Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 167
  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    822
    Looks like Hill has yet another minor injury. Hopefully he will not sit out again. It will be interesting to see how much money he wants considering all the reasons not to overpay him.

    1. He turns 31 in May and a long contract would push him towards the end of his career. If he begins to decline we could have a AK47 type contract that hurts the team.

    2. He is injury prone. Over his career the number of games he has missed per season is: 5,4,6,32,6,6,39,9, and this season he has missed 24 of 43 games (55%).

    3. He is definitely having a career year. He is averaging 6 more points than last year and shooting the highest FG% of his career. Can this continue? Is this just a guy playing harder for his final large contract?

    How much can we really pay a guy with these red flags. Considering how desperate we are I would still say a lot, at least on the short term. He seams to be a perfect fit for us skill and leadership wise. More than anything he helps us win. We need a PG desperately and the other options in free agency are either not as good or not going to happen. I'm hoping for the reasons I mentioned Hill resigns for a fair contract, less than 20 per year.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,294
    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    Looks like Hill has yet another minor injury. Hopefully he will not sit out again. It will be interesting to see how much money he wants considering all the reasons not to overpay him.

    1. He turns 31 in May and a long contract would push him towards the end of his career. If he begins to decline we could have a AK47 type contract that hurts the team.

    2. He is injury prone. Over his career the number of games he has missed per season is: 5,4,6,32,6,6,39,9, and this season he has missed 24 of 43 games (55%).

    3. He is definitely having a career year. He is averaging 6 more points than last year and shooting the highest FG% of his career. Can this continue? Is this just a guy playing harder for his final large contract?

    How much can we really pay a guy with these red flags. Considering how desperate we are I would still say a lot, at least on the short term. He seams to be a perfect fit for us skill and leadership wise. More than anything he helps us win. We need a PG desperately and the other options in free agency are either not as good or not going to happen. I'm hoping for the reasons I mentioned Hill resigns for a fair contract, less than 20 per year.
    I agree Hill's injuries should raise some red flags, not because I don't trust Hill, but because his body may just be starting to wear out on him. I think that is where we "hope" Exum comes into play. Someone who can share the PG spot with Hill. Reduce Hill's minutes, keep him healthy and let him play during crunch time. I think that was the plan this year, but Exum has been bad this year. Mack is not the answer. Neto has been pretty good, so not sure if that shows how good Neto is or how bad the rest of our team has been.

    We can't make hill a max contract player, but based on his play, there may be a team out there that overpays him because there are a good amount of teams looking for a PG and Hill's numbers (outside of injuries) have been phenomonal this year.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    1,353
    I don't know about that, Hill HAS played great this year, but he didn't play great the year before, sadly you would think the teams would think about this before offering Hill max money, but there's a lot of idiot teams out there. So I'm positive that if we want to keep him we'll have to pay top dollar, in which case I think we probably will just let him walk. Which would leave us searching for a point guard this off-season....again....

    IF teams were smart (not likely) than they will offer him a lower amount because of his injury history, in which we could match the offer. That's my hope but I'm not very hopeful about it.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    822
    The problem is we are desperate. The PG position has caused a lot of losses the past few years. The other current roster options will never be starters. Exum has a ceiling of a dog house because he is soft. Jazz fans are tired of this. The only better options in free agency is Steph and CP3, and that will never happen. Jrue Holliday and Jeff Teague are the next closest options but Hill is a much better fit for us. We are 18 and 6 when Hill plays. Jrue and Jeff are not real solutions anyway just bandaids. Most importantly Hill is a stud free agent at our most needed position and he wants to stay. He actually wants to stay in Utah! Like it or not we must back up the money truck and pay him what he wants. If I'm Hayward I go to Boston without Hill. In short, red flags or not Hill has us by the balls.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    822
    It's time to throw out a bad idea. We trade for Carmelo Anthony. At first thought I said no way. Then I chewed on it for a day. According to rumors that are probably false the Knicks are shopping him. They claim the Clippers and Celtics are interested, but are only offering low ball offers. Assuming all these false reports are true, we could at least consider it for a minute. Melo is a scorer and closer that would fill a need. He could play the 4 and spread the floor well. Could Rudy hide his bad defense? Why not do it, I'm not even convinced Melo helps you win. Why do it, he is better than any other free agent that would come to Utah and we will never beat the Warriors with this roster.

    I'm not saying I would do it, I just thought it was worth talking about.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,294
    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    It's time to throw out a bad idea. We trade for Carmelo Anthony. At first thought I said no way. Then I chewed on it for a day. According to rumors that are probably false the Knicks are shopping him. They claim the Clippers and Celtics are interested, but are only offering low ball offers. Assuming all these false reports are true, we could at least consider it for a minute. Melo is a scorer and closer that would fill a need. He could play the 4 and spread the floor well. Could Rudy hide his bad defense? Why not do it, I'm not even convinced Melo helps you win. Why do it, he is better than any other free agent that would come to Utah and we will never beat the Warriors with this roster.

    I'm not saying I would do it, I just thought it was worth talking about.
    Certainly fun to discuss! But Carmelo is one of the last super stars I would want on the team. He is all offense and no defense. I don't think he makes those around him better. He would hate it in Utah and I don't think Jazz fans would be crazy about him.

    As far as building a roster to beat the warriors, the warriors are historically good. They did a good job drafting and then hit the lottery with KD joining them. I don't think it is a good idea to take risks in efforts to compete with that. They will have their run and we just need to be ready to take advantage when they have injuries or lose players to free agency.

    Our team is getting ready to be dominant (in my opinion). We are SLOWLY starting to gel and get healthy. Heyward and Gobert are all-star calibur players. Favors is slowly getting better each game. Last year Favors was in the all-star conversation. When he gets healthy, he is a borderline all-star level player. Burks is back. Looking more and more confident each game. Hood and Lyles are very skilled players who are both in slumps right now. George Hill is in a slump right now. Even with all these issues, the team has won 7 of 9.

    We need to make some moves THIS year, but they don't need to be big moves. We need to use this year's cap space... whether it be extending favors, hill, or taking a contract for another team for draft picks, we need to use this year's cap space because it is an asset.

    This off-season also be making alot of moves. Hopefully resigning Heyward to a max deal and then resigning Hill and Jingles to team friendly contracts. We will have 2 late first round draft picks and our roster will probably be pretty well filled out, so I am guessing we use them on European picks we can stash.

    But if we can keep our team together this off-season, I think we are a top 3 team in the west for the next few years.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,294
    Mack hasn't been playing and now I am seeing rumors he will be traded (Cavs is where I am hearing. I am guessing we trade him straight out for a 2nd round pick. We pick up an extra pick and some extra cap space. Cavs get the PG help they need . We can use that extra cap space to extend Favors and / or Hill.

    A trade I wouldn't mind see happen is us sending the Golden State 1st round pick to the sixers for Holmes. Though I like our bigs, we don't have that energy guy. Lyles and Diaw are both skills. Favors is the tough guy. Gobert is a combination of tough guy and energy guy, but has to be careful with the energy because he is too valuable to pick up fouls from taking risks. Holmes can play PG or C. He can protect the rim and plays with a TON of energy. Would be nice to have that option on our bench instead of Lyles / Diaw who are very similar. He has 3 years on his contract and has a very cheap contract, so it doesn't impact our cap situation or impact to sign our other players. I would throw in a 2nd round pick to sweeten the deal if needed.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    1,353
    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    The problem is we are desperate. The PG position has caused a lot of losses the past few years. The other current roster options will never be starters. Exum has a ceiling of a dog house because he is soft. Jazz fans are tired of this. The only better options in free agency is Steph and CP3, and that will never happen. Jrue Holliday and Jeff Teague are the next closest options but Hill is a much better fit for us. We are 18 and 6 when Hill plays. Jrue and Jeff are not real solutions anyway just bandaids. Most importantly Hill is a stud free agent at our most needed position and he wants to stay. He actually wants to stay in Utah! Like it or not we must back up the money truck and pay him what he wants. If I'm Hayward I go to Boston without Hill. In short, red flags or not Hill has us by the balls.
    We aren't desparate, and people keep saying we need to trade every year it's the same thing, we need trades in order to get better. Just a few years ago people were saying we had at best 1 All-Star if we were lucky, not it's highly debatable that we don't have 2 all-stars this year. We still have Hood, Exum, and Lyles who are growing everyday and getting better every game. Give them a few years, let them develop, and in the meantime re-sign the best PG we can get. If it's Hill than it's Hill. If we can get someone else, than so be it. Thank goodness our front office is smart, they know this and aren't going to change anything drastic. They have a goal in mind and are going to see it through.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    822
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefistus View Post
    We aren't desparate, and people keep saying we need to trade every year it's the same thing, we need trades in order to get better. Just a few years ago people were saying we had at best 1 All-Star if we were lucky, not it's highly debatable that we don't have 2 all-stars this year. We still have Hood, Exum, and Lyles who are growing everyday and getting better every game. Give them a few years, let them develop, and in the meantime re-sign the best PG we can get. If it's Hill than it's Hill. If we can get someone else, than so be it. Thank goodness our front office is smart, they know this and aren't going to change anything drastic. They have a goal in mind and are going to see it through.
    I strongly disagree with you. We ARE desperate for a PG. We are drastically better with Hill on the floor. We have a much better record when he plays. I agree that we can wait and develop some of our young guys, but that doesn't mean we roll out next season with Exum as our starter and hope he figures it out. Exum is not even close, it's laughable. He is a free agent after next season. He would have to improve drastically to get anything but back up PG money. Besides, no Jazz fan wants to take another step backward on the one position that has killed us for years. Most importantly, without a good PG I think Hayward is gone. Face it, without a decent PG this team is mediocre. Why would Hayward commit to that long term? Loosing Hill and Hayward could send us back to the lottery. If you think I'm wrong then fine, but at least tell me what PG would replace Hill. I looked over the free agent options and it's not great. Please everyone spare me with the Exum could develop into our starter bull crap. NOT BY NEXT SEASON! He is closer to being out of the NBA than he is being a starter on a playoff team.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    1,353
    OK, so say we sign Hill for max money, then don't have enough money to pay for Hayward, that was smart. No one wants to regress, but if we lose our core group (which does NOT consist of Hill) than we're worse off than if he kept him. Maybe you forgot our record in December when Hill returned. We were only 1 seat back from where we are currently. We may be better with him, that's no doubt, but we're it's not detrimental to our team. I would rather re-sign all our current players and dump Hill if we couldn't afford him. But if we can keep everyone, great.

    Most people are talking about Melo, and that's my other point, stop talking about trading half our team to get a dying All-Star. We already have one, and next year we will probably have 2. Of course, I'm crazy for thinking Hood or Lyles, or Exum can still develop into a decent player, right? Just like I was crazy for thinking Gobert could be an All-Star, or that Hayward could also be an all-star, that's me being over optimistic I suppose.

    I've been saying for YEARS let them develop while everyone else except maybe JAZZNC has wanted to trade Favors, Hayward, Gobert, you name it, trades have come up to trade them. Just feels good to say I told you so I guess lol.
    Last edited by Firefistus; 02-02-2017 at 12:27 PM.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    822
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefistus View Post
    OK, so say we sign Hill for max money, then don't have enough money to pay for Hayward, that was smart. No one wants to regress, but if we lose our core group (which does NOT consist of Hill) than we're worse off than if he kept him. Maybe you forgot our record in December when Hill returned. We were only 1 seat back from where we are currently. We may be better with him, that's no doubt, but we're it's not detrimental to our team. I would rather re-sign all our current players and dump Hill if we couldn't afford him. But if we can keep everyone, great.

    Most people are talking about Melo, and that's my other point, stop talking about trading half our team to get a dying All-Star. We already have one, and next year we will probably have 2. Of course, I'm crazy for thinking Hood or Lyles, or Exum can still develop into a decent player, right? Just like I was crazy for thinking Gobert could be an All-Star, or that Hayward could also be an all-star, that's me being over optimistic I suppose.

    I've been saying for YEARS let them develop while everyone else except maybe JAZZNC has wanted to trade Favors, Hayward, Gobert, you name it, trades have come up to trade them. Just feels good to say I told you so I guess lol.
    I'm OK with optimistic but your in a dream world. Team altering decisions are upon us this summer. We don't have the luxury of waiting until everyone develops to decide. Hill will not ask for max money. Dumping Hill would be a Millsap type mistake. Exum is not a core player if he can't even hold down the back up PG spot. He has a looooong way to go.

    With Rudy already signed Hayward is the obvious priority. I would argue Hill is our next priority. I think Dennis agrees and will get it done. Based on what we know today it is an easy decision. I'm actually shocked we all don't agree on this. Anyone that thinks we can afford to not sign Hill please tell me who would replace him. I would love to hear any argument. Please remember this decision must be made this offseason ready or not.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,294
    George Hill is not the savior we had hoped earlier this season. His offense has come back down to his career averages (which is still pretty good) and on defense he looks like a 30+ year old vet. He is still a good player and a good fit on our team, but we still need to address the PG position in some way.

    Exum is a better player than he has shown. Also, the PG position has turned into the position where it takes the longest to develop. If you look around the league, you will find a number of talented young PGs who are struggling. Exum played little to no basketball over the summer. Mack is an experience PG in a contract year and their play has been similar. So Exum really hasn't been that bad. I hope that with a full season of experience and then a summer where he can play he will be ready to at LEAST be a capable backup next year.

    I posted earlier about the European PG that is interested in the Jazz next year as a free agent. He is highly regarded as the best non-NBA player in the world. I am really hoping that pans out.

    Burks has been playing some PG spot. Is he in our long term plans? If so, PG is one of the only positions he will be able to get playing time. Hood and Ingles at SG and Heyward and Johnson at SF. I am sure they want to resign Ingles, so those 4 are expected back next year for those two spots. Burks has been great so far this season, so if he is on the team, we have to expect him to get alot of playing time and PG seems like the most logical spot.

    All these items above though shows we have alot of questions that need to be answered. If Burks is not in the long term plans, his trade value is very high right now. He is playing great, looks healthy, and has a reasonable contract. Ingles will be interesting to see how much teams are willing to pay him, but we should definitely fight to keep him. Do we view FAvors as a PF or a Center? If we view him as a center, I could see him being traded. If we view him as a PF, then he needs to develop a better shot and more agility on defense.

    Too many question marks right now to predict what will happen. But we have to like how many options we have.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,770
    I think Hill needs to be resigned but within reason. If it's not reasonable, say he gets some kind of Mike Conley ridiculousness then we just can't. It's just not feasible. He certainly fits what we do as a team but Exum could still certainly pan out. I would still figure he is a year or two away from really making an impact. He is still so young and his development really got set back with the injury last year.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    822
    Love the optimism but Exum only has 1 year on his deal before he becomes a restricted free agent. So he has 1.4 seasons to show us something special before we will have to make a decision. He could still become a good player but it will take longer than his current contract to prove it. Here is how he ranks among the 93 NBA PG's.

    Real Plus Minus -3.69 (80th)
    FG % 40.5 (52nd)
    3 PFG% 27.7% (77th)
    Assists per 48 minutes 4.2 (86th)
    Steals per 48 .66 (89)
    Free Throw 84.8% (28th)
    Turnovers per 48 minutes (tied 20th)

    Compare with George Hill
    Real Plus Minus 2.79 (7th)
    FG % 47.3 (7th)
    3 PFG% 39.7% (7th among starting PG's)
    Assists per 48 minutes 6.2 (62nd)
    Steals per 48 1.5 (57th)
    Free Throw 80% (46th)
    Turnovers per 48 minutes (tied 20th)

    I just don't think we can do any better right now than Hill. He is the best on our current roster by a mile and he is the best free agent option that will come to Utah. I challenge anyone to come up with a better realistic option than Hill.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,294
    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    Love the optimism but Exum only has 1 year on his deal before he becomes a restricted free agent. So he has 1.4 seasons to show us something special before we will have to make a decision. He could still become a good player but it will take longer than his current contract to prove it. Here is how he ranks among the 93 NBA PG's.

    Real Plus Minus -3.69 (80th)
    FG % 40.5 (52nd)
    3 PFG% 27.7% (77th)
    Assists per 48 minutes 4.2 (86th)
    Steals per 48 .66 (89)
    Free Throw 84.8% (28th)
    Turnovers per 48 minutes (tied 20th)

    Compare with George Hill
    Real Plus Minus 2.79 (7th)
    FG % 47.3 (7th)
    3 PFG% 39.7% (7th among starting PG's)
    Assists per 48 minutes 6.2 (62nd)
    Steals per 48 1.5 (57th)
    Free Throw 80% (46th)
    Turnovers per 48 minutes (tied 20th)

    I just don't think we can do any better right now than Hill. He is the best on our current roster by a mile and he is the best free agent option that will come to Utah. I challenge anyone to come up with a better realistic option than Hill.
    I don't disagree that we need Hill, but I think his value is limited a little by his age, his injury history, and the fact he is statistically having his best career year. Hill is in a slump right now, but his numbers of as late align more with his career averages than what his numbers did to start the year. If you ran the numbers for the last 10 games, Hill doesn't look nearly as good and i feel his play of late is more in line with what we will get from him next season.

    But I still agree, he is our best option this year and probably our best option next year. Given his age, Hill may look at this as his last chance for a big contract. If that is the case, I don't think we resign him. I am sure the Jazz are trying to extend him right now, using their cap space this year to extend him. IF he is not extended by the end of the deadline, I don't think he resigns with us this summer.

Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •