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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiants1213 View Post
    The Giants should have signed another LHRP. It's cool that we have Melancon but the Giants will blow a lot of saves trying to get him the ball with a lead.

    What makes you so sure of that? I assume you want a LHRP for the sake of getting left handed hitters out. Osich and Okert can both be elite against lefties. Both of their flaws, especially Osich comes against righties. Will smith was a rare lefty reliever who actually did better against righties the past two years while still being good against lefties. That's why smith was a solid set up man option. Fortunately, the Giants have Derek Law as a set up guy who's also very good against lefties. Though it's true you can never have too may bullpen options, I still like the way this bullpen is built even without smith. Law for the 8th, melancon for the 9th. The 6th and 7th can be pieced together with specialists. Strickland and Gearrin against righties and Okert and Osich against lefties. Also, Kontos has done well the past two seasons against both lefties and righties.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    Just curious why you don't think they'll be in on either of those players? I agree the Giants don't typically chase huge contracts to guys likes Cespedes or Justin Upton. I just personally think Machado and Harper are unique and exceptions since they'll each only be 26 years old with lots of prime years still ahead.

    Also, Giants have Pences 20 mil coming off the books after 2018 and will need to address RF.
    They hit free agnecy a year before Cueto who the giants need to resign, and hit free agnecy a year before Bumgarner, and the giants need to make sure to have enough money set aside for him. Plus just signing one or the other doesn't fill the hole in CF either. It's not that the giants can't go and sign either, they but they need to have money set aside to keep their own guys and fill other spots as they come up.

  3. #213
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    What makes you so sure of that? I assume you want a LHRP for the sake of getting left handed hitters out. Osich and Okert can both be elite against lefties. Both of their flaws, especially Osich comes against righties. Will smith was a rare lefty reliever who actually did better against righties the past two years while still being good against lefties. That's why smith was a solid set up man option. Fortunately, the Giants have Derek Law as a set up guy who's also very good against lefties. Though it's true you can never have too may bullpen options, I still like the way this bullpen is built even without smith. Law for the 8th, melancon for the 9th. The 6th and 7th can be pieced together with specialists. Strickland and Gearrin against righties and Okert and Osich against lefties. Also, Kontos has done well the past two seasons against both lefties and righties.
    Our buddy Ryan Vogelsong is now free. How about a minor league deal just to see what happens. Who knows maybe he has some magic left for us.

    http://www.twinkietown.com/2017/3/21...riment-pitcher

    ^^WE NEED THESE GUYS NOW.

  4. #214
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    ^ At some point you just have to leave he past where it is.
    Baseball has been very very good to me!

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by downsos View Post
    This. I don't trust any of our lefties on top of that.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    The worst part about the Smith injury is how it changes everyone else role. Hopefully Law is given the chance to be a true 8th inning guy and can prove to get both righties & lefties out. That will keep Strickland & Osich in the 7th. We have an excellent closer, just need the bridge to Melancon to be excellent too.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    They hit free agnecy a year before Cueto who the giants need to resign, and hit free agnecy a year before Bumgarner, and the giants need to make sure to have enough money set aside for him. Plus just signing one or the other doesn't fill the hole in CF either. It's not that the giants can't go and sign either, they but they need to have money set aside to keep their own guys and fill other spots as they come up.
    The Giants have been sticking about 60-70 million a year for the last 5-6 years in the rainy day fund, I would consider that having money put aside.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    They hit free agnecy a year before Cueto who the giants need to resign, and hit free agnecy a year before Bumgarner, and the giants need to make sure to have enough money set aside for him. Plus just signing one or the other doesn't fill the hole in CF either. It's not that the giants can't go and sign either, they but they need to have money set aside to keep their own guys and fill other spots as they come up.

    Those are all good points. But I think a few developments can make it happen. I was using Spotrac which keeps track of MLB payrolls, and it seems clear to me that the Giants will have the ability to re-sign Cueto after this season and also extend Bumgarner fairly easily. Cain's 22 million comes off the books after this season which should help in re-signing Cueto when he opts out. Denard Span's 11 million comes off the books after 2018. Bumgarner will most likely be extended after this season so the Giants can get a better deal but a lot of Bumgarner's contract can be paid after Samardzija's 19.8 million comes off the books in 2020 since Bum is technically under contract until 2019.

    You mentioned the Giants need to have the money to keep their own guys and fill other spots. That's true, which is why it's important that certain young guys develop to fill as you mentioned the CF spot.

    So my assumptions in order for the Giants to be in on Harper/Machado in the winter of 2018 a few things have to happen:

    1. Parker/Williamson are at least servicable league average LF. Both will be cheap for the next 4-5 years.

    2. Duggar/Slater/Reynolds, one of which becomes serviceable in CF. Span hasn't exactly left a high standard. One of these 3 prospects becoming an everyday CF would be huge for this team. Duggar or Slater may even get playing time this year if Span gets hurt.

    3. Christian Arroyo developing into a league average player giving the Giants more flexibility at 3B or at 2B if Panik struggles/hurt.

    4. Tyler Beede/Ty Blach developing into serviceable 4th or 5th starters that can be relied upon. The Giants have Bum/Cueto/Shark/Moore locked up through the end of 2019 season. So having Beede/Blach as servicable pitchers insure the Giants in case of injury or bad performance.

    5. The entire bullpen besides Melancon is on great value deals for the Giants. If Law, Strickland, Okert, Osich, Kontos, and others can be relied upon, the Giants will maintain huge financial flexibility to invest in a start player like a Harper/Machado


    It's fun to watch the development of these players because as you can see it has great impact on the direction the Giants are able to go over the next few years.

  8. #218
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    Grant has a good write up on what the Giants will look like a few years from now. It speaks to some of those things I mentioned.

    http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/201...-the-year-2000

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by SfgiantsJD3 View Post
    The Giants have been sticking about 60-70 million a year for the last 5-6 years in the rainy day fund, I would consider that having money put aside.
    While I'm a little skeptical about the existence of the "rainy day" fund I think they've taken that excess profit and paid it back to the investors as dividens (If it really existed Cespedes would be the starting Left Fielder). But the real reason why I'm skeptical is that if you look at the new CBA every year your over a certain amount cost you a first round pick. So it isn't as though the giants can't spend, it's that if they do it to much it could wind up consing them draft picks.
    Quote Originally Posted by heimdog8 View Post
    Those are all good points. But I think a few developments can make it happen. I was using Spotrac which keeps track of MLB payrolls, and it seems clear to me that the Giants will have the ability to re-sign Cueto after this season and also extend Bumgarner fairly easily. Cain's 22 million comes off the books after this season which should help in re-signing Cueto when he opts out. Denard Span's 11 million comes off the books after 2018. Bumgarner will most likely be extended after this season so the Giants can get a better deal but a lot of Bumgarner's contract can be paid after Samardzija's 19.8 million comes off the books in 2020 since Bum is technically under contract until 2019.

    You mentioned the Giants need to have the money to keep their own guys and fill other spots. That's true, which is why it's important that certain young guys develop to fill as you mentioned the CF spot.

    So my assumptions in order for the Giants to be in on Harper/Machado in the winter of 2018 a few things have to happen:

    1. Parker/Williamson are at least servicable league average LF. Both will be cheap for the next 4-5 years.

    2. Duggar/Slater/Reynolds, one of which becomes serviceable in CF. Span hasn't exactly left a high standard. One of these 3 prospects becoming an everyday CF would be huge for this team. Duggar or Slater may even get playing time this year if Span gets hurt.

    3. Christian Arroyo developing into a league average player giving the Giants more flexibility at 3B or at 2B if Panik struggles/hurt.

    4. Tyler Beede/Ty Blach developing into serviceable 4th or 5th starters that can be relied upon. The Giants have Bum/Cueto/Shark/Moore locked up through the end of 2019 season. So having Beede/Blach as servicable pitchers insure the Giants in case of injury or bad performance.

    5. The entire bullpen besides Melancon is on great value deals for the Giants. If Law, Strickland, Okert, Osich, Kontos, and others can be relied upon, the Giants will maintain huge financial flexibility to invest in a start player like a Harper/Machado


    It's fun to watch the development of these players because as you can see it has great impact on the direction the Giants are able to go over the next few years.
    It's certainly not that the giants can't afford to spend big, but there is kind of a lot of if's there espcially in regards to the OF. There's the chance that in 2 years the giants may have to replace their entire OF which makes sinking 40 million in Harper difficult.

    Well Arroyo panning out kind of defetes the need for signing Machado though. Another thing to keep in mind is that Nolan Arenado becomes a free agnet the year after Harper and Machado.
    Last edited by ciaban; Yesterday at 02:34 PM.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    While I'm a little skeptical about the existence of the "rainy day" fund I think they've taken that excess profit and paid it back to the investors as dividens (If it really existed Cespedes would be the starting Left Fielder). But the real reason why I'm skeptical is that if you look at the new CBA every year your over a certain amount cost you a first round pick. So it isn't as though the giants can't spend, it's that if they do it to much it could wind up consing them draft picks.

    It's certainly not that the giants can't afford to spend big, but there is kind of a lot of if's there espcially in regards to the OF. There's the chance that in 2 years the giants may have to replace their entire OF which makes sinking 40 million in Harper difficult.

    Well Arroyo panning out kind of defetes the need for signing Machado though. Another thing to keep in mind is that Nolan Arenado becomes a free agnet the year after Harper and Machado.
    And I believe Arenado is from California and he dominates in the Giants ballpark. He'd be a good fit. The Giants are trying to create some versatility with Arroyo. He can play 3B but also 2B and perhaps LF. The Giants could easily fit Machado or Arenado on the roster and still find a place for Arroyo in the lineup. Or Arroyo could be used as trade bait for another cost controlled outfielder depending on needs. I agree I had a lot of assumptions. The cool thing is the Giants have strength in the minor leagues/prospects for once in the outfield which as you mentioned might need all 3 positions replaced soon. Harper or Christian Yelich could be the star piece with 2 of the 7 top guys below stepping up. Keep in mind the guys below still have 2 years of development until they'll need to be truly counted on. (Besides Parker)

    1. Parker
    2. Williamson
    3. Duggar
    4. Slater
    5. Reynolds
    6. Quinn
    7. Fabian

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leandres_sf View Post
    The worst part about the Smith injury is how it changes everyone else role. Hopefully Law is given the chance to be a true 8th inning guy and can prove to get both righties & lefties out. That will keep Strickland & Osich in the 7th. We have an excellent closer, just need the bridge to Melancon to be excellent too.
    All it takes is 1 injury or a wild hair up Bochy's *** and all of a sudden Guerrin is out there in the 8th on a permanent basis. Part of my worry is injury concerns. We just lost a guy that could had been relied upon for the 8th. The other worry is how Bochy uses the BP. How many times did he run Casilla, Lopez, and Guerrin out there in important situations when they had failed over and over? How many times did we see Law get pulled in the 7th because of a lefty batter only to have whoever come in and walk the next batter? We are now 1 injury from being in a worse position than last year just to save a few million.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


    #MakeAmericaPeeAgain

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by downsos View Post
    All it takes is 1 injury or a wild hair up Bochy's *** and all of a sudden Guerrin is out there in the 8th on a permanent basis. Part of my worry is injury concerns. We just lost a guy that could had been relied upon for the 8th. The other worry is how Bochy uses the BP. How many times did he run Casilla, Lopez, and Guerrin out there in important situations when they had failed over and over? How many times did we see Law get pulled in the 7th because of a lefty batter only to have whoever come in and walk the next batter? We are now 1 injury from being in a worse position than last year just to save a few million.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    I was hoping that Gearrin would find his way off the roster if they only carried 12 pitchers to start the season. Smith's injury pretty much eliminates the chances that will happen unless a NRI guy takes his spot. David Hernandez possibly could have, but he's been terrible. The guy that intrigues me is Neil Ramirez, throws mid 90s with a high 80s slider, has an 0.82 WHIP & 12 K in 7.1 IP this spring. I'd much rather give him a shot.







  13. #223
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    Nunez with a bum shoulder. Would like to see if Hwang can deal with big league pitching. Hill would also be interesting. Aches and pains, aches and pains.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leandres_sf View Post
    I was hoping that Gearrin would find his way off the roster if they only carried 12 pitchers to start the season. Smith's injury pretty much eliminates the chances that will happen unless a NRI guy takes his spot. David Hernandez possibly could have, but he's been terrible. The guy that intrigues me is Neil Ramirez, throws mid 90s with a high 80s slider, has an 0.82 WHIP & 12 K in 7.1 IP this spring. I'd much rather give him a shot.
    I was wondering about Hernandez but with these stats, I agree with you.

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