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  1. #2281
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    FNK, the problem with your posts are that you seem to place individual incidents above across the board trends. Whereas most of us are doing the opposite.

    When the trend says blacks are treated unfairly, no one gives a **** about an individual inicident in which that isn't the case. because it in no way addresses the trend
    I can see that, and I disagree.
    generally overall black people are treated differently. I'm not denying that. I can see the numbers/statistics.

    I'm not dealing in generally. I look at case by case by case basis and make a determination based on the details/evidence involved.



    .
    Last edited by SpecialFNK; 03-15-2017 at 07:40 PM.


    just because I post a lot, does not mean it is disruptive

  2. #2282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    well, when blacks stop being targeted for no reason, maybe police will get more benefit of the doubt....

    chicken or egg brother, which happens first?
    Better training?

    I honestly think better training will help, not cure it, but help. It's like many cops fuse instinct is pull gun out and if I see something funny shoot and then figure things out. For the most part they get the benefit of the doubt and many times not even get indicted. I seen videos of both whites and blacks getting killed or shot by cops who are just quick to shoot or are ****ing scared so any movement they deem a threat, they shoot.

    Now as far as systemic racism goes, training my not solve it. The black guy carrying a gun in an open carry state is likely to be shot more often than the white guy doing the same or even treated differently. But again better training may help, but under this new AG I don't see that happening, it's going to be more benefit of the doubt for cops.


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  3. #2283
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    police officers are also aware of a lot of situations that most of the public are not, like how police are shot at even during routine traffic stops. that is why they are on edge in routine traffic stops because they know they have to be prepared.


    just because I post a lot, does not mean it is disruptive

  4. #2284
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    police officers are also aware of a lot of situations that most of the public are not, like how police are shot at even during routine traffic stops. that is why they are on edge in routine traffic stops because they know they have to be prepared.
    The public isn't aware that cops have been shot at during traffic stops before??

    Is this candian public? I know it sure as hell ain't the American public you talking about...

  5. #2285
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    The public isn't aware that cops have been shot at during traffic stops before??

    Is this candian public? I know it sure as hell ain't the American public you talking about...
    they don't typically cover police being shot at during something like a routine traffic stop. that's why you have people overreacting when police shoot at people with threatening moves in a reaction, because typically the public has no way of know this happens as often as it does.


    http://www.forcescience.org/nosuchthing.html


    Saint Paul Pioneer Press Column by Rubén Rosario:

    In my 34 years as a working journalist here and back East, I've covered more than a dozen slayings of police officers and attended the impressive, as well as moving, funeral services and processions that often follow. It was no different this week as veteran Mendota Heights police officer Scott Patrick was laid to rest as thousands of fellow police officers and citizens paid tribute.

    The married father of two was fatally shot during what has been described as a "routine" traffic stop. Well, sure, many of them are what most of us would think are routine. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, nearly half of all face-to-face encounters annually between police and members of the general public take place during a traffic stop, mostly without incident.

    Minnesota state troopers conducted more than 1 million traffic stops in the past three years, an average of about 360,000 annually, according to State Trooper Lt. Eric Roeske.

    But as we saw July 30 in West St. Paul, they also pose, along with disturbance calls, one of the most potentially dangerous scenarios for police officers.
    Patrick, 47, was shot as he approached a vehicle, unaware the driver was not the registered owner but a wanted fugitive with a long rap sheet who faced three years in prison for a probation violation. Witnesses said Patrick never got a word out or a chance to pull his gun in defense. He was ambushed from the driver's side by an individual who will likely now face life in prison without parole for the murder.

    According to FBI Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted reports, 62 officers were killed during traffic stops from 2003 to 2012.
    That does not include 34 others who died during and after vehicle pursuits. Most involved shootouts like the one that took place in St. Paul between police and Patrick's suspected killer, Brian Fitch, hours after the slaying. In 2012, 4,450 officers were wounded or assaulted in various manners during traffic stops.

    Improving officers' safety and analyzing their reactions during stops that turned dangerous was the centerpiece of a much-cited study conducted last year by the Mankato-based Force Science Institute.

    Ninety cops from 22 police agencies in Washington and Oregon took part in the exercise. Officers were asked to approach the driver, a study researcher playing the role of a belligerent motorist acting that way to intentionally distract the officer. The participants, 80 men and 13 women, were told to approach the vehicle at various angles and stand near a line that delineated the B-pillar section of the vehicle, near the outer edge of the closed driver's-side door.

    The B pillar is also the leading edge to an area in the rear of the vehicle called the mitigation zone, where officers can retreat for cover in case things go south. The participants were told only that they would be conducting routine traffic stops that may or may not escalate.

    The study, billed as the first to systematically evaluate police officer responses to the threat of lethal force during a routine traffic stop, found that:

    -- The driver, armed with a fake gun resting on the console, was able to pick it up and shoot 90 of 93 participants several times before the officers could return fire. It can take a quarter of a second for a driver to pick up a gun in such a location and fire off a shot

    -- One officer deflected the weapon and shot the driver; another subdued the motorist with a choke maneuver before he could fire, and a third struck the gun away as it discharged. Nine others tried similar reactions but were shot. Cops are generally trained to move forward and neutralize potential harm rather than retreat when they are in such close proximity.

    -- Officers who drew their weapons after they had entered the mitigation zone were on average 0.39 seconds faster reaching that safety area than officers who drew their weapons as they retreated.

    -- Officers who approached the motorist from the passenger side got to the safety zone an average of a half-second quicker than those who approached from the driver's side.

    "Such a small window of time could mean the difference between life and death in the field," the researchers noted in the study

    'NO SUCH THING AS A ROUTINE STOP'

    William Lewinski, the institute's executive director and a behavioral scientist and police psychologist, has presented the study's findings to hundreds of police agencies across the country. A member of the The International Association of Chiefs of Police's tactical patrol operations committee, he said the group may officially promote the passenger-side approach as a preferred method, pending conditions and circumstances.

    But Lewinski stressed that there's no guarantee that even the best preparation and training will fully protect officers from such lethal harm, in part because the criminal has the element of surprise.

    "What happened in (West St. Paul) is such a tragedy," he said. "The actor who starts the action always has the jump."

    Roeske said the last state trooper to be shot and killed during a traffic stop in Minnesota was Donald Zeismer in 1973 on Minnesota 61 on the North Shore.

    Still, he said, "There is no such thing as a routine stop." The murder of Officer Scott Patrick is a somber reminder of that.


    just because I post a lot, does not mean it is disruptive

  6. #2286
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    Hmm if a cop gets shot, everybody and their father, mother, sons, grandmother and so on knows. It becomes major news in every local station and some national stations.


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  7. #2287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    Hmm if a cop gets shot, everybody and their father, mother, sons, grandmother and so on knows. It becomes major news in every local station and some national stations.


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    local news maybe. but major news like CNN, nope.


    just because I post a lot, does not mean it is disruptive

  8. #2288
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    local news maybe. but major news like CNN, nope.
    lmao!! This is the problem with a Canadian overly concerning himself with American politics..

  9. #2289
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    lmao!! This is the problem with a Canadian overly concerning himself with American politics..
    so after I post something proving how I said police officers are targeted at even routine traffic stops, you have to ignore that and deflect to something else.
    nobody ever going to agree with me or admit that I'm right about something.


    just because I post a lot, does not mean it is disruptive

  10. #2290
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    so after I post something proving how I said police officers are targeted at even routine traffic stops, you have to ignore that and deflect to something else.
    nobody ever going to agree with me or admit that I'm right about something.
    You act like policemen being shot during routine traffic stops is some groundbreaking revelation to share. News flash: it's not. We're all aware that being a police officer can be dangerous. Doesn't mean every time they injure or kill a citizen it should be brushed away as nothing more than an honest reaction to a stressful situation. There must be accountability.

    "there's no shines in my shinebox"

  11. #2291
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    You act like policemen being shot during routine traffic stops is some groundbreaking revelation to share. News flash: it's not. We're all aware that being a police officer can be dangerous. Doesn't mean every time they injure or kill a citizen it should be brushed away as nothing more than an honest reaction to a stressful situation. There must be accountability.
    I bet there are a lot of people that are actually not aware police officers are shot at/attacked during a traffic stop.
    a lot of people are also not aware being police officer is dangerous, which is evident by how often some people want to throw out links about how being police officer is not a dangerous job, based on the number of deaths per job. except that isn't the way it should be done since something can be dangerous without resulting in a death. (to everyone, save your links on dangerous jobs)
    I also never said anything should be brushed away. I believe every situation should be looked and judged based on the details. but often that doesn't happen, and instead some people want to automatically assume a police officer is guilty/racist for shooting what happened to be someone black.
    I think the reason some people react the way they do when there is a shooting is they can't believe a police officer would shoot someone at a traffic stop, as if there would be no threat there because they are not aware of how often there actually is a threat to police officers.


    just because I post a lot, does not mean it is disruptive

  12. #2292
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    Again: maybe in Canada but that sure ain't the case here. Looks more like you just circling back to your same old, tired arguments.

    "there's no shines in my shinebox"

  13. #2293
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    Does anyone else feel like not agreeing with special is reverse racism?

  14. #2294
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    Again: maybe in Canada but that sure ain't the case here. Looks more like you just circling back to your same old, tired arguments.
    I guarantee you that is accurate in America. I've read enough links to know.
    watch enough CNN and Foxnews and I don't see stories very often with police officers being injured/shot at. it doesn't become big news.


    just because I post a lot, does not mean it is disruptive

  15. #2295
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    You can take your lame "guarantee" and stuff it in a sack. Hilarious that you think you are so in tune with the general pulse of America because you "watch enough CNN and Foxnews".

    "there's no shines in my shinebox"

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