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  1. #31
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    Braves Trade Discussion and Rumors

    I'm just thinking out loud here but I'm not so sure Wisler is untouchable (even before his recent struggles). We have so many starting pitching prospects that I can't see him holding up a trade especially if it brings us a big bat or two.

    3x WWEWHC / 2015 Royal Rumble Match Winner / 1X WWE Tag Team Champion / 2014 WWE Superstar of The Year

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SB75 View Post
    If we are serious about being competitive in 2017, Yulieski Gourriel should be considered. He dose not hurt our int FA pool and he can play now..... Although he will command a nice Salery.
    I'm all for going after him and then signing his brother in October

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by NBA_Starter View Post
    I'm just thinking out loud here but I'm not so sure Wisler is untouchable (even before his recent struggles). We have so many starting pitching prospects that I can't see him holding up a trade especially if it brings us a big bat or two.
    Is not like he's untouchable but trading him doesn't make much sense, he's not good enough (yet) to be traded for a good bat, he won't net us one, and trading him when/if he becomes a good pitcher won't be necesary (probably) because by that time we are going to be trading prospects because we should be on the verge of contending.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by beldugo View Post
    No one in the front office is serious about contending in 2017, even if they wanted it's impossible.
    Ehh, i think they can by next year. If we keep Teheran. Wisler, Folty, Blair, Smith take that next step. Albies and Swanson up. Also they will have A LOT of $$ to spend with the new stadium. While most are freaking out about the power outage and lack of big bat, coppy has repeatly said they can go buy a bat if need be. Braves may not conted for a WS next year, but i can see them getting in the WC hunt. So if they sign Gurriel

    Smith
    Albies
    Freeman
    Gurriel
    Markakis
    Swanson
    Cumberland ( yea im hopeful he can rise through the system quickly)
    Inciarte

    Not a terrible looking line up.
    Last edited by SunKhan13; 06-14-2016 at 10:45 AM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by beldugo View Post
    No one in the front office is serious about contending in 2017, even if they wanted it's impossible.
    Idk.... I think it's to early to make that call. I think a lot depends on how they play in the 2nd half, if they show improvement it could be. Not even win loss improvement, just overall improvement where the FO thinks one or two bats can make a huge difference.

  6. #36
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    As stated above.... If the Braved are able to sign Gouriell and Swanson and Albies are ready, trading for a bat with hopes of contending are very real!

  7. #37
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    Gourriell should be good, but it's still a bit of a risk to sign a 32 year old with no MLB experience and expect him to be a star. (see Olivera)

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunKhan13 View Post
    Ehh, i think they can by next year. If we keep Teheran. Wisler, Folty, Blair, Smith take that next step. Albies and Swanson up. Also they will have A LOT of $$ to spend with the new stadium. While most are freaking out about the power outage and lack of big bat, coppy has repeatly said they can go buy a bat if need be. Braves may not conted for a WS next year, but i can see them getting in the WC hunt. So if they sign Gurriel

    Smith
    Albies
    Freeman
    Gurriel
    Markakis
    Swanson
    Cumberland ( yea im hopeful he can rise through the system quickly)
    Inciarte

    Not a terrible looking line up.
    Look, I want the Braves to succeed as much as you do but that's wishful thinking. Yes if all of those players take a step forward we could be a decent team, but that's not really probable. Wisler hasn't show much progress so far, Blair is getting destroyed out there, Smith and Folty are looking nice but they need to keep improving to make this team good. Both Swanson and Albies are struggling in the minors so we shouldn't count on them contributing this season, they should both be in the majors next year but they probably will struggle at first.

    Cumberland won't be a major league catcher and him contributing to the Braves in 2017 would be a huge surprise.

    There were a lot of people here who opposed Hart/Coppy when they traded for Olivera because he was a 31 year old rookie and we were rebuilding, I didn't like it when they signed Markakis either (for the same reasons) those two moves were a mistake by the FO because they wanted to contend before we were ready and now we have two problems, Olivera is not a good hitter and we lost some valuable pieces in the trade and Markakis is a below average player who we are paying more than 10M annually. Signing Gurriel will be another mistake because we aren't ready, we should get younger not signing a 32 year old rookie who might be past his prime.

    Let's keep getting better one step at a time, let's keep our financial flexibility because we are going to need it when our youngster became good players. There's no shame on being a bad team next season, 2018 is when we need to see some results.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by beldugo View Post
    Look, I want the Braves to succeed as much as you do but that's wishful thinking. Yes if all of those players take a step forward we could be a decent team, but that's not really probable. Wisler hasn't show much progress so far, Blair is getting destroyed out there, Smith and Folty are looking nice but they need to keep improving to make this team good. Both Swanson and Albies are struggling in the minors so we shouldn't count on them contributing this season, they should both be in the majors next year but they probably will struggle at first.

    Cumberland won't be a major league catcher and him contributing to the Braves in 2017 would be a huge surprise.

    There were a lot of people here who opposed Hart/Coppy when they traded for Olivera because he was a 31 year old rookie and we were rebuilding, I didn't like it when they signed Markakis either (for the same reasons) those two moves were a mistake by the FO because they wanted to contend before we were ready and now we have two problems, Olivera is not a good hitter and we lost some valuable pieces in the trade and Markakis is a below average player who we are paying more than 10M annually. Signing Gurriel will be another mistake because we aren't ready, we should get younger not signing a 32 year old rookie who might be past his prime.

    Let's keep getting better one step at a time, let's keep our financial flexibility because we are going to need it when our youngster became good players. There's no shame on being a bad team next season, 2018 is when we need to see some results.
    It sure is probable. Wisler, 2 starts ago was flirting with an ERA under 3, now hes had a couple bad starts and we want to say hes made no progress? He put together a bunch of good starts in a row together, now he just needs consistancy. His problem is actually having too much control. Blair will probably have the rest of the year. Yea hes getting rocked, but you cant say for sure he wont figure something out now until September. I agree 2018 is the year thats most likely, i am just giving scenerios where i can see them start turning the corner next year. Also, if your saying 2018, why not sign Gurriel then? Would he not be an important peice in 2018? Why does his signing have to be all abput 2017? He should have more than 1 year left in the tank. I know theres no shame on being bad next year. I am just pumped for what the future holds and want it to happen soon haha. Cubs won 73 games just two years ago.

  10. #40
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    You can also sign and flip him for prospects later!

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunKhan13 View Post
    It sure is probable. Wisler, 2 starts ago was flirting with an ERA under 3, now hes had a couple bad starts and we want to say hes made no progress? He put together a bunch of good starts in a row together, now he just needs consistancy. His problem is actually having too much control. Blair will probably have the rest of the year. Yea hes getting rocked, but you cant say for sure he wont figure something out now until September. I agree 2018 is the year thats most likely, i am just giving scenerios where i can see them start turning the corner next year. Also, if your saying 2018, why not sign Gurriel then? Would he not be an important peice in 2018? Why does his signing have to be all abput 2017? He should have more than 1 year left in the tank. I know theres no shame on being bad next year. I am just pumped for what the future holds and want it to happen soon haha. Cubs won 73 games just two years ago.
    Let's take an in depth look at Matt Wisler to see how much he's improved.

    He had a terrific May in which he had 2.51 ERA 3.14 FIP 6.07 K/9 2.09 BB/9 0.42 HR/9.
    He faced: Mets, Phillies (Twice), KC, MIL and SFG.

    Matt Wisler dominated the Mets in 2015 so he just keep doing it this season, he faced a terrible Philadelphia lineup twice, an average lineup in KC, a below average in MIL and a good lineup in SF. So he put together a bunch of good starts, yes, but against some bad offense. Good offensive teams like STL, WSH, BOS and CHC have killed him, but hey, those teams can kill anybody they are ranked 2nd, 10th, 1st, 3rd offensively so I won't be too hard on Wisler here. He's been great against bad offensive teams and awful against great offensive teams.

    Now let's go to 2015.

    He had a similar stretch (ERA wise) between September 9th till the end of the season, 2.89 ERA 7.39 K/9 2.89 BB/9 1.29 HR/9

    He faced the Mets (Twice), Nats (twice) and Blue Jays.

    Like I said before he dominated the Mets last season and they were a very good offensive team, the Nats were an average offensive team last season and Wisler was dominant in both starts, the Blue Jays were the top offensive team last season and Wisler had his worst start of the month allowing 4 ER in 6IP. This was a nice month by Wisler because he faced some good competition and even against the best offensive team in the major he wasn't terrible.

    So we've seen Matt Wisler have stretch like this one (this May) before and against better competition he needs to show us that he can be consistent and beat some good teams, he hasn't show that this season.

    Looking at his numbers the progress looks evident, more strikeouts, less walks and better ERA so far this season. But if you look closer the progress is not that evident, He's allowing 38% of Hard contact this season, he was at 28.2% in 2015. His SwStr% is down from 8.1% last season to 7.7% this tells us that the spike in strikeouts are thanks to called strikes that could very well be an improvement in his command.

    So, besides improvements in his K/9 and BB/9 there hasn't been much progress, Wisler ERA is not higher thanks to a .249 BABIP. And that's after a month facing terrible offense. Like I said he hasn't showed enough progress so far that I can start saying "Yeah, he can help us being a wildcard contenders next season".

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunKhan13 View Post
    It sure is probable. Wisler, 2 starts ago was flirting with an ERA under 3, now hes had a couple bad starts and we want to say hes made no progress? He put together a bunch of good starts in a row together, now he just needs consistancy. His problem is actually having too much control. Blair will probably have the rest of the year. Yea hes getting rocked, but you cant say for sure he wont figure something out now until September. I agree 2018 is the year thats most likely, i am just giving scenerios where i can see them start turning the corner next year. Also, if your saying 2018, why not sign Gurriel then? Would he not be an important peice in 2018? Why does his signing have to be all abput 2017? He should have more than 1 year left in the tank. I know theres no shame on being bad next year. I am just pumped for what the future holds and want it to happen soon haha. Cubs won 73 games just two years ago.
    I won't sign Gurriel now because of timing, Yulieski will be 34 years old for most of the 2018 season. His best two years in the majors are probably 2016 (If he signs soon and get to the bigs this year) and 2017, after that he might start declining (if it hasn't started yet), the risk of signing him is too big right now. He won't make a difference in 2016 or 2017 and in an eventual competitive season in 2018 he might be an average player so I don't see why pay him a ton of money right now while by the time we really need him he won't be good, and that's assuming he's a good player he can also suck like Olivera, Tomas, Castillo etc...

    Don't worry, by the time we are good again there will be another "can't miss" Cuban player that we could sign.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SB75 View Post
    You can also sign and flip him for prospects later!
    Sure, or he can also be sunk cost like Yasmani Tomas, Hector Olivera, Rusney Castillo an others. The risk is not worth it when you aren't close to contention.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by beldugo View Post
    Sure, or he can also be sunk cost like Yasmani Tomas, Hector Olivera, Rusney Castillo an others. The risk is not worth it when you aren't close to contention.
    And he could turn out to be great and deliver a missive return. Point is we have money to spend in the budget, if the price is right for us, we shouldn't shy away. If it gets to be monsterous, I understand.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SB75 View Post
    And he could turn out to be great and deliver a missive return. Point is we have money to spend in the budget, if the price is right for us, we shouldn't shy away. If it gets to be monsterous, I understand.
    That's exactly the issue, since he's unproven and hasn't play outside of Cuba and 62 games in Japan he could be anything, that won't be a big issue if he was 20 something but at 32 he needs to produce right away and that's a risk I don't think the Braves should/will take.

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