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  1. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyBrave View Post
    Apparently the rumor is now the Patriots wants pick 11 from the Saints, so very unlikely the Saints trade for him and if theh do we get pick 11 and draft a CB with that pick
    If a mythical AFC team with a #19 pick that has a shot of being trouble in the playoffs jumps in, might see the Pats making a deal for less to get him to the NFC.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  2. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    If a mythical AFC team with a #19 pick that has a shot of being trouble in the playoffs jumps in, might see the Pats making a deal for less to get him to the NFC.
    Or just match the offer, because none have more cap space than we do.

    BB doesn't make decisions based on how the other team is constructed. It's truly based solely on what's best for the Patriots and the value he feels is fair.

    Obviously he thinks highly of Butler, as he should, and that is why his demands are high. He went 4-5 years without solid CB's...I'm sure he doesn't want to go back there unless he's getting something worthwhile in return.

    I don't get why everyone here has been so reluctant to believe this and BB's leverage in this situation. He's not settling for a 2nd rounder for a premier player on his defense. And don't bring up Collins because we know that trade had more to do with Collins attitude and behavior than anything on the field. Butler is different, on the field, he does everything he is asked to do.

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  3. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I think it's pretty obvious BB won't get 11. BB I am sure is most worried of a bona fide AFC team getting Butler, that's why the yap about 32. But the obvious thing is unless somebody wants to overpay in terms of $ and draft pick for Butler he goes nowhere.
    Maybe not so obvious? You've been arguing against this for a week. As I've said repeatedly...I doubt he goes anywhere...Because nobody will offer him huge money on an offer sheet. This is playing right into BB's hands. He WANTS a team to put an offer sheet in and show Butler his value is not 5/$65. When someone does put in an offer sheet for 4/$45...BB will match that immediately. Butler gets paid. Problem solved.

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  4. #574
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    Brady's stolen SB LI game jersey has been found as well as one he wore in the SB vs the Seahawks.

    The two items were "found in the possession of a credentialed member of the international media," NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy said in a statement.

  5. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Or just match the offer, because none have more cap space than we do.
    If they think the value is good sure.

    BB doesn't make decisions based on how the other team is constructed. It's truly based solely on what's best for the Patriots and the value he feels is fair.
    It's widely believed that Collins was dealt for less then he was worth to keep him from a team where he could harm the Pats last year. Given the return I can't see a serious argument mounted against that conclusion.

    I don't get why everyone here has been so reluctant to believe this and BB's leverage in this situation. He's not settling for a 2nd rounder for a premier player on his defense. And don't bring up Collins because we know that trade had more to do with Collins attitude and behavior than anything on the field. Butler is different, on the field, he does everything he is asked to do.
    Perhaps because the Saints keep coming up and given the shape the franchise is in coughing up an 11th pick and possibly a top 5 contract for a CB (and not an overly big one) seems like a poor move for the Saints.

    The Pats smear campaign has let go that Butler is single and that his choice of friends isn't seen as a plus by the Pats - certainly not good compared to our new CB - a dedicated game film junky.

    Also, Butler can't really cover the ultra big WR's either, and that's clear given the way they use him.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  6. #576
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    It's widely believed that Collins was dealt for less then he was worth to keep him from a team where he could harm the Pats last year. Given the return I can't see a serious argument mounted against that conclusion.
    Maybe, but we'll never know.
    Perhaps because the Saints keep coming up and given the shape the franchise is in coughing up an 11th pick and possibly a top 5 contract for a CB (and not an overly big one) seems like a poor move for the Saints.
    Agreed, it is a poor move. They could arguable draft a better, cheaper CB at #11. To which I'm sure is BB's plan if that deal did go down.

    The Pats smear campaign has let go that Butler is single and that his choice of friends isn't seen as a plus by the Pats - certainly not good compared to our new CB - a dedicated game film junky.
    This is based on a Reiss article... to which he had to write a retraction and apologized publicly for writing a piece that "created more questions than answered". He specifically stated that none of this was from a source, it was just his perception of how the Patriots view players. You can throw this argument in the trash. If this were true, Gronk and many others wouldn't have last here as long as they have. I'm sure its a plus if a player has a quiet home life with family, but in no way is it a basis in which they trade players.

    Also, Butler can't really cover the ultra big WR's either, and that's clear given the way they use him
    Agreed, which he still won't have to do. We had Logan for that job. Now we have Gilmore. Butlers role is unchanged due to the signing of Gilmore.

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  7. #577
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    Seems like the market has collapsed on Hankins, DT from the Giants. He'd be worth a look at the right price IMO.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  8. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Seems like the market has collapsed on Hankins, DT from the Giants. He'd be worth a look at the right price IMO.
    Yeah last I heard he was looking for a 4 year deal at $8-10 per. That's definitely not going to happen, never was. I love the player, I think he's underrated, but I doubt we give a serious look. I think BB is happy with what he has. No true need for another big bodied DL. Unless the market totally collapses and we bring him in for camp to see if he can beat anyone out, I doubt it happens.

    The DT/NT market this offseason was just odd. Looking at what Campbell got vs. Poe is kind of striking to me. I know Poe's numbers have dropped in recent years, but he still seems to be a disruptive presence in the middle despite not putting numbers up. I would have thought he'd have gotten better offers. (though I'd still take $8 mil in a heartbeat). And then Campbells contract was just ridiculous, I knew it'd be high but I never thought he'd get that much. Then again, when you're the Jags, you kind of have to overpay to get someone in there.

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  9. #579
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    RB Tyler Gaffney was released today. Not a major move, but timing seems odd, at a position that is very thin at the moment. I would expect this means another move at RB is coming soon

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  10. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Maybe not so obvious? You've been arguing against this for a week. As I've said repeatedly...I doubt he goes anywhere...Because nobody will offer him huge money on an offer sheet. This is playing right into BB's hands. He WANTS a team to put an offer sheet in and show Butler his value is not 5/$65. When someone does put in an offer sheet for 4/$45...BB will match that immediately. Butler gets paid. Problem solved.
    Discussing that Butler may go elsewhere is not at odds with saying he's not going to get overpaid.

    I wouldn't presume to assure that BB will match a 4/$45 deal as you do if the payout is the 11th pick.
    I am not a con artist! I am a businessman! I have a big brain and I'm good at making deals! People are just jealous of my BIG BRAIN! BAD!

    Guess who? The future X-Presdent...

  11. #581
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    Aust is online now BUTLER!!!! / DOWN 25!!!!!
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    Would you guys pull the trigger for #32+#42?
    (2/1/2015) (2/5/2017)

    HOLY ****



  12. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aust View Post
    Would you guys pull the trigger for #32+#42?
    All depends on what the Saints are offering Butler. If their offer is 4/$45 then no...I'm making them submit an offer sheet with that and then matching it.

    If their offer is 5/$65 then yes I would take that in a heartbeat.

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  13. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aust:31526681
    Would you guys pull the trigger for #32+#42?

    I would! because i firmly do not believe Butler is NOT gonna do good in another system. And this draft is deep in CB, and i would probably prefer a rookie CB cheap for 4 to 5 yrs and get a high 2nd rd pick for another DE or TE

  14. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4:31526696
    Quote Originally Posted by Aust View Post
    Would you guys pull the trigger for #32+#42?
    All depends on what the Saints are offering Butler. If their offer is 4/$45 then no...I'm making them submit an offer sheet with that and then matching it.

    If their offer is 5/$65 then yes I would take that in a heartbeat.

    I do also agree with this

  15. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyBrave View Post
    I would! because i firmly do not believe Butler is NOT gonna do good in another system. And this draft is deep in CB, and i would probably prefer a rookie CB cheap for 4 to 5 yrs and get a high 2nd rd pick for another DE or TE
    Drafting CB's is no sure bet, even in a deep draft. BB has struggled drafting at a few positions over his career, at the top of that list is CB and WR. His only real hit on a CB was Asante Samuel. He's drafted a half dozen since and all flopped. He's had more success with undrafted free agent CB's (Butler, LeBlanc, Roberts, Jones) in recent years. I'd much rather role with the sure bet in Butler, as long as his deal is reasonable. I think the most I would pay for him is 4/$50. Anything more is too much, so he may be a goner anyways.

    We don't have many other needs (mostly back up/ST spots) or roster space (5 spots by my count) so the extra picks aren't all that valuable to me. We could always trade them into next year, but I'm in win now mode and would rather invest our assets into this season. The 2 picks won't make near the impact that Butler would for this season...Going forward, its very well possible they could have a larger impact than Butler but at the moment that is not my concern.

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