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  1. #3571
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    I don't understand the whole obsession with needing to call it a terrorist attack off the bat. My understanding has always been that a terrorist attack means you were doing it as part of or on behalf of an organization bigger than yourself. I never looked at it as those being any more or less fatal. Just the basic fact that if something is being done on an organizational level then it's probably more likely to be widespread so it gets priority over some individual who just wasn't put in the looney bin. I don't understand why that's such a huge thing for people. I get the annoying stereotype that if a Muslim does it we automatically assume ISIS but overall the whole "we don't call white people shooting terrorists" seems like fake offended stuff to me
    I think they immediately cal it a terror attack because in a sense, it gives a reason for something like this. "They hate us. That's why this happened" As opposed to, "why did this happen?"
    And a terror attack can be used to unify and get more people angry at one group and not each other. It can fan the flames of us vs them.

    There can absolutely be white terror attacks. I don't think this was one. I don't think this guy wanted to scare anyone. I think he wanted to kill and maim as many as he could. Terror was a result but not the intention.
    I think you stated it quite well, when you address the organizational level.




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  2. #3572
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyc77 View Post
    You’re right my bad. I missed it.

    But it’s an opinion piece, it’s not suppose to be littered with facts.
    We don't have the ability as a nation to separate those two things. We don't get facts. We get opinions about facts so by the time the fact is spoken, the viewer/reader/listener has already been filled with what they should think about it.

    There are still good news sources. They are just boring and take more time to read or watch.




    You see what you want to see and you hear what you want to hear.

  3. #3573
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    I saw a story on that police shooting of Patrick Harmon will not be charged. this is the first I'm hearing of this name/incident, so I didn't know any details at all.
    I saw one article and picture with information that Patrick Harmon was shot as he was running away. my first reaction was that it would be wrong for police to shoot someone in the back as they were running away.
    I also went and found this article with more information..

    http://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/07...ptured-camera/

    Outcry over Utah fatal police shooting captured on camera
    Anti-police brutality groups in Utah are livid after a prosecutor this week determined police were legally justified in a fatal shooting of a black man in August that was captured on body camera video released this week.

    While one video appears to show the victim, Patrick Harmon, 50, shot from behind as he ran from police, a slowed-down version shows he pivoted toward officers with a knife
    , Salt Lake County District Attorney Sim Gill said Friday.


    first I want to say this was a justified stop.
    why did Harmon run?

    if you watch the video from the tweet included, the video pauses where Harmon turned with a knife. is that not a justifiable threat?

    ideally non lethal action would have been better. I had questioned whether the officers had taser, and I read that a taser was also used at the same time as one officer used his gun..

    https://www.bustle.com/p/who-was-pat...e-back-2802260

    Patrick Harmon was riding his bicycle without a red reflecting taillight when he was pulled over in Salt Lake City on Aug. 13. That traffic infraction would eventually led to Harmon's death, as recently released video footage from a police bodycam shows the 50-year-old being shot in the back by police at point-blank range.

    Before the situation escalated, Harmon seemed "emotional and distraught" while speaking with police, according to testimony provided by police officer Clinton Fox. He had two outstanding warrants for his arrest, and appears to plead with police in the video, saying that he does not want to go back to jail.

    Then Harmon tried to run away. The police footage shows him fleeing in the opposite direction from the officers. One of them tried to shoot Harmon with his taser, but Fox pulled his gun and fired three times at Harmon, who fell immediately to the ground.

    While he was face down on the concrete groaning, Harmon was handcuffed. The officers did attempt to provide first aid to him, but Harmon would pass away shortly thereafter.

    There have been no charges filed in this case, as prosecutors argued that Fox was acting out of fear for his life and well-being, and that of the officers with him. It's a common defense the police employ, one that is well-known to those on all sides involved in the debate over police brutality in America.

    Fox's claim that he felt imperiled by Harmon is not clearly evidenced by the police footage. Harmon seems disoriented and upset, and when he flees there is no obvious indication that he was trying to threaten the police.

    Fox's defense has been further called into question due to his own words documented in the video. "I'll f--king shoot you!" he yells at Harmon before almost immediately firing three times at a man running away from him.

    Salt Lake City has implemented a de-escalation training program for its police force that has earned widespread praise. The goal is to help officers develop skills that allow them to tamp down excess force rather than ratchet up high stress situations. They've given out awards to officers who put these de-escalation techniques into practice. For instance, one officer actually backed up as a suspect threatened him with a knife, then used his police car as cover to regroup, and ended up choosing to tase the suspect rather than fatally shoot him.

    Until May 2017, the Salt Lake City police force had gone 20 months without a fatal shooting.

    But those lauded de-escalation practices don't register in the police footage. Lex Scott, a Black Lives Matter organizer in the city, told The Guardian, "That officer disregarded his de-escalation training. It's just brutal. How could anyone with eyes and ears believe that that officer was justified?”

    Harmon's family agrees. "They just murdered him flat out," said niece Alicia Shaw. “They are lying. There is no way they were threatened by anything. He was only trying to get away.”

    While Harmon was questioned, he told officers they may find a warrant for him. And the officers did discover Harmon had been convicted of aggravated assault, a second-degree felony. That was followed by a second $10,000 felony warrant for Harmon after he did not show up for sentencing.

    Fox also testified that he had seen a knife in Harmon's possession. “Fox said that in ten years of law enforcement and two military deployments, it was the scariest situation he had ever been in,” stated a report by investigators.

    Still, the video footage will likely strike many as evidence of unnecessary force used against a fleeing suspect.

    this is the type of situation where I tell people to consider all details. Harmon did turn to run. that was not threatening. we see in the video paused that Harmon did turn and did have a knife. I do think that the use of shooting in this incident looks to be too soon. even if Harmon had completely turned with the knife could he really have done something with the knife against the police with 1 or more having their guns drawn. the officer(s) could have just used their guns drawn to yell at Harmon to drop the knife. they could have/should have waited to see if Harmon would have done anything that would have been considered a threatening move.



  4. #3574
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    I saw a story on that police shooting of Patrick Harmon will not be charged. this is the first I'm hearing of this name/incident, so I didn't know any details at all.
    I saw one article and picture with information that Patrick Harmon was shot as he was running away. my first reaction was that it would be wrong for police to shoot someone in the back as they were running away.
    I also went and found this article with more information..

    http://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/07...ptured-camera/





    first I want to say this was a justified stop.
    why did Harmon run?

    if you watch the video from the tweet included, the video pauses where Harmon turned with a knife. is that not a justifiable threat?

    ideally non lethal action would have been better. I had questioned whether the officers had taser, and I read that a taser was also used at the same time as one officer used his gun..

    https://www.bustle.com/p/who-was-pat...e-back-2802260




    this is the type of situation where I tell people to consider all details. Harmon did turn to run. that was not threatening. we see in the video paused that Harmon did turn and did have a knife. I do think that the use of shooting in this incident looks to be too soon. even if Harmon had completely turned with the knife could he really have done something with the knife against the police with 1 or more having their guns drawn. the officer(s) could have just used their guns drawn to yell at Harmon to drop the knife. they could have/should have waited to see if Harmon would have done anything that would have been considered a threatening move.
    I don't know if he really made the threat or not. But it's a ****ed up world when you get pulled over on a bicycle reflector violation and someone ends up dead. Non lethal weapons are a thing and they should be mandatory.

  5. #3575
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    I don't know if he really made the threat or not. But it's a ****ed up world when you get pulled over on a bicycle reflector violation and someone ends up dead. Non lethal weapons are a thing and they should be mandatory.
    I can agree that non lethal weapons should be used. but it wasn't the pulling over for reflector violation that caused him to end up dead. we see the video where he had his arms behind his back to be handcuffed before he decided to run. had he allowed the officer to handcuff him he would have went to jail and not been shot.



  6. #3576
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    If I had a dollar for every time I saw Special write "ideally, non lethal means should have been used"

  7. #3577
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    Jun 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    I can agree that non lethal weapons should be used. but it wasn't the pulling over for reflector violation that caused him to end up dead. we see the video where he had his arms behind his back to be handcuffed before he decided to run. had he allowed the officer to handcuff him he would have went to jail and not been shot.
    Actually, it's wasn't the running away that got him shot, it's the officer pulling out his gun and shooting him that got him shot..lol, **** man, cmon!

  8. #3578
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    I can agree that non lethal weapons should be used. but it wasn't the pulling over for reflector violation that caused him to end up dead. we see the video where he had his arms behind his back to be handcuffed before he decided to run. had he allowed the officer to handcuff him he would have went to jail and not been shot.
    No, but it's the start of the chain of events.

  9. #3579
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    Oct 2017
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  10. #3580
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    Oct 2017
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    Do you have many enemies some enemies that you are not even aware of?
    Are you having many obstacles in your life?
    Is your love life falling apart?
    Is your life facing financial ruin?
    Do you need protection from your enemies?
    If you seek a lost lover, or want a new lover, we can help. We reunite lost lover`s and help others find their soul mate on a regular basis with a real and powerful love spells casting. love spells caster helping people country world-wide.
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