
    Well, right now a handful of large companies have trillions of dollars in offshore accounts. They have enough money to move production back to the US and pay living wages.

    The bigger issue is what it would do to Wall St. In fact, that's probably THE issue. Investors would take a huge hit if we immediately cut off the flow of cheap labor and reversed mass offshoring. It would also impact GDP in the short term. It would also impact many developing economies that rely on western corporations. They would have to develop their own nations but in the long run their people would be better off because most of the wealth would be produced domestically and kept within their nation. They would eventually benefit from REAL free trade. Producing their own products. Trading their own products. Keeping the wealth they produce within their home nation.

    As it is now western corporations are draining wealth/resources from less developed nations. Sure they bring jobs but what's the long term cost? World poverty hasn't been declining anywhere near the rate globalists foretold.

    Anyway, the biggest obstacle to "fair trade" and sane immigration policy is Wall St. They're using the left in order to feed profits. This is also why Republicans haven't done anything about immigration (pre-Trump). Wall St owns both parties.

    The same scenerio is playing out in western Europe. They want to bring millions of people in for cheap labor. That's why people voted for Brexit but most of their political parties actually want mass migration. Especially in Germany and France.

    They say domestic birth rates are drastically declining so they have to bring millions of foreign workers into Europe in order to keep the economy going. It's hard to use that argument in the US when millions of citizens are unemployed and or in jail/prison.

    On some level I think a few politicians have a rather nefarious agenda. A sort of utopian vision where a more centralized form of government manifests and mass migration is a part if that plan. Especially within the EU. In the US I think profit is the main motivating force. Followed by the New-Lefts's utopian views of "multiculturalism" but that's just being used by corporations in order to feed profits. In reality the working class black community has been hit hardest by mass immigration. Same with working class Latinos who are citizens. Same with working class whites. All colors/races are feeling the impact of mass migration/offshoring. (US Citizens)

    Anyway, I'm not sure if it's even possible to spark another "post war boom" scenerio. We'll probably never be able to match that short of "creative destruction". (Another huge war) The post war boom took place largley because Europe's manufacturing base was destroyed in the war and because new markets spread into old colonized nations. We ended the colonial system after WW2 which sparked a lot of growth. It was the foundation of globalization in its current form.

    IMO simply ending mass immigration will have a positive impact on US working class citizens. Wages will go up and there will be more jobs. Offshoring is a more complex issue that would and should take more time to address.

  14. #734
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    America
    Posts
    75,397
    Ending mass immigration as you describe it will result in considerably higher food prices and manufacturing will remain a shriveled husk because that will remain in countries like China and Taiwan. So congratulations you just doubled or tripled the American grocery bill and added only pennies to their paycheck.

  15. #735
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    19,512
    Yeah I get the argument and I believe it in principle but large swaths of illegal immigrants are doing work such as picking fruits which won't result in any higher wages for US workers if they disappeared and it's doubtful the internal labor force would start doing those jobs.

    Outside of that issue, it is a very compelling theory.

Page 49 of 55 FirstFirst ... 394748495051 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •