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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    The 6
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    21,509

    Do you still beleive in Masai??

    I have never been a big Casey fan but my questions are not for him I beleive Casey has done a pretty good job with the roster he has been given to work with.

    My questions are directed towards MU.

    1. Of the 7-8 very young players on this team (Nogueira, Siakam, Powell, Bruno, Poetle, Wright, Sully, Vanvleet) who do you see in the raptors rotation moving forward?

    2. It was inivitable the team would hit a wall with that much inexperience.. was the hope that Siakam and Poetle could be rotational bigs on a team trying to contend? In their rookie season?

    3. Is there a direction? Half the team is trying to win now, the other half are raw prospects that will take a few years to develop .. internal growth is great but not if your youth is set to hit their prime when your best player is declining out of his? What's the the plan there.

    4. Do you beleive in this core ? If you do you have to go all in. If you don't then save us the agony and start the rebuild.

    I'm not taking credit away from MU and what he has done for this team. I think we have all praised him for the job he has done.. at the same time we should be able to question his shortcomings as well. It's been 3-4 seasons we have needed a pf. What gives, why can't we adress this position. We're not asking for Anthony Davis or Kevin Love here but I think in the 4 seasons there could have been better 4s to attain than Scola and Sullinger.

    My faith in MU was based on his ability to make moves, not get attached to certain players i.e Rudy Gay. His ability to to connect with players i.e Kyle Lowry. But it concerns me that he isn't able to trade players he has drafted, that he can't seem to stick wth one direction. It seems he's taking the one foot in the door one foot out approach. Meaning he kinda sorta beleives in the core and he kinda sorta doesn't... I want him to be bold.. if he truly doesn't beleive in this core he needs to go all in for a rebuild.. if he does he needs to stop hoarding young assets and give these guys some quality vets. He isn't doing the young guys any favours because they don't get the playing time to develop. At the same time he isn't helping the core compete wth so many inexperienced players.

    I guess the thread question should be does MU still beleive in this core? Because to me it seems he doesn't. But we will leave it as is.. do you still beleive in MU ?

    I still have faith. But if he yet again fails to make the move the team needs before the dead line I would have to start to question his ability to improve this squad. Handing out max contracts to Derozan and Lowry with out addressing those issues to me is a big waste..

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    10,423
    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I have never been a big Casey fan but my questions are not for him I beleive Casey has done a pretty good job with the roster he has been given to work with.

    My questions are directed towards MU.

    1. Of the 7-8 very young players on this team (Nogueira, Siakam, Powell, Bruno, Poetle, Wright, Sully, Vanvleet) who do you see in the raptors rotation moving forward?

    2. It was inivitable the team would hit a wall with that much inexperience.. was the hope that Siakam and Poetle could be rotational bigs on a team trying to contend? In their rookie season?

    3. Is there a direction? Half the team is trying to win now, the other half are raw prospects that will take a few years to develop .. internal growth is great but not if your youth is set to hit their prime when your best player is declining out of his? What's the the plan there.

    4. Do you beleive in this core ? If you do you have to go all in. If you don't then save us the agony and start the rebuild.

    I'm not taking credit away from MU and what he has done for this team. I think we have all praised him for the job he has done.. at the same time we should be able to question his shortcomings as well. It's been 3-4 seasons we have needed a pf. What gives, why can't we adress this position. We're not asking for Anthony Davis or Kevin Love here but I think in the 4 seasons there could have been better 4s to attain than Scola and Sullinger.

    My faith in MU was based on his ability to make moves, not get attached to certain players i.e Rudy Gay. His ability to to connect with players i.e Kyle Lowry. But it concerns me that he isn't able to trade players he has drafted, that he can't seem to stick wth one direction. It seems he's taking the one foot in the door one foot out approach. Meaning he kinda sorta beleives in the core and he kinda sorta doesn't... I want him to be bold.. if he truly doesn't beleive in this core he needs to go all in for a rebuild.. if he does he needs to stop hoarding young assets and give these guys some quality vets. He isn't doing the young guys any favours because they don't get the playing time to develop. At the same time he isn't helping the core compete wth so many inexperienced players.

    I guess the thread question should be does MU still beleive in this core? Because to me it seems he doesn't. But we will leave it as is.. do you still beleive in MU ?

    I still have faith. But if he yet again fails to make the move the team needs before the dead line I would have to start to question his ability to improve this squad. Handing out max contracts to Derozan and Lowry with out addressing those issues to me is a big waste..
    I'm not sure Masai ever did believe in the core of Lowry and DeRozan (in the sense that he thought he could build a championship caliber team around them in short order). Things "clicked" when he started trying to dismantle it for a proper rebuild. Fan interest goes up. Annual profits rise. Players start breaking records. Team goes to ECF. Player's want to stay for the first time in team history. The players and fans have always "overlooked" in this market. Now.... "we the north." Things took off in a way that he didn't expect and he hasn't needed or wanted to put an end to it.

    The reality is he has been rebuilding on the fly. He believes in his scouts and he believes in his development staff. It doesn't always have to be "all or nothing." That's how GM's tend to lose jobs (ie. look at Brooklyn for one extreme and Philadelphia for the other).

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    13,836
    he made the best of the situation. he's slowly rebuilding through the draft into a sustainable model and make it into 'his' team. Resigning Derozan was important because he's going to trade him down the road for a big package of players and picks. it had to be done. i.e. Melo

    but shared sentiments. I never believed in Derozan to begin with (as a legit alpha player) and he's not a legit superstar as most of the bandwagon Raptors make him out to be. A lot of bandwagon fans actually thing Derozan is the most important player on the Raptors and that they should trade Lowry - and Cojo can do wonders as the main starting PG lol. facebook convos and such.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    14,926
    This team without Lowry is not going anywhere.

    The Raps have hit the boiling point. Masai has to make a decision on whether or not the current core is good enough to go all in with. What he does from now to the off season will define his tenure here imo.

    Right now I'm not sure how I feel about Masai. I don't think we have seen his team on the floor and that's really strange when it's been what, 4 yrs now?
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Winnipeg, Manitoba
    Posts
    12,920
    Get rid of the coach

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,273
    [QUOTE=koreancabbage;31459817]he made the best of the situation. he's slowly rebuilding through the draft into a sustainable model and make it into 'his' team. Resigning Derozan was important because he's going to trade him down the road for a big package of players and picks. it had to be done. i.e. Melo/QUOTE]

    He made the best of the situation in the first couple of years. Resigning Derozan is fine, too.

    But, it's all the small moves around the "core" of Lowry and Derozan that's been really not working well:

    - Carroll turned out a poor fit
    - Biz was signed to a very player-friendly contract that didn't allow us to keep him
    - Lottery pick from Knicks set around decreasing in value until it turned into a rather unimpressive player
    - Sullinger was too much of a wishful thinking move
    - A whole bunch of mediocre picks, young players, and DL-ers just hanging around taking up roster space...

    I don't know yet if JV and Casey should be added to the list.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    4,809
    I'm trying to stick by Masai and his intuition for the game of basketball but his free agent signings have been abject failures across the board.

    Sullinger is just filling up space with his mass not doing anything.

    Corey is a take-it-or-leave-it player with very little offensive IQ and a propensity to make terrible decisions late in the clock.

    Carroll sucks plain as day but what boggles the mind is that he's making 14+ million this year... His agent must be a diabolical genius - or more likely Masai is the enabling fool (take your pick really).

    Bottom line: this whole situation is a house of cards.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    5,399
    MU, although very conservative, is very effective when he makes trades. He fleeces teams a lot. Whether it's the Bebe trade, Grevis Vazquez trade, or the Garbagani trade, MU gets a lot for what he offers other teams. This following article summarizes what I described:

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2016/...trade-history/

    I still believe in his approach. You have to fleece opponents in trades at every opportunity. Rob Hannigan isn't the brightest GM in the world either. Ibaka is easier to get in a lopsided trade than Millsap w/ Budenholzer.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    52,472
    I suppose he's done a fairly good job but I don't think Masai takes enough risk.

    I'm fairly confident he can build a playoff team, but not a contending team (don't think last year's team was a true contender).

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Mission, BC
    Posts
    3,006
    This is a critical moment for the franchise and it looks disfunctional right now. If they can unload Carrol and get SF that can play it would help a ton. Then all you need is a defensive 4. Too much focus on the 4 when all thats needed is a defensive rebounding 4 to let JV be free on offense.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,578
    I have no issues with him. He inherited a team with very little talent and to the front offices credit, they've figured out a way to compete at a very high level by spamming two players haha.

    The reason why he hasn't addressed the four spot yet, is because he got a team with not too many assets and a lot of holes to fill. He's only had significant cap space once and he used it to fill our biggest need at the time, The three spot. He missed on that but it happens. He's had to basically rebuild his benches because when he came here, we had no bench. It's slowly gotten better year by year by him trading scraps for draft picks and developing them, while also signing cheap contracts and hitting on them.

    It's hard to fill holes when you don't have assets to fill them. Now he does, but what players have moved or signed for the mle that could be playing the four for us? It's hard to trade in the NBA and it shows. Not a lot of movement the last few years. Now with the new CBA and how it helps teams keep there stars and the fact that the salary cap has exploded, it's made teams even less likely to make trades.

    Two years ago he had to find a starting four, a backup five, and a backup pg. He only had league exceptions to do this all. He turned that into Joseph, BB, Scola, Powell, and a first round pick. All he used to get all that was the exceptions and bench fodder that was out of the league a year later (Vasquez). This year he needed a backup five, and a starting four. He had a lotto pick, plus another late pick and the exceptions. The 17 draft as a whole hasn't produced much. You could argue that he should of made a trade but who actually ended up moving? He actually did have a tradelined up for an all Star but it fell through right at the end. I commend him for not overpaying for ibaka. Especially since it might be easy for him (considering his relationship with him). In the end, he filled the back up five with a prospect he got for nothing and was part of our depth the year before.

    Masai has faced a lot of challenges and has slowly accumulated assets from nothing. This isn't NBA 2k17 where you can make a trade at anytime.
    Last edited by The Wise 1; 02-14-2017 at 02:26 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,578
    My only criticisms are the way they developed Bruno (should of stashed him) and there usage of Jonas. They should of traded him awhile ago.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,633
    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise 1 View Post
    My only criticisms are the way they developed Bruno (should of stashed him) and there usage of Jonas. They should of traded him awhile ago.
    Carrol isn't the problem and JV isn't the problem. The problem is at the 4. And they did stash Bruno pretty much. Where else are you going to stash him other than the d league and expect him to be developed for the role you want while getting playing time and acclimating to the language and culture?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,633
    I see MU doing his best to mimic the Spurs without the lose-for-Duncan season. Once he gets his coach in place it'll be his show and the true test of what he's built. I hope he gets another 5 years after this contract. He's a big picture GM. He's brought a lot of respectability to Toronto on more levels than sports alone. If shapkins pans out with the jays then we have a very good group of leaders in our city including even Tfc. That's one thing Rogers and co have seem to have done well. I think shanahan is a best and will have his job for a very long time, too many fall guys to fire before it get s to him.

    I digress, but yes I still trust MU. The young guys on the roster are not wasted assets. Orlando's trade for Ibaka was a waste of assets.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Ontario
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    10,115
    Quote Originally Posted by The Wise 1 View Post
    I have no issues with him. He inherited a team with very little talent and to the front offices credit, they've figured out a way to compete at a very high level by spamming two players haha.

    The reason why he hasn't addressed the four spot yet, is because he got a team with not too many assets and a lot of holes to fill. He's only had significant cap space once and he used it to fill our biggest need at the time, The three spot. He missed on that but it happens. He's had to basically rebuild his benches because when he came here, we had no bench. It's slowly gotten better year by year by him trading scraps for draft picks and developing them, while also signing cheap contracts and hitting on them.

    It's hard to fill holes when you don't have assets to fill them. Now he does, but what players have moved or signed for the mle that could be playing the four for us? It's hard to trade in the NBA and it shows. Not a lot of movement the last few years. Now with the new CBA and how it helps teams keep there stars and the fact that the salary cap has exploded, it's made teams even less likely to make trades.

    Two years ago he had to find a starting four, a backup five, and a backup pg. He only had league exceptions to do this all. He turned that into Joseph, BB, Scola, Powell, and a first round pick. All he used to get all that was the exceptions and bench fodder that was out of the league a year later (Vasquez). This year he needed a backup five, and a starting four. He had a lotto pick, plus another late pick and the exceptions. The 17 draft as a whole hasn't produced much. You could argue that he should of made a trade but who actually ended up moving? He actually did have a tradelined up for an all Star but it fell through right at the end. I commend him for not overpaying for ibaka. Especially since it might be easy for him (considering his relationship with him). In the end, he filled the back up five with a prospect he got for nothing and was part of our depth the year before.

    Masai has faced a lot of challenges and has slowly accumulated assets from nothing. This isn't NBA 2k17 where you can make a trade at anytime.
    I have to laugh. Honestly, the team on the floor IS the team he inherited. Aside from the players he's drafted, this is basically the same team. People need to wake up and see what's really going on here. We have a gm who's afraid to take a risk. The rest of your post is just excuses for his failure to take risks and be creative.
    Last edited by mike_noodles; 02-14-2017 at 08:37 AM.

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