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  1. #1261
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    C is one of our strengths right now. Noguera is better than Biz on both sides of the ball. He isn't the rebounder that Biz is because he doesn't need to be inside to be effective. If the salaries were the same, I wouldn't trade BeBe for Biz straight up. Biz was hot/cold. Sometimes he brought it and had a great game, other times he looked small and unconfident Noguera brings it every day and can actually play with Val. In 2 years BeBe will be the vastly better player with his offence. He passes as well as any big in the league and he can hit a 3.

    Guys... We have a huge hole at PF. We started a rookie C there last game. We don't have a PF on the team with PP down. That, combined with Boston and Washington improving is the difference between last year and this year. Scola from last year would have a bigger impact on this team than Biz imo.

  2. #1262
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I know you're not high on Ibaka.. but on paper he is exactly what we need at the 4. If it doesn't cost to much it doesn't hurt to add him. A patterson/Ibaka combo at the 4 would be nice imo.
    PP/Ibaka/Val/BeBe is a fantastic diverse balanced front court.
    That front court challenges for best in the league (out of the front courts without a star).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    I feel like what we need at the 4 is someone who gives us what Jonas is not giving us. Biyombo please

    Sent from my SM-T530NU using Tapatalk
    Hmmm.. A player who brings what Val doesn't... Sort of like BeBe? I'd say BeBe is the polar opposite of Val. Or you mean a player that brings what Val doesn't, but is also a true 4 (you know, that massive hole we have in the lineup both starting and on the bench when our only PF goes down)... Like Ibaka?

  3. #1263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    We'd have to give up assets and play Bismack at the 4 with his plans so asset wise and future wise, we probably lose out there. Even if Bismack was brought in to be the backup 5, we'd still be relatively the same seed and relatively perform the same in the playoffs (as a 2nd round team that is closer to 1st round than the ECF). So yes, it's actually very marginal with the end result, even if it looks better on the court.

    Bismack at C (and you make a few other moves at the PF and SF position)? Well now you're talking.
    No i get that ship has sailed and it wasn't likely we'd be able to retain him because of Derozan.. and its even more unlikelu that we trade for him now.. but to say biz made a marginal difference to me says maybe some missed the post season entirely. We don't reach the ecf's with Biz imo.

  4. #1264
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    Quote Originally Posted by koreancabbage View Post
    *shrugs* still not a contender even with Biz. just masked the real problem as a team overall.

    last year's record 36-18. This year's record 32-22. marginally better with Biz.

    also PPat has been injured, who is probably our best big man defender and 3 point threat in the front court has been out for 12 recent games - could have easily swung the record in favor of this year's team.

    don't know why everyone is so worked up about Biz. there was no way they were going to trade a 23 year old up and coming center who actually beasted in the playoffs as well (JV) and Carroll is in theory the 3 the team needs when healthy. Tross on a team friendly contract - would probably get the same as Biz on the open market because of his athleticism and 3 point shooting.

    its obvious they need a change - personnel wise. its just that Biz is not the answer moving forward. we need a more complete well rounded player than Biz.
    Biz may be one dimensional but that one dimension he provided seemed to be exactly what this team needed. I'm not sure anyone is worked up.. alot of us have been saying the same thing since the off season.

    Counting wins and losses in the regular seasons doesn't say much. This teams success is measured in the post season, where Bizmack made his impact and earned his pay day.

    No point in harping or beating a dead horse.

    I actually think Ibaka could revert back to more of a shot blocker like he was with okc. He is scoring the ball like never before in is career with the magic and thats nice.. but if he can bring that defensive intensity back a little bit he could be a nice fit here
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 02-13-2017 at 11:31 AM.

  5. 02-13-2017, 11:33 AM

  6. #1265
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Biz may be one dimensional but that one dimension he provided seemed to be exactly what this team needed. I'm not sure anyone is worked up.. alot of us have been saying the same thing since the off season.

    Counting wins and losses in the regular seasons doesn't say much. This teams success is measured in the post season, where Bizmack made his impact and earned his pay day.

    No point in harping or beating a dead horse.

    I actually think Ibaka could revert back to more of a shot blocker like he was with okc. He is scoring the ball like never before in is career with the magic and thats nice.. but if he can bring that defensive intensity back a little bit he could be a nice fit here
    the team needs more talent. and more all round talent. Casey is a guy who compartmentalizes everyone on the team. Biz may be of something the team needed.. defensively, but much to be left desired on the offense side of the court. The guy is stone hands biyombo for a reason. dude can't catch a bullet pass under the net to save his life. there are better players out there i rather give $25 than Biyombo $17M. I'm glad that ship has sailed because the root of this team still sucks. those are some of the flaws thats hidden with regular season play. Its also a reason why the Raptors struggled in the playoffs because Biyombo is a one dimensional player 2 series going to game 7s and 1 series game 6. you say he helped. i say he was part of the problem as well.

    You see him almost as a savior to the team's struggles and I say he's part of the problem to begin with: lack of two way players on the team and overall talent.

    We need someone with Biyombo's defensive talent but someone who can also be count on to score as well in the front court. can't be two difference people. main reason is because we have two chuckers in the backcourt and a dumbasss coach who can't adjust to anything.


    I think when Ibaka changed into a scorer more recently, that has affected his energy he puts on the defensive end. he's changed and he isn't as defensive oriented anymore. not saying he isn't good for defense but i'll hold judgement on Ibaka for now.



  7. #1266
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    I know you're not high on Ibaka.. but on paper he is exactly what we need at the 4. If it doesn't cost to much it doesn't hurt to add him. A patterson/Ibaka combo at the 4 would be nice imo.
    I actually like that Ibaka was able to adjust his game to suit the teams needs. That's talent. No doubt in my mind Casey would get the best out of his defence.

  8. #1267
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    Quote Originally Posted by koreancabbage View Post
    the team needs more talent. and more all round talent. Casey is a guy who compartmentalizes everyone on the team. Biz may be of something the team needed.. defensively, but much to be left desired on the offense side of the court. The guy is stone hands biyombo for a reason. dude can't catch a bullet pass under the net to save his life. there are better players out there i rather give $25 than Biyombo $17M. I'm glad that ship has sailed because the root of this team still sucks. those are some of the flaws thats hidden with regular season play. Its also a reason why the Raptors struggled in the playoffs because Biyombo is a one dimensional player 2 series going to game 7s and 1 series game 6. you say he helped. i say he was part of the problem as well.

    You see him almost as a savior to the team's struggles and I say he's part of the problem to begin with: lack of two way players on the team and overall talent.

    We need someone with Biyombo's defensive talent but someone who can also be count on to score as well in the front court. can't be two difference people. main reason is because we have two chuckers in the backcourt and a dumbasss coach who can't adjust to anything.


    I think when Ibaka changed into a scorer more recently, that has affected his energy he puts on the defensive end. he's changed and he isn't as defensive oriented anymore. not saying he isn't good for defense but i'll hold judgement on Ibaka for now.
    I see him for what he was as a player on this team. An anchor on defense around players that are very offensive minded.

    If you're gonna talk about flawed players who are not two way players then you're stating the obvious. It starts with Derozan. But we all know that and we also know he isn't going anywhere. The debate can stop right there if you like ... and you will just be echoing ghosts like bramaca and ink.

    And we get it, we all get it. You're not the first to observe that Demar is not Leonard or Lebron or George or any other complete 2 way wing players. But again Demar is not going anywhere. So with that said... and known, what's the best next option?

    I don't care to talk about Biyombo anymore because he is not a realistic option and we have to move on. But just know he fit caseys system perfectly, his perimiter defence on Lebron was the reason the raptors were the only team to beat the cavs twice in the post season last year. .. and yes you heard that right Biz was guarding lebron on the perimiter more times than I can count. Also he elevated this team to an ecf's...you take him away and the team looks like it's reverted to the team that could lose in the first round again ... its not a coincidence.. he's no saviour but he certainly was the xfaxtor in that run..

    he didnt mask the flaws, he improved the defence.. thats what specialists do. If you need 3 point shooting and you get Korver, he doesn't mask your flaws, he stretches the floor and gives you a threat beyond the arc. If you need a rim protector you go ahead and get a rim protector.. its not masking it's filling a need.

    Now if you want to dead the debate and just say Demar and Lowry are not good enough players to build a contender around trust me not to many will argue with you. These discussions are based on the idea that we have already accepted that we are simply working with what we have. If we all just went around saying Demar is one dimensional and we need to build around a super star there would be no debate at all.

    So .. yes we will continue to discuss what we think this core needs to succeed weather it's flawed or not it's what we have.

    I'd trade Demar and Klow for PG. But it just isn't going to happen we have Demar and Klow.. so we have to find players that suit them and help them.

    Or you know we can just wait it out until the next rebuild.. it is what it is.

    I think Ibaka has been asked to score more and that is his role now because the magic just dont have many scorers. I do think Ibaka can shift his focus back to being a defensive player.. but unlike Bizmack he still capable of scoring the ball for you. He may just be the guy that fits.

  9. #1268
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I actually like that Ibaka was able to adjust his game to suit the teams needs. That's talent. No doubt in my mind Casey would get the best out of his defence.
    As long as he can adjust back lol.

    To me it just seems that ibaka didn't need to be this elite rim protector anymore because they have biyombo.. what they need is scoring and so you're right he was talented enough to adjust and give his team more of what they need.

    The raptors still need some offense in the front court too so to koreancabbags point Ibaka is more well rounded than Biz and thats a good thing.

    Carrol and a first or Ross and a first or even Powell and Sully should get it done. I think Demar and Kyle just put pressure on MU to get it done in their post game interviews last night .. they look pissed.

    7 young players.. 2 rookie bigs who aren't use to playing an 82 game season... who would have thought this team would hit a wall eh MU? Lol smh I think the allstars are pissed off..

  10. #1269
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    No i get that ship has sailed and it wasn't likely we'd be able to retain him because of Derozan.. and its even more unlikelu that we trade for him now.. but to say biz made a marginal difference to me says maybe some missed the post season entirely. We don't reach the ecf's with Biz imo.
    I think when Koreancabbage said marginal difference, I believe he is talking about if we get him now. At least thats what i referred to (as the assets we would give up would just take away from the team this year).

  11. #1270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    I think when Koreancabbage said marginal difference, I believe he is talking about if we get him now. At least thats what i referred to (as the assets we would give up would just take away from the team this year).
    That I would agree with. But I've moved on i know we're not getting back due to cost and or availability.

  12. #1271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    I think when Koreancabbage said marginal difference, I believe he is talking about if we get him now. At least thats what i referred to (as the assets we would give up would just take away from the team this year).
    Or the assets we would have to 'give away' to get under the cap to sign Biz.

    But yes same idea. It's the trade off of assets


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



  13. #1272
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    This team goes as far as Lowry and Derozan go. Lately they just haven't been the best players on the floor in the 4th quarter. We keep building leads and then seem to run out of gas and just try to milk the lead playing slow. Maybe because Lowry leads the league in minutes his legs aren't there to run in the 4th?

    JV and Carroll have been playing great. With a regular Lowry and Derozan we win all these 1 and 2 point games we keep losing. 28-30 minutes of PP on defence and we probably win them too. The problem is we still need a 2 way player to start at PF. Casey been searching, but no one has taken the spot and ran with it.... Because most of them aren't even PF's (Bebe and Poeltl).

    At least Siakam, Bebe and Poeltl are all getting a chance this year to develop. Can't say he doesn't play rookies anymore.. Lol

  14. #1273
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    This team goes as far as Lowry and Derozan go. Lately they just haven't been the best players on the floor in the 4th quarter. We keep building leads and then seem to run out of gas and just try to milk the lead playing slow. Maybe because Lowry leads the league in minutes his legs aren't there to run in the 4th?

    JV and Carroll have been playing great. With a regular Lowry and Derozan we win all these 1 and 2 point games we keep losing. 28-30 minutes of PP on defence and we probably win them too. The problem is we still need a 2 way player to start at PF. Casey been searching, but no one has taken the spot and ran with it.... Because most of them aren't even PF's (Bebe and Poeltl).

    At least Siakam, Bebe and Poeltl are all getting a chance this year to develop. Can't say he doesn't play rookies anymore.. Lol
    i share the same sentiments. we need a legit 2 way player to help defensively and offensively. its just not even that. the Raptors need a talent infusion. Patterson is also missing and they really really need him.

    Latest rumours, with a grain of salt:

    The Raptors are “playing hardball” in trade talks, per The Sporting News. A source tells Deveney that the club has resisted the idea of giving up Terrence Ross, and Deveney says Toronto also wants to keep Bruno Caboclo, who is a “project the team wants to complete itself.”



  15. #1274
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    Terrence Ross i can see why but Bruno... lol


    But man, i would ****ing rip this board apart if they traded Bruno and he becomes a superstar. imagine that he did.



  16. #1275
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    It's interesting teams even want Caboclo....

    If you arent willing to give him up i dont know what you can actually trade. Who is more expendable than Bruno ffs?

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