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  1. #556
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    Expanding...Many here are worried about paying Butler and Gilmore. We have a ton of cap space to do both without hindering anything. I think the wise move would be to give Butler his extension but front load a massive portion of it to this season.

    This way we leave the franchise tag open for Jimmy in the offseason and next years Butler cap hit will be reasonable enough that we can fit Jimmy into our available cap space next offseason.

    City of Champions

  2. #557
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    ^Yes. Bringing back Butler makes us a good amount better on defense. Letting Eric Rowe stay in his role from last year and not having to rely on Jones/Coleman/rookie in a pass happy league would be huge. With this much cap space, it seems like the obvious move. Hopefully Belichick is just waiting to match the deal.

  3. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Expanding...Many here are worried about paying Butler and Gilmore. We have a ton of cap space to do both without hindering anything. I think the wise move would be to give Butler his extension but front load a massive portion of it to this season.

    This way we leave the franchise tag open for Jimmy in the offseason and next years Butler cap hit will be reasonable enough that we can fit Jimmy into our available cap space next offseason.

    Having Butler and Gilmore on the team would be great and leaving room for Jimmy next year is too, but from the way Butler appears to want top shelf FA money now as a RFA, I think he only comes back on his $3.91 tender for one year. The Pats will get a comp pick when he bolts.

    He remains unsigned after talking with the Saints so now he probably understands that giving up that kind of money, and a 1st, is too rich for teams or at least one team. Maybe he gets that from some other team but as of now I think he'll wait for his big pay day. I think the Pats can win a SB with or without him but it'll be easier with him.

  4. #559
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    Having Butler and Gilmore on the team would be great and leaving room for Jimmy next year is too, but from the way Butler appears to want top shelf FA money now as a RFA, I think he only comes back on his $3.91 tender for one year. The Pats will get a comp pick when he bolts.
    Perfectly fine by me. But I don't see why he wouldn't accept a deal that's somewhere around Gilmore's. We could front load the hell out of it and have his first year cap hit be $16 mil.

    He remains unsigned after talking with the Saints so now he probably understands that giving up that kind of money, and a 1st, is too rich for teams or at least one team. Maybe he gets that from some other team but as of now I think he'll wait for his big pay day. I think the Pats can win a SB with or without him but it'll be easier with him.
    Exactly what I've been saying. He's not going anywhere. I'm fine with 1 year with him or giving him an extension close to Gilmores contract. Either way we win. He's not going to force his way out of town because BB isn't going to accept anything less than a tender offer for him...because he doesn't have to and he shouldn't. Been saying this all along.

    City of Champions

  5. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    Perfectly fine by me. But I don't see why he wouldn't accept a deal that's somewhere around Gilmore's. We could front load the hell out of it and have his first year cap hit be $16 mil.



    Exactly what I've been saying. He's not going anywhere. I'm fine with 1 year with him or giving him an extension close to Gilmores contract. Either way we win. He's not going to force his way out of town because BB isn't going to accept anything less than a tender offer for him...because he doesn't have to and he shouldn't. Been saying this all along.


    Next year the Pats FA picture isn't too bad but, while they could extend Butler for Gilmore money, I don't think they want to tie up that much space on two corners when one will be covering other team's #2 WR or worse at times.

    Regarding next year...Solder and Jimmy are the two biggest issues.

  6. #561
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    It's such a pass happy league. If we have the cap to extend him, why not? Having two lock down corners only makes us better.

  7. #562
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    Next year the Pats FA picture isn't too bad but, while they could extend Butler for Gilmore money, I don't think they want to tie up that much space on two corners when one will be covering other team's #2 WR or worse at times.
    At the moment NE ranks #16 in the league for 2017 cap dollars for CB's. If we front loaded as I mentioned to $16 mil cap hit this year...We'd be #1 this year, but could easily afford that. And with the hit coming in year 1, by year 2,3,4,5 we're back in the #10-15 range league wide.

    Regarding next year...Solder and Jimmy are the two biggest issues.
    Add Gronk and Brady to this list. Brady's cap hit will jump to $22M next year...They won't take that high of a cap hit for anyone. So my guess is Brady restructures next year (unless he decides to retire after winning SB52)

    Gronks cap hit jumps to $11M - trading him or cutting him saves $7M and I think they would seriously entertain that savings, plus whatever the get in return for him. Hopefully he's healthy all year so they can maximize that return for him in a trade.

    City of Champions

  8. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakmont_4 View Post
    I wanted to update this with the signings of Burkhead and Hightower (which came in at different numbers than expected)

    According to Spotrac we have $26 mil in cap space...But it's actually a bit more based on who I think actually makes the roster (Spotrac includes guys like Freeny and Waddle who I don't think make the cut)

    Total Cap – $173.2M
    Total Contracts - $140.61
    Total Cap space - $32.69 (w/ rookie pool $28.72)
    Rookie pool – $3.97M

    Roster spots open – 5
    RB (1)
    OL (1)
    LB (1)
    DE/OLB (1)
    CB (1)

    QB – (3) Brady ($14M) / Garroppollo ($1.1M) / Brissett ($0.8) - $15.9M
    RB1 – (3) Burkhead ($3.15) / Lewis ($1.5M) / _________ - $4.65M
    3RDB – (1) White ($0.8M) - $0.8M
    FB - (1) Develin ($1.2M) - $1.2M
    WR1 – (1) Cooks ($1.6M) - $1.6M
    WR2 – (3) Hogan ($3.0M) / Mitchell ($0.7M) / Slater (ST) ($1.7M) - $5.4M
    SLT – (2) Edelman ($5.6M) / Amendola ($7.79M) - $13.39M
    TE1 - (1) Gronkowski ($6.6M) - $6.6M
    TE2 (2) Allen ($4.9M) / Lengal ($0.5M) - $5.4
    LT (2) Solder ($11.2M) / Fleming ($1.8M) - $13.0M
    LG (1) Thuney ($0.8M) - $0.8M
    OC - (2) ______ / Andrews ($0.6M) – $0.6M
    RG - (2) Mason ($0.7M) / Jackson ($0.7M) - $1.4M
    RT - (1) Cannan ($3.4M) - $3.4M

    25 Players - $74.14M

    RDE – (2) Flowers ($0.8M) / Ealy ($0.9M) - $1.7M
    NT – (2) Branch ($3.1M) / Valentine ($0.7M) - $3.8M
    LDE – (2) Brown ($2.1M) / Guy ($2.6M) - $4.7M
    SLB – (2) Ninkovich ($2.3M) / __________ - $2.3M
    ILB – (2) Hightower ($4.46M) / ___________ - $4.46M
    ILB (2) – Van Noy ($1.1M) / Roberts (ST) ($0.6M) - $1.7M
    WSL (1) – McClellin ($3.2M) - $3.2M
    CB1 (2) – Gilmore ($8.6) / Jones (ST) ($0.6M) - $9.2M
    CB2 (2) – Butler ($3.91M) / Rowe ($0.9M) - $4.81M
    NCB (2) – _________ / C. Jones ($0.9M) - $0.9M
    FS (3) – McCourty ($10.9) / Harmon ($3.5M) / King (ST) ($0.6M) - $15.0M
    SS (3) – Chung ($5.4M) / Richards (ST) ($1.0M) / Ebner (ST) ($1.2M) - $7.6M

    25 Players - $59.37M

    K (1) – Gostkowski ($4.5M) - $4.5M
    P (1) – Allen ($1.9M) - $1.9M
    LS (1) – Cardona ($0.7M) – $0.7M

    3 Players - $7.1M


    All this doesn't even include a restructure by Amendola and I did include Butler on his tender number

    We have 5 roster spots up for grabs IMO. A **** load of cap room which includes signing all of our draft picks. The draft picks alone could fill the 5 roster spots

    So this begs the question... What do we do with the $28.72 mil in cap room? I figure if you leave the $8.72 to carry into the season for in season moves...We have $20 mil to freely spend...
    I wouldn't be surprised if we sit on a lot of cap room, TBH. It rolls over into next year. After the season we have cap spikes for:

    Brady ($8M increase)
    Gilmore ($4M increase)
    Hightower ($5M increase)
    Cannon ($2.5M increase)
    McCourty ($1M increase)
    Alan Branch ($1M increase)

    In terms of free agents we have:

    Butler ($3.9M off the books)
    Edleman ($5.75M off the books)
    Solder ($11M off the books)
    Amendola ($7.8M off the books)
    Burkhead ($3.1M off the books)
    White ($0.8M off the books)
    Ninkovich ($2.4M off the books)
    Lewis ($1.5M off the books)
    Van Noy ($1.1M off the books)
    Jimmy G ($1.1M off the books)

    So yeah we have a lot of money coming off the books, but all of those guys are ones to replace. Only Amendola as a 5th WR I would say could go without opening up a sizable hole (assuming Burkhead takes on the lead back role like his contract seems for).

    If we really plan on tagging Jimmy G then we need to roll over all the cap room we can. Especially because I don't think Brady will want to renegotiate his deal to help accommodate us investing over 15% of the cap on his eventual successor.


    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

  9. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if we sit on a lot of cap room, TBH. It rolls over into next year. After the season we have cap spikes for:

    Brady ($8M increase)
    Gilmore ($4M increase)
    Hightower ($5M increase)
    Cannon ($2.5M increase)
    McCourty ($1M increase)
    Alan Branch ($1M increase)

    In terms of free agents we have:

    Butler ($3.9M off the books)
    Edleman ($5.75M off the books)
    Solder ($11M off the books)
    Amendola ($7.8M off the books)
    Burkhead ($3.1M off the books)
    White ($0.8M off the books)
    Ninkovich ($2.4M off the books)
    Lewis ($1.5M off the books)
    Van Noy ($1.1M off the books)
    Jimmy G ($1.1M off the books)

    So yeah we have a lot of money coming off the books, but all of those guys are ones to replace. Only Amendola as a 5th WR I would say could go without opening up a sizable hole (assuming Burkhead takes on the lead back role like his contract seems for).

    If we really plan on tagging Jimmy G then we need to roll over all the cap room we can. Especially because I don't think Brady will want to renegotiate his deal to help accommodate us investing over 15% of the cap on his eventual successor.
    Right, but included in our current level of cap space is a $6 mil carryover from last year...So I don't think you can carry that over again. It would just dissipate. That brings us down to $22 mil to carry over (still good)

    We have $40 mil in cap space in 2018...That includes all of the cap raises you listed.

    10 Free Agents that you listed, say half come back (if that), even that may be a stretch.
    Most likely to come back
    Jimmy G
    Van Noy?
    White

    Somewhat likely (cost dependent)
    Solder
    Edelman
    Burkhead
    Lewis

    Unlikely
    Butler
    Ninkovich
    Amendola


    The Brady/Garroppolo situation will be interesting and there's many ways it could unfold. But one thing I know for sure. They're not going to pay Brady $22 mil and franchise Jimmy at $24 mil...So something's going to have to give... I'd set aside $25 mil for the QB situation...They're not going to pay out more than that to one or both. My guess is Brady restructures to get his cap hit to around $14 mil. Jimmy gets an extension that if back loaded and has a cap hit of around $10 mil in 2018. $24 mil combined cap hit.

    $40 mil would be enough to bring back the likely and somewhat likely to come back players pretty easily. You still have a full stock of draft picks. And a little left over for minor free agents...None of this even takes into account and restructuring which is a regular occurrence with BB in the offseason.

    So still not convinced here.

    City of Champions

  10. #565
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    I wonder if Butler did reach an agreement but can't sign with NO due to the 11th pick kicking in, so they are working out a deal, then Butler can sign.

    OR:

    What if BB asked NO to show interest in NO, but when it came time to making an offer, NO offered a very small contract and Butler in disgust left, and now BB is waiting for Butler to settle down and sign the tender.

    Even if Butler comes back for 1 year, with JG perhaps taking the tag, Butler might be gone.

    Still to have him makes Pats looks like even money to take home another.

    I'm not surprised anymore to see people talk about how deserving Butler is, and he's getting paid chump change and we ought to take care of him - but how did BB build this team/org? By keeping old guys or paying other guys more than he has too? He's an arch bastard. Easily the best NFL Coach and probably the best GM since 2000. That doesn't just happen.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    told you all since 2010 he was a toolbag.....

  11. #566
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    The fact is BB holds the power and he does not have to take anything less then the 11th pick, and there is no rush, so if im BB i sitting here waiting for either them to offer there 11th pick, or sign Butler to a Tender which will be far less money then he could get as a unrestricted Free agent, amd maybe BB matches it and we get Butler for Logan Ryan Money, because i do not see the saints signing a mega deal and then giving a 1st rd pick to us, that we would way to much for Butler, in a CB heavy draft!

  12. #567
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    Nick Mangold ? If he's healthy and not asking too much, he'd be a nice upgrade up on the line.

  13. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbyWallstreet View Post
    Nick Mangold ? If he's healthy and not asking too much, he'd be a nice upgrade up on the line.
    Maybe as a camp body. He's been going downhill since 2010, still real good in 2011, and then down down down.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    told you all since 2010 he was a toolbag.....

  14. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyBrave View Post
    The fact is BB holds the power and he does not have to take anything less then the 11th pick, and there is no rush, so if im BB i sitting here waiting for either them to offer there 11th pick, or sign Butler to a Tender which will be far less money then he could get as a unrestricted Free agent, amd maybe BB matches it and we get Butler for Logan Ryan Money, because i do not see the saints signing a mega deal and then giving a 1st rd pick to us, that we would way to much for Butler, in a CB heavy draft!
    I think it's pretty obvious BB won't get 11. BB I am sure is most worried of a bona fide AFC team getting Butler, that's why the yap about 32. But the obvious thing is unless somebody wants to overpay in terms of $ and draft pick for Butler he goes nowhere.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    told you all since 2010 he was a toolbag.....

  15. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368:31524424
    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyBrave View Post
    The fact is BB holds the power and he does not have to take anything less then the 11th pick, and there is no rush, so if im BB i sitting here waiting for either them to offer there 11th pick, or sign Butler to a Tender which will be far less money then he could get as a unrestricted Free agent, amd maybe BB matches it and we get Butler for Logan Ryan Money, because i do not see the saints signing a mega deal and then giving a 1st rd pick to us, that we would way to much for Butler, in a CB heavy draft!
    I think it's pretty obvious BB won't get 11. BB I am sure is most worried of a bona fide AFC team getting Butler, that's why the yap about 32. But the obvious thing is unless somebody wants to overpay in terms of $ and draft pick for Butler he goes nowhere.

    Apparently the rumor is now the Patriots wants pick 11 from the Saints, so very unlikely the Saints trade for him and if theh do we get pick 11 and draft a CB with that pick

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