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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    You are going to have to shoot lower than one of their three to fifth best assets.

    If they are giving up Bregman, than they can do better than Matz. They should be going after Q if that is the case.
    God, I would hope they wouldn't.
    Matz has more years under control.
    A better strikeout pitcher
    And a bigger upside
    Younger
    Bregman is a very good prospect, but Matz has been solid already in MLB

    The Astros need to do something because they look weak in their rotation


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  2. #17
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    Name one realistic trade you'd like your team to make still this off-season

    Dozier to Dodgers is just enviable I hope

    Dodgers receive: Brian Dozier

    Twins receive: Jose De Leon, Jordan Sheffield, Brendon Davis


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #18
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    Toronto is gonna trade Donaldson this year for sure.
    Shapiro wants a rebuild.

    Dodgers have turner but sure theyd deal Urias, De Leon, Montas, Pederson for him no ?

    Pirates for Glasgow, Bell, Taillon

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by WOwolfOL View Post
    Matz needs to prove he can stay healthy to have the value you figure he has, IMO
    Matz was #13 prospect in BA's 2016 top 100 prospects, Bregman was #42.

    I guess BA figures the same way.

    By the way he had a bone spur.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    God, I would hope they wouldn't.
    Matz has more years under control.
    A better strikeout pitcher
    And a bigger upside
    Younger
    Bregman is a very good prospect, but Matz has been solid already in MLB

    The Astros need to do something because they look weak in their rotation
    You're overselling your boy IMO.

    "there's no shines in my shinebox"

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon32 View Post
    Toronto is gonna trade Donaldson this year for sure.
    Shapiro wants a rebuild.

    Dodgers have turner but sure theyd deal Urias, De Leon, Montas, Pederson for him no ?
    Umm....no.

    "there's no shines in my shinebox"

  7. #22
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    It would take deGrom to get Bregman IMO. We could probably get Houston to add another complimentary piece or two in said deal, but it would basically require us giving up deGrom.

    As much as I'd love to have a good young player to potentially build around like Bregman, we are very much a win now team and trading away a proven top of the rotation arm like deGrom for a high level prospect like Bregman isn't the right move for us at the moment. If we were in more of a rebuilding mode right now, Bregman + some pieces for deGrom would be a trade that makes perfect sense for both clubs.
    Last edited by Wrigheyes4MVP; 01-10-2017 at 03:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Matz would be their 2nd best pitcher. And he is under control for 5 more years. They need pitching, Mets need a bat.
    To be honest I'll take Matz over Keuchel going forward. But that has more to do with my feelings about Keuchel than about Matz. Bregman simply has more value than Matz right now. It's not so much that you are overvaluing Matz, but more so that you are undervaluing Bregman IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    You're overselling your boy IMO.
    Who Bregman?


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    It would take deGrom to get Bregman IMO. We could probably get Houston to add another complimentary piece or two in said deal, but it would basically require us giving up deGrom.

    As much as I'd love to have a good young player to potentially build around like Bregman, we are very much a win now team and trading away a proven top of the rotation arm like deGrom for a high level prospect like Bregman isn't the right move for us at the moment. If we were in more of a rebuilding mode right now, Bregman + some pieces for deGrom would be a trade that makes perfect sense for both clubs.
    Seriously?
    deGrom?

    You are overvaluing a prospect that has 200+ at bats to an Ace of a staff.

    Bregman is a nice prospect, and was rated #42 in BA's top 100 prospects of 2016.I'm sure as hell not giving them deGrom from him plus.

    Dickey got 2 top 100 prospects, and he was a 40 year old knuckleballer.

    If Houston doesn't want to improve their starting 5, they will be looking up at Seattle and Texas again.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Matz was #13 prospect in BA's 2016 top 100 prospects, Bregman was #42.

    I guess BA figures the same way.

    By the way he had a bone spur.
    And then Bregman posted a .986 OPS between AA, AAA, and the MLB last year, at only 22 years old.

    Bregman is controlled longer, is 3 years younger than Matz, and hasn't been hurt at all.

    If the Astros are going to give up Bregman, who is one of their most valuable assets and can anchor third for the next 6 seasons. Then they better get a stud pitcher. Matz is a very nice pitcher, but he is already entering his age 26 season and missed starts last year.


    and I would easily take Q over Matz. Easily.

    Q has as good as Matz has been throughout his minor league career at the big league level. While only being one year older and only having one less year of control. Q hasn't missed a start yet.

    Q is tremendously valuable.

    Matz got hurt in August of last year, before this list came out
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2016-...value-1-to-10/

    Q was the 25th most valuable player to trade in baseball at that point.
    Matz wasn't even in the top 50.

    Bregman was 37th


    To get Bregman, you'll need to give up two players that aren't as good as Thor or deGrom.

    So Matz+Dunn and maybe another player for example.

    and I don't know why the Mets would want Bregman or why the Astros would want to move him. This isn't an obvious need for either team.

    If the Astros want a starter. They can unload Martes, Tucker, and Stubbs (or someone like that) for a torp or solid mid rotation starter.

    If the Mets want a third basemen to spell Wright, go get Todd Frazier for basically nothing and hope that Wright can rebound.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    Seriously?
    deGrom?

    You are overvaluing a prospect that has 200+ at bats to an Ace of a staff.

    Bregman is a nice prospect, and was rated #42 in BA's top 100 prospects of 2016.I'm sure as hell not giving them deGrom from him plus.

    Dickey got 2 top 100 prospects, and he was a 40 year old knuckleballer.

    If Houston doesn't want to improve their starting 5, they will be looking up at Seattle and Texas again.
    I said Bregman + others for deGrom... not a straight up deal. But the Mets aren't rebuilding so it would make little sense to do that type of deal.

    Also the Dickey trade is a poor example. We sold high on him and absolutely trade raped the Blue Jays on that one. Everyone knew it was a great deal for the Mets the moment it was announced. That was just an unbelievably one sided deal that Alderson pulled off. Same type of deal with the Dansby Swanson trade. Those deals aren't a barometer of what a fair deal should look like.
    Last edited by Wrigheyes4MVP; 01-10-2017 at 05:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    And then Bregman posted a .986 OPS between AA, AAA, and the MLB last year, at only 22 years old.

    Bregman is controlled longer, is 3 years younger than Matz, and hasn't been hurt at all.

    If the Astros are going to give up Bregman, who is one of their most valuable assets and can anchor third for the next 6 seasons. Then they better get a stud pitcher. Matz is a very nice pitcher, but he is already entering his age 26 season and missed starts last year.


    and I would easily take Q over Matz. Easily.

    Q has as good as Matz has been throughout his minor league career at the big league level. While only being one year older and only having one less year of control. Q hasn't missed a start yet.

    Q is tremendously valuable.

    Matz got hurt in August of last year, before this list came out
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2016-...value-1-to-10/

    Q was the 25th most valuable player to trade in baseball at that point.
    Matz wasn't even in the top 50.

    Bregman was 37th


    To get Bregman, you'll need to give up two players that aren't as good as Thor or deGrom.

    So Matz+Dunn and maybe another player for example.

    and I don't know why the Mets would want Bregman or why the Astros would want to move him. This isn't an obvious need for either team.

    If the Astros want a starter. They can unload Martes, Tucker, and Stubbs (or someone like that) for a torp or solid mid rotation starter.

    If the Mets want a third basemen to spell Wright, go get Todd Frazier for basically nothing and hope that Wright can rebound.
    Yeah the trade doesn't match up at all. And I do think Matz + Dunn is on the right track here. With that said, you did at one time compare Lyons to Matz so I'm think you probably under value Matz quite a bit. Matz has the upside to be a Jon Lester type one day if he can stay healthy. He has that type of upside. If we asked what his value was at the start of June of this past season, Matz would be practically untouchable. He looked that good. Then he started getting some injuries and his performance suffered. Just as he started to bounce back, he got hurt again in August. But he still has great stuff, command, athleticism, and makeup for a starting pitcher.

    I think Bregman has Trea Turner type upside. Bregman is still only 22 years old and is extremely valuable. After a rough start to his MLB career, he started to look good toward the very end. If I'm the White Sox GM I would definitely target Bregman in a Quintana deal. They could probably get a bit more out of Houston and they should absolutely try to do that, but in all honesty... for a rebuilding team I'd rather have Bregman straight up.
    Last edited by Wrigheyes4MVP; 01-10-2017 at 05:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    And then Bregman posted a .986 OPS between AA, AAA, and the MLB last year, at only 22 years old.

    Bregman is controlled longer, is 3 years younger than Matz, and hasn't been hurt at all.

    If the Astros are going to give up Bregman, who is one of their most valuable assets and can anchor third for the next 6 seasons. Then they better get a stud pitcher. Matz is a very nice pitcher, but he is already entering his age 26 season and missed starts last year.


    and I would easily take Q over Matz. Easily.

    Q has as good as Matz has been throughout his minor league career at the big league level. While only being one year older and only having one less year of control. Q hasn't missed a start yet.

    Q is tremendously valuable.

    Matz got hurt in August of last year, before this list came out
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/2016-...value-1-to-10/

    Q was the 25th most valuable player to trade in baseball at that point.
    Matz wasn't even in the top 50.

    Bregman was 37th

    To get Bregman, you'll need to give up two players that aren't as good as Thor or deGrom.

    So Matz+Dunn and maybe another player for example.

    and I don't know why the Mets would want Bregman or why the Astros would want to move him. This isn't an obvious need for either team.

    If the Astros want a starter. They can unload Martes, Tucker, and Stubbs (or someone like that) for a torp or solid mid rotation starter.

    If the Mets want a third basemen to spell Wright, go get Todd Frazier for basically nothing and hope that Wright can rebound.
    In the Texas league and the PCL. While he played in Fresno, it's still the PCL. You are overvaluing a prospect, as opposed to someone who had considerable success in the majors.

    It's an obvious need for both teams, one needs a 3rd baseman that can play different positions and the other needs pitching. As I wrote, the Astros with that rotation is looking at another 700 runs allowed, and another wasted year of Correra, Springer and Altuve.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    I said Bregman + others for deGrom... not a straight up deal. But the Mets aren't rebuilding so it would make little sense to do that type of deal.

    Also the Dickey trade is a poor example. We sold high on him and absolutely trade raped the Blue Jays on that one. Everyone knew it was a great deal for the Mets the moment it was announced. That was just an unbelievably one sided deal that Alderson pulled off. Same type of deal with the Dansby Swanson trade. Those deals aren't a barometer of what a fair deal should look like.
    Sold high on Niese also.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

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