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View Poll Results: Which Team Wins in a 7-Game Series

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  • 1st seed

    10 62.50%
  • 2nd seed

    4 25.00%
  • GMs click here

    2 12.50%
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Results 46 to 60 of 66
  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    I'd love to see a game where people actually get punished for overbidding on stars instead of rewarded. I still remember Shammy grading out my buy of Shaq as a "C" and an overpay and in a way he was right but I couldn't help but roll my eyes a little because I knew he was going to take me far in the game. The reality is that people need to start bidding +$100 on all the group 1 guys or it won't happen. The strategy is top 10 player or bust because the talent pool for role players is just too deep.
    What it comes down to is there being enough people making smart bids to punish those guys. Part of the issue is everyone sees the prices for top guys and uses that as the gauge for the next rounds spending instead of adjusting it more because they are getting lesser talents. Due to this it will take major overspending that first round to actually have an impact because I am not sure people will ever prioritize spending to win as a group (aka punishing top spenders by collectively not overspending themselves) over spending to get specific guys they want.

    I agree with what you say about those guys being key and unlikely to win without them. Now people can adjust their overspending to round 1 so we might get that range where people are actually overspending for top stars to the point it might give well rounded teams a chance. I think we might see Jordan for like 120 or something next game after people adjust to these results, we now have something to compare our initial bids to at least. You comment on 100 plus for the first round kinda goes along that line too, people should adjust. The results should tell people to bid more at the top next time which would even things up some throughout. Not sure if it will be enough to truly punish those top tier spenders but it should at least get better next game (regular auction game I was the only guy to get a top 5 and another top 10 player I believe?, this time we had about 4 teams if you include mine with oscar likely just outside top 10).

  2. #47
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    Congrats Valade

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    If you're a proficient jump shooter you will likely be able to shoot a 3pt shot especially the more you do it and get acclimated to it.
    Not comfortable with terms like likely but I guess....

    Sorry, D'Antoni in a mess of a situation in LA for Pau doesn't suddenly invalidate the dozens of bigs who are spontaneously developing 3pt shots.
    It was a mess precisely because Pau couldn't space the floor. Invalidate? You've yet to validate it yourself, the dozens of bigs developing 3pt shots is my point as well, that they worked on it, it wasn't always there. Also, what other aspect of the game can you simply chalk up to a "mess of a situation" aside from 3pt shooting? Lots of guys in bad situations retain their shooting ability.

    So Marc Gasol just worked his butt off all offseason shooting only 3's and suddenly is raining them? Nah, I'm betting he was probably pretty decent to begin with on account of his natural shooting touch.
    I disagree, having the shooting touch doesn't hurt if thats all your trying to say.

    If you're referring to the years they moved the 3pt line forward then you're also wrong there as the numbers I listed were prior to that change. He shot even better (40.4%) from 3 when they moved the line up. He was a decent 3pt shooter with the normal line and they certainly didn't move the line up between the regular season and the playoffs every season from 91-93 so MJ could shoot 38.7% in those postseasons.
    What? 94-95 to 96-97 was when MJ shot 40% from 3, when the line was pushed back to its original distance he suddenly dropped to 23%. He shot 34% in the 4 years prior to that rule change with 2 of the 4 years being a substandard 27% and 31%. Your point is taken about his playoff marksmanship tho.

    Yes, Elgin Baylor could shoot:

    "He was one of the most spectacular shooters the game has ever known," Baylor's longtime teammate Jerry West told HOOP magazine in 1992. "I hear people talking about forwards today and I haven't seen many that can compare with him."

    Bill Sharman played against Baylor and coached him in his final years with the Lakers. "I say without reservation that Elgin Baylor is the greatest cornerman who ever played pro basketball," he told the Los Angeles Times at Baylor's retirement in 1971.


    http://www.nba.com/history/players/baylor_bio.html

    There are numerous other references to his jump shot or midrange game. Did he have range out to the 3pt line? I don't honestly know. But to act like the dude flat couldn't shoot a jump shot (as is thought here) is erroneous.
    Yeah I was talking about distance shooting. Whats the Sharman quote about?

    I mean, Jerry West knows a thing or two about shooting and certainly from his resume knows how to judge talent.

    I think the reason he couldn't space for Wilt was that he was so ball dominant and wasn't as much of a catch and shoot guy. We also have to consider this was what 36 by that point. He was a 78% FT shooter for his career and eclipsed 80% several times. Just as a side question, can anyone name someone who could shoot 80% from the line and wasn't at least a decent midrange shooter?
    He was 34 and insistent on clogging the lane. He was mostly known for his acrobatic finishes from the same areas that Wilt loved to operate from. Its curious that his ft% was around his career average those years and when he suffered his career altering injury his ft% only improved. I suppose he could have declined, when MJ lost his legs during his Wizards years he was an AWFUL 3pt shooter so maybe the same applies for Elgin, dont know about the pre-Wilt years since it couldn't have been a problem since players were spacing for him those days.

    I didn't leave my bed, because I was like, 'Man, if I walk outside somebody might just try to hit me with their car or say anything negative to me

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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Not comfortable with terms like likely but I guess....

    It was a mess precisely because Pau couldn't space the floor. Invalidate? You've yet to validate it yourself, the dozens of bigs developing 3pt shots is my point as well, that they worked on it, it wasn't always there. Also, what other aspect of the game can you simply chalk up to a "mess of a situation" aside from 3pt shooting? Lots of guys in bad situations retain their shooting ability.

    I disagree, having the shooting touch doesn't hurt if thats all your trying to say.

    What? 94-95 to 96-97 was when MJ shot 40% from 3, when the line was pushed back to its original distance he suddenly dropped to 23%. He shot 34% in the 4 years prior to that rule change with 2 of the 4 years being a substandard 27% and 31%. Your point is taken about his playoff marksmanship tho.

    Yeah I was talking about distance shooting. Whats the Sharman quote about?

    He was 34 and insistent on clogging the lane. He was mostly known for his acrobatic finishes from the same areas that Wilt loved to operate from. Its curious that his ft% was around his career average those years and when he suffered his career altering injury his ft% only improved. I suppose he could have declined, when MJ lost his legs during his Wizards years he was an AWFUL 3pt shooter so maybe the same applies for Elgin, dont know about the pre-Wilt years since it couldn't have been a problem since players were spacing for him those days.
    The only thing I think we really disagree on is 3pt shooting in regards to bigs. I think it is very easy to develop a competent 3pt shot with very little practice if you are a natural shooter or have a good shooting touch and form.

    Marc Gasol went from having 0 ability at 3's to being able to shoot 3 a game and hit 39.5% of them in one offseason? This begs the question of why everyone in the league isn't a 39.5% 3pt shooter if all it takes is a single offseason to turn someone who had no ability to shoot a 3 into such a deadly sniper.

    The reason is because Gasol didn't need a ton of practice to get good at it because he could already do it fairly well if asked since he was such a good shooter to begin with.

    Boogie went from 0 ability to shoot a 3 to 33% on 3 shots in one offseason and this year is at 38.4% on even more shots. Horford went from shooting .5 a game to 3 on 34% shooting. Millsap went from .5 a game to 3 per game at 34% (and has been a 33.9% shooter since then). LMA went from not shooting them at all to 1.5 per game at 35%.

    Again all of those were in a single off-season. It's not like we saw years and years of growth and progression and practice at the craft. It was "can't shoot" one year and "quality 3pt shooter" the very next. Either learning to shoot a 3 is far easier than we think or these players (and many others) don't need much practice to get good at shooting them because they are already such adept shooters they were fairly decent at shooting them to begin with.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Congrats Valade
    Thanks. First All-Time victory in 4 attempts. 1st Rd exit, 2nd Rd exit, Finals Loss, Finals Win. Upward trajectory!

    DHop had a good team and KoB and Tredigs had very good arguments.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    The only thing I think we really disagree on is 3pt shooting in regards to bigs. I think it is very easy to develop a competent 3pt shot with very little practice if you are a natural shooter or have a good shooting touch and form.
    I just dont know how we would prove that. I personally believe it depends on the individual but yeah, a good midrange shooter has a better chance of increasing his range than a complete non-shooter. Then again we've had horrendous mid range shooters become great 3pt shooters and we've seen guys like Richard Hamilton who have mastered the mid range but have struggled to be as prolific from 3pt shot with their usage.

    Marc Gasol went from having 0 ability at 3's to being able to shoot 3 a game and hit 39.5% of them in one offseason? This begs the question of why everyone in the league isn't a 39.5% 3pt shooter if all it takes is a single offseason to turn someone who had no ability to shoot a 3 into such a deadly sniper.

    The reason is because Gasol didn't need a ton of practice to get good at it because he could already do it fairly well if asked since he was such a good shooter to begin with.
    I doubt you know how long it took for him to develop it, there are players who have admitted practicing shots but not being comfortable with them in game until years later. Its not like Memphis hasn't had GLARING deficiencies with its spacing that Gasol could have helped with FAR sooner, its not like they dont have one of the leading analytics fields which would stress the importance of such a shot.


    Boogie went from 0 ability to shoot a 3 to 33% on 3 shots in one offseason and this year is at 38.4% on even more shots. Horford went from shooting .5 a game to 3 on 34% shooting. Millsap went from .5 a game to 3 per game at 34% (and has been a 33.9% shooter since then). LMA went from not shooting them at all to 1.5 per game at 35%.
    Yup, point? You seem to think this proves anything when I know all this to be true in my argument as well. Millsap is a great example since hes declined with his shot. Not really seeing your LMA point considering he initially began taking them in Portland then went away from it in y1 with the spurs and though his %'s are up in Y2, hes still taking them with fewer frequency than his Portland year. I remember you asking me about the effect this could have on his teams spacing/efficiency, IIRC I think I told you it depends on how it effects the rest of his game. Some players would suffer by adding the shot simply because it takes them further away from the basket where there slashing could be effected.

    Again all of those were in a single off-season. It's not like we saw years and years of growth and progression and practice at the craft. It was "can't shoot" one year and "quality 3pt shooter" the very next. Either learning to shoot a 3 is far easier than we think or these players (and many others) don't need much practice to get good at shooting them because they are already such adept shooters they were fairly decent at shooting them to begin with.
    Again, I dont believe you know how long they trained the shot nor have you provided any sort of correlation.

    I didn't leave my bed, because I was like, 'Man, if I walk outside somebody might just try to hit me with their car or say anything negative to me

    -Beta B KD

  7. #52
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    great game guys



  8. #53
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    man I seriously underestimated MJ in this. gg Valade

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhopisthename View Post
    man I seriously underestimated MJ in this. gg Valade
    Has an MJ team ever lost? Or not at least made the Final (if they found a way to surround him terribly)? I'd be curious. His skill coupled with his legend is just too much in these things. In the only re-draft I've done on here MJ was not available as an option.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    Has an MJ team ever lost? Or not at least made the Final (if they found a way to surround him terribly)? I'd be curious. His skill coupled with his legend is just too much in these things. In the only re-draft I've done on here MJ was not available as an option.
    It's usually Shaq who dominates these. For the draft we have the MJ rule where normally the draft is snaked so 1st pick gets bottom of the 2nd and top of the 3rd however for MJ the 3rd Round pick is moved to the bottom of the round. Since that started MJ barely ever makes the playoffs.

    This was an auction draft so the prevailing thought is everyone would massively overbid on MJ, but that didn't happen.

  11. #56
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    The last two MJ games his team missed the playoffs I think, I can't remember the last time he made the Finals let alone won



  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    It's usually Shaq who dominates these. For the draft we have the MJ rule where normally the draft is snaked so 1st pick gets bottom of the 2nd and top of the 3rd however for MJ the 3rd Round pick is moved to the bottom of the round. Since that started MJ barely ever makes the playoffs.

    This was an auction draft so the prevailing thought is everyone would massively overbid on MJ, but that didn't happen.
    Oh if the draft is manipulated then that's a different story. Good to hear there's at least some diversification. On paper though I could just never see most fans voting against a MJ/Dream combo. Obviously something you could never achieve in a snake draft, so major props on scoring that one (and judging by some of the epic 2 man combos I saw - including your opponent here and the Shaq/Magic team - some of the non-playoff teams in this thing must have been hot garbage from a top-end standpoint).

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    It's usually Shaq who dominates these. For the draft we have the MJ rule where normally the draft is snaked so 1st pick gets bottom of the 2nd and top of the 3rd however for MJ the 3rd Round pick is moved to the bottom of the round. Since that started MJ barely ever makes the playoffs.

    This was an auction draft so the prevailing thought is everyone would massively overbid on MJ, but that didn't happen.
    honestly before this started I thought 100 mill was just on the cusp of being an overbid, but after watching you walk through shaq/magic and duncan/wilt I think it is probably an underbid. If people can buy Jordan scoring 40 and locking someone like Magic down then honestly he is worth it. What bothers me is why doesn't Wilt get that kind of love?

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhopisthename View Post
    honestly before this started I thought 100 mill was just on the cusp of being an overbid, but after watching you walk through shaq/magic and duncan/wilt I think it is probably an underbid. If people can buy Jordan scoring 40 and locking someone like Magic down then honestly he is worth it. What bothers me is why doesn't Wilt get that kind of love?
    I thought he'd go for like $120 mil to be honest.

    While it's nice to think MJ walked through everyone it was the combo of MJ and Hakeem. If I'd had say MJ/Ewing I likely lose to Magic/Shaq.

    I think the reason with Wilt is that there are so many great C's it's harder for one to shine at such a lopsided level. There is a sizable drop off from MJ to any other SG and a huge drop off after the first 3-4. Consider the final 6 teams had Hakeem, Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Moses and Walton. Is it reasonable to expect any Center to dominate another superstar Center to the degree MJ would dominate Eddie Jones or Paul George?

    In the simplest terms, a 10 has an easier time dominating 5's and 6's than another 10 does of dominating 8's and 9's.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shammyguy3:31401567
    The last two MJ games his team missed the playoffs I think, I can't remember the last time he made the Finals let alone won
    I won with him. strangely enough I also had Alvin Robertson.


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