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  1. #196
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    Dec 2007
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    Not sure I give up a pick to dump salary. Id rather just try junk for junk then. Pretty much what MCW for Snell turned out to be. But Snell panned out with different scenery. Any suggestions of a pack of Henson and Telly could fetch for junk? Or Delly and either or? Henson and Telly for Crabbe?

    Crabbe's contract bad but he had a good shooting season I thought someone said on main NBA board in the bad contract thread. I didn't check his numbers. I suggested earlier about a Telly,Henson for Biyombo. But he regressed badly. Henson and Telly for Knight or Jackson? Or Delly and either or? What other junk would fit our system better? Really not to desperate for Mozgov or Deng though. lol

  2. #197
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    Nov 2008
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    Thing is, like you've pointed out, junk for junk isn't going to shed salary. Snell and mcw isn't the type of deal that Henson or delly are going to be part of, at least not for another two years when they are closer to expiring. A guy like biyombo doesn't do anything for me. He's trash and a waste of money.

    So the choice comes down to can we do better than the bad contracts we've given out in the past this time around in free agency. Part of me thinks yes because we have a better core of players to entice guys with, but on the flip side our history doesn't suggest we are successful in free agency. So who knows if freeing up money will help. But I do know that this team could use some muscle as a rebounder and a quicker guard. Those things aren't always going to be super easy to find in the draf, so having money available if that guy becomes available would be huge for us. That's why I'm not as opposed to packaging a pick with a bad deal to free up space. Ideally we'd get at least a later first or early second back, but who knows.

    I know everyone is labeling this as a strong draft. That's true at the top and even into the top 10 or so, but I don't think the draft is crazy deep. The guys avaialable at 17 aren't going to be a ton better than the guys typically available at 17.

  3. #198
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    449
    Today's consensus nbadraft.net mock has
    1 Bam
    2 Ike
    I would feel content with this draft.

  4. #199
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    Mar 2013
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    Went through a bunch of the mocks and compiled them to get an average of where they are projected to go to see who we likely will have to pick from.

    The Top 10 I didn't tabulate, but none of them were lower than the 12th pick in any mocks, so they are out of our draft range. Top 10 not in order: Fultz, Jackson, Ball, Tatum, Monk, Fox, Isaac, Smith, Markkanen, Ntilikina.

    I compiled this list from 8 popular and recent mocks on and threw out the highest and lowest for each player as flyers. As example 1 mock had Terrance Ferguson going at 8 and another at 59, with the other 6 between 15 and 22. The 8 and 59 were through out. Here are the results

    Z Collins ave pick 14.0
    J Allen ------------ 14.1
    OG Anunoby ------ 15.0
    TJ Leaf ------------ 15.1
    J Patton ---------- 16.7
    J Collins ---------- 17.0
    I Hartenstein ----- 17.6
    T. Ferguson ------- 18.3
    H Giles ------------ 20.3
    I Rabb -------------21.3
    J Jackson --------- 21.5
    R Kurocs ---------- 21.9
    L Kennard --------- 23.1

    Obviously we can expect that Z Collins, J Allen and OG Anunoby will be off the board, but players like Hartenstein, Rabb, Giles, Justin Jackson and Terrance Ferguson are most likely all available at 17. With a little luck Patton could fall to us, but these are most likely our targets at 17
    Last edited by HacksawButch; 04-20-2017 at 11:08 AM.

  5. #200
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    Jan 2011
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    587
    Celts fan here.....

    if the celtics could get both those kings first round pick #8 and #10......

    wud you guys trade the Greek Freak for #8,#10 and our 2017 nets pick(projected to be #1-4)......

    so the #1#8#10 for Antetokounmpo

    watcha say

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by esb View Post
    Celts fan here.....

    if the celtics could get both those kings first round pick #8 and #10......

    wud you guys trade the Greek Freak for #8,#10 and our 2017 nets pick(projected to be #1-4)......

    so the #1#8#10 for Antetokounmpo

    watcha say
    Not a chance. I wouldn't trade Giannis for picks 1, 8, 10 and Isaiha Thomas. Not even if you threw in your 1st round pick through 2025.

  7. #202
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    Aug 2014
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    Give us the 8 for Jabari

  8. #203
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    There is probably not a combination of players and picks the celts can offer for Giannis to be honest. That seems like an overstatement but Giannis has a chance at being a top 3 player in the NBA. No one on the celtics does and there's a very slim chance the potential first overall pick does.

    The only time you trade a potential once in a generation talent like Giannis is if they are expiring and likely to leave or you're getting back an equally as good player. He's not expiring and the celts can't offer anyone near his level, even if they get the first pick.

  9. #204
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    Jan 2011
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    587
    come ooooooon....
    the freak belongs in a Celtics uniform.....
    give him up

  10. #205
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    Then you should have had Dallas draft him for you instead of Kelly olynyk. Cuz that was your one shot at him.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by HacksawButch View Post
    Went through a bunch of the mocks and compiled them to get an average of where they are projected to go to see who we likely will have to pick from.

    The Top 10 I didn't tabulate, but none of them were lower than the 12th pick in any mocks, so they are out of our draft range. Top 10 not in order: Fultz, Jackson, Ball, Tatum, Monk, Fox, Isaac, Smith, Markkanen, Ntilikina.

    I compiled this list from 8 popular and recent mocks on and threw out the highest and lowest for each player as flyers. As example 1 mock had Terrance Ferguson going at 8 and another at 59, with the other 6 between 15 and 22. The 8 and 59 were through out. Here are the results

    Z Collins ave pick 14.0
    J Allen ------------ 14.1
    OG Anunoby ------ 15.0
    TJ Leaf ------------ 15.1
    J Patton ---------- 16.7
    J Collins ---------- 17.0
    I Hartenstein ----- 17.6
    T. Ferguson ------- 18.3
    H Giles ------------ 20.3
    I Rabb -------------21.3
    J Jackson --------- 21.5
    R Kurocs ---------- 21.9
    L Kennard --------- 23.1

    Obviously we can expect that Z Collins, J Allen and OG Anunoby will be off the board, but players like Hartenstein, Rabb, Giles, Justin Jackson and Terrance Ferguson are most likely all available at 17. With a little luck Patton could fall to us, but these are most likely our targets at 17
    Interesting analysis. I think collins will be an interesting guy. Since he sort of was a surprise this year, his combine measurements and testing will probably be important. But i agree, if he tests out okay, he's probably for by our pick.

    I think ferguson and hartenstien are going to be interesting cases. Once draft season kicks into full swing, those guys are both guys who may start climbing, which could push someone like Allen or Collins down a little.

    I've been seeing more and more people that are sort of down on rabb. He didn't really improve at all this year. And that always worries team. So many of these guys are going to need quite a bit of improvement and if some of these guys aren't improving, it worries teams that guys may not have as much projection as needed.
    Last edited by crewfan13; 04-22-2017 at 02:37 PM.

  12. #207
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    When I made that list, I was thinking our player would be either Hartenstein, Ferguson, Patton or Jackson, unless Allen or Z Collins fell to us. After hereing the anouncers talk during the game about J Kidd asking each player if we are an offensive team or a defensive team and every man said we're a defensive team, that changed my thinking. Now I believe that the player we want to fall to us is O G Anunoby. He missed most of the season with an injury, but when he played, Indiana was knocking off the top teams in the country and after he got hurt, the team fell apart. He is a 6'8" supper athletic wing with a 7'5" wing span that has 1st team all defense written all over him. He would be the player to defend Lebron and likely would be switched onto Derozan as well. His offensive game is a work in progress, but if we are building a defensive team, we may want to draft a great defensive player with high upside.

    It's fairly likely that he might not be available at 17, but if some of the foreign players move up the board and with the injury, perhaps he'll be available at 17.
    Last edited by HacksawButch; 04-23-2017 at 02:41 PM.

  13. #208
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    I actually think the opposite a little. If we are a defensive team and have decent defenders, we probably need offensive help. And I think the last game against the raptors was a good example. Maybe getting jabari back will help, but outside of Giannis, we have no one that can consistently get okay looks. We don't have any guys that can get to the basket.

    With thon starting to show off his skills. We have a guy who may be able to play center. And if we want to try to extend moose, then I don't think center is a need. And Parker is still a pf with Giannis capable of playing pf (perhaps it's his best spot defensively.) So I don't see big as a major need. If moose leaves, then backup big may be a need.

    But to me, guard is a much bigger need. Particularly a guard who can penetrate. We are so reliant on Giannis driving and guys hitting open jumpers. But if that isn't happening, our offense is goes into major lulls. If we could find a guard who can penetrate and either get easy looks at the rim or draw fouls, it's sort of a fallback option on offense.

    Honestly, I don't know how realistic this is, but for me, a great offseason would be sign and trade snell for a 2nd. Package the 2 2nds we'd then have with delly to a team like Philly looking to eat a salary to acquire picks for basically nothing in a salary dump. Then package Henson and our first to a team like Brooklyn for their late first (pick 28 or so I believe) in another salary dump deal. Then pick Donovan Mitchell with pick 28.

    Then (this is really a long shot pipe dream at this point), we convince moose to opt out. After the salary dumps and moose opting out, we have money to sign a veteran point guard. Since we've had him for 2 years, we have early bird rights on moose, so we can then resign him to say a 3 year deal after we sign the point guard.

    At that point, we'd be thin to an extent until Parker returns. But once Parker returns, is start vet pg, Middleton, Giannis, Parker and thon with Brogdon, moose and telly as some bench options worth Donovan and Vaughn also fighting for minutes. We'd still need a vet pf and or sf, but that would be a guy we could try to find on the cheap.

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I actually think the opposite a little. If we are a defensive team and have decent defenders, we probably need offensive help. And I think the last game against the raptors was a good example. Maybe getting jabari back will help, but outside of Giannis, we have no one that can consistently get okay looks. We don't have any guys that can get to the basket.

    With thon starting to show off his skills. We have a guy who may be able to play center. And if we want to try to extend moose, then I don't think center is a need. And Parker is still a pf with Giannis capable of playing pf (perhaps it's his best spot defensively.) So I don't see big as a major need. If moose leaves, then backup big may be a need.

    But to me, guard is a much bigger need. Particularly a guard who can penetrate. We are so reliant on Giannis driving and guys hitting open jumpers. But if that isn't happening, our offense is goes into major lulls. If we could find a guard who can penetrate and either get easy looks at the rim or draw fouls, it's sort of a fallback option on offense.

    Honestly, I don't know how realistic this is, but for me, a great offseason would be sign and trade snell for a 2nd. Package the 2 2nds we'd then have with delly to a team like Philly looking to eat a salary to acquire picks for basically nothing in a salary dump. Then package Henson and our first to a team like Brooklyn for their late first (pick 28 or so I believe) in another salary dump deal. Then pick Donovan Mitchell with pick 28.

    Then (this is really a long shot pipe dream at this point), we convince moose to opt out. After the salary dumps and moose opting out, we have money to sign a veteran point guard. Since we've had him for 2 years, we have early bird rights on moose, so we can then resign him to say a 3 year deal after we sign the point guard.

    At that point, we'd be thin to an extent until Parker returns. But once Parker returns, is start vet pg, Middleton, Giannis, Parker and thon with Brogdon, moose and telly as some bench options worth Donovan and Vaughn also fighting for minutes. We'd still need a vet pf and or sf, but that would be a guy we could try to find on the cheap.
    I really think Bucks can get more for Snell than that, picks wise. At least a first. Maybe late second and 2018 first. He is making himself money this postseason. The Bucks half-court offense has been inconsistent all year long. Brogdon isn't quick enough to get to the rim consistently. Giannis isn't confident in his jumper unless he hits early. If not he forces drives. How many 8-10 footers did guys pass up for contest layups in traffic or turn it over? Middleton can't get same separation with hamstring injury hampering conditioning.

    Bucks need a PG or SG that can go get buckets, get to the rim consistently but also have a jumpshot...badly.

  15. #210
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    Nov 2008
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    Whatever you think snell is worth, cut it in half at least for a sign and trade. We got a heck of a sign and trade deal for Brandon Jennings, but at the time knight and Middleton were just guys. Jennings was a guy who at least had a borderline all star season.

    For the most part, you lack leverage in sign and trade deals. If you're discussing a sign and trade, that probably means you arent super interested in signing the guy outright or matching a contract. So that's why I'd say snell is worth a second in that scenario. Just try to give the illusion that we are thinking about matching and have them sweeten the pot a little.

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