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  1. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I get what Nasty is saying and I think part of it is that a lot of people that are married to the idea of decision making based on science and what turns out the best result on average. Experiencing extremes is great for growth though. Swinging for the fencing sometimes and even when you miss you might grow just don't do it all the time
    Thatís actually a great analogy to describe where I am. Iím a fan of baseball, and I find the all-or nothing approach (and the attendant proliferation of strikeouts and home runs) for the most part dreary. Keep the ball in the park and everyone, offense and defense alike, has to move accordingly.

    I guess Iím content to keep my worldview in the park, so to speak.

  2. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Not to worry about quoting me. Iím always up for a good discussion and a critical examination of my views.

    The Napoleon quotation definitely speaks to his time and place (France early 1800ís), but given the history of the Catholic Church leading up to that time, he had a point. Not unlike Marxís ďreligion is the opiate of the people.Ē Again, time and place matter.

    Nowadays, when we donít normally get burned alive for questioning the existence of God (at least where I live), we might take a different view of the effects of religion and religious beliefs; hence, the EO Wilson quotation makes more sense.

    As to your specific observation ó which is, if I read it correctly something to the effect that the scientific method boxes us in anbd limits our minds ó Iíd have to say that I certainly donít feel that way. Following science (astronomy in particular) has made me truly appreciate the intricate and exquisite manifestations of the universe.

    When it comes to things like intuition, even emotion, I guess I just donít get it beyond what I can measure.
    Your last sentence is definitely the crux of my argument

    I'm sure we've all had that experience of looking up into the stars and getting lost into or feeling connected to the universe. Sometimes it happens with fire, sometimes with flowing water. Would a lack of scientifically understanding these things change that for you? Were people 100 years ago unable to appreciate something like that compared to today since at that time we mistakenly thought the sun was stationary and not in orbit?

    Life is a constant scientific experiment itself, as we are constantly observing and calculating, based on, while also simultaneously shaping, our world view.

    Wether someone has run controlled experiments on it shouldn't be the end all of what we can understand and know about the life around us. And I'm not saying it is for you, but I think in the context of debate that certainly seems to be the atheists hot take, which to me makes no sense. Example being in the other active thread here where fanclenden is trying to dismiss any thoughts I have of someone else's beliefs based on my observations of them, rather than hearing what they themselves say. You'd be shocked how many of our habits and thoughts are based on things we ourselves are not even consciously aware of
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  3. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Your last sentence is definitely the crux of my argument

    I'm sure we've all had that experience of looking up into the stars and getting lost into or feeling connected to the universe. Sometimes it happens with fire, sometimes with flowing water. Would a lack of scientifically understanding these things change that for you? Were people 100 years ago unable to appreciate something like that compared to today since at that time we mistakenly thought the sun was stationary and not in orbit?

    Life is a constant scientific experiment itself, as we are constantly observing and calculating, based on, while also simultaneously shaping, our world view.

    Wether someone has run controlled experiments on it shouldn't be the end all of what we can understand and know about the life around us. And I'm not saying it is for you, but I think in the context of debate that certainly seems to be the atheists hot take, which to me makes no sense. Example being in the other active thread here where fanclenden is trying to dismiss any thoughts I have of someone else's beliefs based on my observations of them, rather than hearing what they themselves say. You'd be shocked how many of our habits and thoughts are based on things we ourselves are not even consciously aware of
    I see nature as much more interesting ó and frankly, much more amazing ó in light of evolutionary theory than if God plunked us all down here.

    I see my very existence as startlingly fantastic given the parameters of science and probability over and against the idea that some distant, silent, and somewhat sadistic father-figure wants me here.

  4. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    I see nature as much more interesting ó and frankly, much more amazing ó in light of evolutionary theory than if God plunked us all down here.

    I see my very existence as startlingly fantastic given the parameters of science and probability over and against the idea that some distant, silent, and somewhat sadistic father-figure wants me here.
    Well regardless, the plunking has taken place. Wether it's a human plunked in the middle of Edens garden, or wether it's a galaxy blown into existence, there is no side stepping the plunk. Which is what is at the heart of theism
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  5. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Thatís actually a great analogy to describe where I am. Iím a fan of baseball, and I find the all-or nothing approach (and the attendant proliferation of strikeouts and home runs) for the most part dreary. Keep the ball in the park and everyone, offense and defense alike, has to move accordingly.

    I guess Iím content to keep my worldview in the park, so to speak.
    Excess in moderation is the best way to go


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  6. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Well regardless, the plunking has taken place. Wether it's a human plunked in the middle of Edens garden, or wether it's a galaxy blown into existence, there is no side stepping the plunk. Which is what is at the heart of theism
    The origin of the universe...

    https://youtu.be/ZferXWMPjDo


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  7. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    The origin of the universe...

    https://youtu.be/ZferXWMPjDo


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Exactly. There's no unplunking the original plunk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

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