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  1. #2236
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    Quote Originally Posted by sager729 View Post
    Quintana has 59 no decisions in his career, is that because he doesn't inspire his RP to do better when they come in with the lead?
    In those 59 no decisions how many has he left on base for the BP? Granted Chicago's BP has probably cost him a few wins, but no where near the magnitude of those ACES mentioned above.

    Bottom line, you are trying to paint Q as an ace worthy of a Kings ransom in prospects, he's not. According to Baseball reference at age 28 he's much closer to :
    Pete Richert
    Brandon Webb
    Denny Lemaster
    Jon Niese
    Dick Bosman
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...uintjo01.shtml

    As you well know Yanks just picked up Niese for basically nothing on a minor league deal.
    “Farts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” — Aldous Huxley
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Albert Einstein



  2. #2237
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    Here is a good article on the subject from the guys at fangraphs. I think the comparisons made in this article are more realistic than comparing him to Jon Niese.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-p...o-be-sky-high/

  3. #2238
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLES3658 View Post
    Here is a good article on the subject from the guys at fangraphs. I think the comparisons made in this article are more realistic than comparing him to Jon Niese.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-p...o-be-sky-high/
    The list posted came from Baseball Reference not me, I assume based on their proprietary stats comparing pitchers thru age 27.
    “Farts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” — Aldous Huxley
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Albert Einstein



  4. #2239
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLES3658 View Post
    Here is a good article on the subject from the guys at fangraphs. I think the comparisons made in this article are more realistic than comparing him to Jon Niese.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-p...o-be-sky-high/
    Eagles, don't make good arguments and show them pieces that show what we're saying as right. Then their win argument or inspiring the offense to score more argument will be shown as ********. Which it is.

    Quintana has been valued at a top 7 SP in all over baseball over the past 4 seasons, but he's not near an ace (which I never called him) I said his value is right their with a bunch of guys I guarantee you two consider aces.

    I know I'd rather have Quintana over Tanaka. I KNOW I'm getting 200 innings from JQ. Tanaka still hasn't hit the 200 inning mark yet. (Yes I know he hit 199.2, but it's not 200) but Quintana has consistently been better than Tanaka.

  5. #2240
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    Quote Originally Posted by sager729 View Post
    Eagles, don't make good arguments and show them pieces that show what we're saying as right. Then their win argument or inspiring the offense to score more argument will be shown as ********. Which it is.

    Quintana has been valued at a top 7 SP in all over baseball over the past 4 seasons, but he's not near an ace (which I never called him) I said his value is right their with a bunch of guys I guarantee you two consider aces.

    I know I'd rather have Quintana over Tanaka. I KNOW I'm getting 200 innings from JQ. Tanaka still hasn't hit the 200 inning mark yet. (Yes I know he hit 199.2, but it's not 200) but Quintana has consistently been better than Tanaka.


    'been better ' if you mean as far as innings go then I agree ( just 1 more start this yr)

    a good comparison on your part which makes your case as far as quin being a plus pitcher

    but being a WHIP fan I'm giving tanaka the edge

    career 1.242 vs 1.045

    that said I'd love to have him


  6. #2241
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    I think this season is going to tell the tale of just how good Quintana is or not. Sometimes pitching in the shadow of another can hide some things. Sale was a dominant lefty, Q is a totally different style. When these guys pitch back to back, it takes a few AB's to adjust and those few AB's are on the starter (Q) not the BP... That does not always happen that way, but more often than most would care to admit it does... I've seen guys get real benefits after a knucklballer because the hitters get so used to that 50 MPH, could not break glass FB one night, then the next can see 90+ and I've seen some good hitters go into slumps.

    Now that Sale is gone and Q is the guy, he's either going to step up and show he's ace quality... or he's going to be somewhere else. Time will tell... though I do agree, he's not close to on-par with Sale and should not be considered to garner a package in the same ball park as sale did... I'm also one that I want to see the youth of the Yanks get chances to crack the lineup, not moving them for established guys at this point.

    Next year, after CC is gone... different tune... but this is rebuilding... and it's time to actually rebuild... reloading is when your close.. the yanks are not close... .500 sure... playoffs, longshot this year.. next????maybe...

  7. #2242
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    Quote Originally Posted by sager729 View Post
    This just isn't right at all.
    Because why? Because you are close mined cynic who has no ability to conceive the effects of relaxation on performance?
    You who are the rightest of right, please enlighten us with your infinite knowledge of how everything in the universe work. Please explain the existence or non existence of God or if not god a higher power that creates mysterious things happen between people in groups and why some people are perceived as leaders and other not?

    Bury that face in the numbers. Certainly don't consider other ideas. That would be scary.




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  8. #2243
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinstripezac View Post
    [/B]

    'been better ' if you mean as far as innings go then I agree ( just 1 more start this yr)

    a good comparison on your part which makes your case as far as quin being a plus pitcher

    but being a WHIP fan I'm giving tanaka the edge

    career 1.242 vs 1.045

    that said I'd love to have him

    Yep. Me too but not if it means dealing Torres, Frazier, Sheffield, Rutherford, Kap, Andujar or fowler.




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  9. #2244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    Yep. Me too but not if it means dealing Torres, Frazier, Sheffield, Rutherford, Kap, Andujar or fowler.
    That's what this all boils down to. Not questioning Q's ability, but his value to the Yanks. Imo he's not worth the package that Sager believes him to be. He felt Mateo, Ref, Acevedo, Abreu and another arm wouldn't warrant a conversation from Chicago. We both disagree. Imo any deal that starts with Mateo is worth a listen. Sale attracted top shelf talent. Quintana is not on the same level.

    I have been quite vocal re: our need for rotation help. Quintana would fill a void, however not at the expense Sager believes. Imo he's not an ace. At this juncture he's a solid #3, possible 2. I just don't believe he's the arm to gamble top level talent for and potentially derail the future youth movement that is well underway.
    Last edited by drt1010; 03-12-2017 at 11:14 PM.
    “Farts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” — Aldous Huxley
    "Not everything that counts can be counted and not everything that can be counted counts."--- Albert Einstein



  10. #2245
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    Quote Originally Posted by EAGLES3658 View Post
    Remember when Felix used to have a near .500 record every year? Was he not an ace either?
    already discussed it.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

  11. #2246
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    In no way would I trade any of our big named prospects for Q. I think Q is a solid pitcher but no way I'm giving up what it would cost to get him.
    Spurs Sim league
    2 time Champion 653-331

  12. #2247
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxplayerxx23 View Post
    In no way would I trade any of our big named prospects for Q. I think Q is a solid pitcher but no way I'm giving up what it would cost to get him.
    I thought this was a pretty good read

    I trust cashmen when it comes to trades

    he look pretty good in the WBC the other night

    he's a horse I'm in





    ....................But here’s the thing. There are certain players the Yankees will not trade under any circumstances. It’s not rocket science. Gleyber Torres, Gary Sanchez, Greg Bird, and probably James Kaprielian, even with his arm injury at a young age, fall into that category of “untouchables.”...................................

    ............................But beyond that quartet, it’s a free-for-all. From there, the only thing worth talking to the White Sox about is to ask them a simple question: “Do you want quality or quantity?”.....................

    ............................................ why wouldn’t he want to acquire Quintana, who is a workhorse reminiscent of CC Sabathia in his heyday. He just turned 28 and is under team control through 2020 (team options), and he’s signed at a modest salary ($26.5 million) through those years. What’s there not to like?..................

    .............It’s no secret that the Yankees have too much of a good thing. And at some point, they’ll need to pare their roster down to make room for players whose names we haven’t even heard yet, plus the talent that will become available in the free agent market as soon as 2018 (think Jake Arrieta for starters).

    So, pick your poison and be done with it. The White Sox can have two blue-chippers like Aaron Judge and Jorge Mateo. Or, they can have four players from the second tier that would include names like James Montgomery, Miguel Andujar, Tyler Austin, and on and on.

    for full read

    http://yanksgoyard.com/2017/03/13/ya...sweepstakes-2/

  13. #2248
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    Quote Originally Posted by drt1010 View Post
    That's what this all boils down to. Not questioning Q's ability, but his value to the Yanks. Imo he's not worth the package that Sager believes him to be. He felt Mateo, Ref, Acevedo, Abreu and another arm wouldn't warrant a conversation from Chicago. We both disagree. Imo any deal that starts with Mateo is worth a listen. Sale attracted top shelf talent. Quintana is not on the same level.

    I have been quite vocal re: our need for rotation help. Quintana would fill a void, however not at the expense Sager believes. Imo he's not an ace. At this juncture he's a solid #3, possible 2. I just don't believe he's the arm to gamble top level talent for and potentially derail the future youth movement that is well underway.
    I definitely think he's a 2 and a quite good one.
    I also don't think anyone actually disagreed with him what the White Sox would want. I think people said that they would be willing to part with certain players.
    Hence I find him FOS regarding coming into this thread to have a discussion. Of all the topics to which he could have contributed, he returned when there were two posts by you and I, regarding what we would give up to get Q? Talk about waiting for low hanging fruit...

    I really hope Q stays with the White Sox. He can show us that we were wrong and that he is an Ace.
    I guess the question is, if he is an Ace and he's still only 27-28, why would the sox trade him. Isn't a young Ace exactly what a team wants to anchor their rotation?




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  14. #2249
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinstripezac View Post
    I thought this was a pretty good read

    I trust cashmen when it comes to trades

    he look pretty good in the WBC the other night

    he's a horse I'm in





    ....................But here’s the thing. There are certain players the Yankees will not trade under any circumstances. It’s not rocket science. Gleyber Torres, Gary Sanchez, Greg Bird, and probably James Kaprielian, even with his arm injury at a young age, fall into that category of “untouchables.”...................................

    ............................But beyond that quartet, it’s a free-for-all. From there, the only thing worth talking to the White Sox about is to ask them a simple question: “Do you want quality or quantity?”.....................

    ............................................ why wouldn’t he want to acquire Quintana, who is a workhorse reminiscent of CC Sabathia in his heyday. He just turned 28 and is under team control through 2020 (team options), and he’s signed at a modest salary ($26.5 million) through those years. What’s there not to like?..................

    .............It’s no secret that the Yankees have too much of a good thing. And at some point, they’ll need to pare their roster down to make room for players whose names we haven’t even heard yet, plus the talent that will become available in the free agent market as soon as 2018 (think Jake Arrieta for starters).

    So, pick your poison and be done with it. The White Sox can have two blue-chippers like Aaron Judge and Jorge Mateo. Or, they can have four players from the second tier that would include names like James Montgomery, Miguel Andujar, Tyler Austin, and on and on.

    for full read

    http://yanksgoyard.com/2017/03/13/ya...sweepstakes-2/
    I guess my feeling is why not one blue chipper and 3 second tier? Mateo, and some combo of Fowler, Montgomery, Abreu, Acevedo, Austin, Tate and Wade. So a top 5 prospect, another top 10 and two top 15.
    If that's not enough, oh well.




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  15. #2250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinkotheclown View Post
    I guess my feeling is why not one blue chipper and 3 second tier? Mateo, and some combo of Fowler, Montgomery, Abreu, Acevedo, Austin, Tate and Wade. So a top 5 prospect, another top 10 and two top 15.
    If that's not enough, oh well.
    that could work
    so many choices unlike yrs past
    if they want to get it done there's no doubt they can


    I guess the question is, if he is an Ace and he's still only 27-28, why would the sox trade him. Isn't a young Ace exactly what a team wants to anchor their rotation?
    other than the ole hidden injury card I got nothing kinko

    I guess it's the same with sale maybe they just want to push the clock back

    does makes we wonder if they would lean towards quantity over quality
    Last edited by pinstripezac; 03-13-2017 at 10:32 AM.

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