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  1. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    What are your guys thoughts on a Wiggins/Jones/future 1st for Paul George?
    Would do it in a heartbeat. I know you could lose George to LA in two years but I think you bring in someone of that quality and build around him and KAT. It is worth a shot. Wiggins is a scorer and that is it. Not sure if IND would even consider that trade though?

  2. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    What are your guys thoughts on a Wiggins/Jones/future 1st for Paul George?
    My God I'd love that.

    Is him having the player option next year a concern though? Or is convincing him to stay all part of the risk? Is the old 'extend-and-trade' still a thing?

    I feel like George's willingness/ability to handle the ball some would also allow us to trade high on Rubio. But that's a whole other kettle of fish.

  3. #348
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    Don't want to make this a huge post. Here's a comparison between one of our favorite rosters of all time against our current one. I am talking of course about the KG, Sprewell and Cassell. A team that finished first in their division with a record of 58-24 and progressed through 2 rounds of the playoffs. Because back then I couldn't watch the games, correct me if you see that I make any mistakes.
    KG-Towns
    Towns is not there yet. But he is that level of talent. Offensively he might be close but defensively and leadership wise he has work to do.

    Sprewell-Wiggins
    Both score first players. To be honest I prefer Wiggins though. Up for debate though.

    Cassell-Rubio
    In my opinion which could be way off Cassell was the better scorer and Rubio is better at organizing and D. I am biased though regarding Rubio

    Hassell-Lavine
    Honestly I prefer Lavine

    Olowokandi-Dieng
    Dieng probably?

    Sczcerbiak-Bazz
    I think Wally get's the edge.

    Hudson/Goldwire/McLeod-Tyus/Dunn
    Tough one. Hudson could score better, Dunn is way better defender. I lean to our current backup PGs because Tyus is a servicable backup.

    Rest of the bench
    Probably the 2003-04 team but we are not talking about major differences

    Ebi/Quincy Lewis-Payne
    Hahahahaha

  4. #349
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    That team had some nasty though. KG, Spree were crazy.

    This team needs to have a big of toughness to it. Wiggins is as soft as it comes and KAT playing the Kevin Love 'ole defense does not help. This needs to change if we have a future.

  5. #350
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    I posted this just because I think our roster isn't that far off. With 2 major differences. KG's level at that point and experience. Even players like Madsen or Hoidberg were experienced players at the time. Both of which matters will be rectified with time. Well as long as Towns keeps progressing. And with our pick and by acquiring just one player (plus the development of our current players) our depth could be much greater that the 03-04 team.
    That said it also shows how different the NBA was back then

  6. #351
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    As I said I prefer Wiggins. Spre was crazy and eventualy destroyed that team. As did Marbury with the previous one.
    Of course we need improvement. And heck we need both a defensive PF and to find a way to cover Wiggins' softness.

  7. #352
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    As you say the NBA was real different back then. I really do not think you can win in the NBA anymore without having AT LEAST two stars. Yeah you can make the playoffs with one star but you are not going far without at least two. Good teams are full of role players and vets that know defensive systems and the role they play. Wiggins is nothing more than a 3rd scorer on a playoff team in my opinion. Even then I worry about his defense, rebounding and effort. I think I would trade Wiggins if the right offer came along this off-season.

    Our team is not as good as people seem to think it is. We are still a long way away. I hate saying that, it is just what I think.

    EDIT: I will also say that KG in those years was ELITE defensively. ELITE. None of our current players are even great defenders.

    Dunn has moments sure and Rubio is great in passing lanes etc but outside of those two everyone else really struggles defensively. Defense is a HUGE part of this game and having KG as THE anchor was so important to that team's success.
    Last edited by Kia Kaha; 04-20-2017 at 05:56 AM.

  8. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellington19 View Post
    My God I'd love that.

    Is him having the player option next year a concern though? Or is convincing him to stay all part of the risk? Is the old 'extend-and-trade' still a thing?

    I feel like George's willingness/ability to handle the ball some would also allow us to trade high on Rubio. But that's a whole other kettle of fish.
    That would be a very foolish risk IMO. I would say the odds of keeping him are 10% or less. Obviously, that's pure speculation but I think most of the national press would agree the odds are low.
    Everyone wants immediate gratification which is a good way to stay bad. Just ask Brooklyn!

    If we have the money to pay George, go get a free agent instead of giving up several assets. You can't make the argument they won't come and they say George would stay.

  9. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverson View Post
    Don't want to make this a huge post. Here's a comparison between one of our favorite rosters of all time against our current one. I am talking of course about the KG, Sprewell and Cassell. A team that finished first in their division with a record of 58-24 and progressed through 2 rounds of the playoffs. Because back then I couldn't watch the games, correct me if you see that I make any mistakes.
    KG-Towns
    Towns is not there yet. But he is that level of talent. Offensively he might be close but defensively and leadership wise he has work to do.

    Sprewell-Wiggins
    Both score first players. To be honest I prefer Wiggins though. Up for debate though.

    Cassell-Rubio
    In my opinion which could be way off Cassell was the better scorer and Rubio is better at organizing and D. I am biased though regarding Rubio

    Hassell-Lavine
    Honestly I prefer Lavine

    Olowokandi-Dieng
    Dieng probably?

    Sczcerbiak-Bazz
    I think Wally get's the edge.

    Hudson/Goldwire/McLeod-Tyus/Dunn
    Tough one. Hudson could score better, Dunn is way better defender. I lean to our current backup PGs because Tyus is a servicable backup.

    Rest of the bench
    Probably the 2003-04 team but we are not talking about major differences

    Ebi/Quincy Lewis-Payne
    Hahahahaha
    that 03-04' team was SO good defensively though. And everyone on our roster was in their prime. Many years of real games behind them. On paper there are similarities, but there is so much growth to happen to our team, not in age per say, but just pure attitude, and professionalism. I think Towns is already as good as KG ever was offensively, but he is MILES short defensively right now.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  10. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3XDouble View Post
    That would be a very foolish risk IMO. I would say the odds of keeping him are 10% or less. Obviously, that's pure speculation but I think most of the national press would agree the odds are low.
    Everyone wants immediate gratification which is a good way to stay bad. Just ask Brooklyn!

    If we have the money to pay George, go get a free agent instead of giving up several assets. You can't make the argument they won't come and they say George would stay.
    if we operate that way, why even have a team?

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  11. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3XDouble View Post
    That would be a very foolish risk IMO. I would say the odds of keeping him are 10% or less. Obviously, that's pure speculation but I think most of the national press would agree the odds are low.
    Everyone wants immediate gratification which is a good way to stay bad. Just ask Brooklyn!

    If we have the money to pay George, go get a free agent instead of giving up several assets. You can't make the argument they won't come and they say George would stay.
    Immediate gratification!? We've sucked for 15+ years!

    I get what you're saying, but we need to take some risks. Who's to say he doesn't like it here? If he meshes with the Towns and the guys, and we show we can win, why not stay? We have the money too.

    The thing is, building a team purely through the draft doesn't work anymore. In today's NBA, no team will ever win a Championship from a draft-built team. And since we don't attract FA's, we need to trade.

    Look at every top tier team in the league. FA's/trades are huge parts of those teams.

    If we sit around, year after year, going back to the draft where we hit and miss every other year, we're never going to improve.

  12. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellington19 View Post
    Immediate gratification!? We've sucked for 15+ years!

    I get what you're saying, but we need to take some risks. Who's to say he doesn't like it here? If he meshes with the Towns and the guys, and we show we can win, why not stay? We have the money too.

    The thing is, building a team purely through the draft doesn't work anymore. In today's NBA, no team will ever win a Championship from a draft-built team. And since we don't attract FA's, we need to trade.

    Look at every top tier team in the league. FA's/trades are huge parts of those teams.

    If we sit around, year after year, going back to the draft where we hit and miss every other year, we're never going to improve.
    Golden State won a chip with Curry, Klay and Green as the 3 best players. All drafted by the team.
    I agree with your point but just saying...

  13. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kia Kaha View Post
    Golden State won a chip with Curry, Klay and Green as the 3 best players. All drafted by the team.
    I agree with your point but just saying...
    I was going to say that too haha. But yeah, you have to draft, without a mistake, and then have luck on top of that. And it's not like GS didn't get great signings/trades in Iggy, Livingston, Speights, Lee, etc. The Warriors lucked out that Curry had glass ankles to begin his career and signed him to a steal of a deal, and were able to retain Green/Thompson, and still have some money left to fill out the roster. They have until after next year, and they will need to part with 1 of the 4 studs they have. No way around it. Bye bye Thompson...

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  14. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    that 03-04' team was SO good defensively though. And ..everyone on our roster was in their prime. Many years of real games behind them. On paper there are similarities, but there is so much growth to happen to our team, not in age per say, but just pure attitude, and professionalism. I think Towns is already as good as KG ever was offensively, but he is MILES short defensively right now.
    Exactly wat I said Hawks. Defense, experience and a leader. But there are similarities and I think that it was worth mentioning. And don't forget that both these teams had something else in common. Flip.

  15. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverson View Post
    Exactly wat I said Hawks. Defense, experience and a leader. But there are similarities and I think that it was worth mentioning. And don't forget that both these teams had something else in common. Flip.
    While I will never get my hopes up that much with our Wolves, I am really hoping to see a jump in defense next year. A Thib's led team should be in the top half of the league in defense. Just landing around 13-17 in the league bumps our win total up quite a bit.

    Not sure I see the same dichotomy. Cassell was our killer, KG clearly our best player. Do we have a Cassell on the roster? It's too early to tell, no doubt. Towns might very well be our killer too, but we do need, in the modern NBA, perimeter players who can destroy opponents off the dribble. Wiggins does from time to time, but it needs to be more consistent, and you all know my opinions on Wiggins to date.

    it's not like we shouldn't be optimistic of our future. I do think we are not going to get more than the 1 superstar from our current cast of youngsters, but that isn't the end of the world if Towns gets the right pieces around him

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

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