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  1. #1
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    Orioles Off-Season Discussion Thread

    Lot of smoke around the Orioles so far this offseason. Huge offer out to CD, talks with Yovanni/Kazmir/J-Up, etc. Hopefully if O's can't hold onto CD we can get J-Up at least.

  2. #2
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    Davis wants 8 years, $200 million. Methinks that is too rich for our blood. Once I heard we made an offer to Davis a few days ago, I thought it was basically to show they made an attempt to re-sign him. If David wanted to re-sign for $150 million, great, but if not, they wanted to move on quickly and not let the Boras show take them into January without a resolution.

    That is why they are talking with Upton now. This was the perfect week to do this, because Fan Fest is this weekend and Duquette can tell fans he made the best effort, but Boras wants too much. At the very least, we will have Trumbo to show off, and Wieters and O'Day were re-signed as well. We are also looking into Carlos Gonzalez as well.

    Both Kazmir and Gallardo concern me- Kazmir from a durability stand point (he wears down late in the year) and Gallardo's WHIP was almost 1.50. That's not good coming to Camden Yards. I think we are looking at the trade market for pitchers though, that will be the best deal as far as money goes.

    I'm also concerned about out COF spots, and who is going to be getting on base at the top of the order.

    Thanks for making this thread by the way, I was just getting around to it tonight.

  3. #3
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    Given what I said above, not a surprise.

    10:07am: ESPN’s Buster Olney tweets that the Orioles didn’t raise their most recent offer to Davis — “not one nickel,” as his source put it. Not only that, but Baltimore’s offer to Davis is no longer on the table, according to Olney, though he adds that they’re willing to pick up the past thread of talks. MASNsports.com’s Roch Kubatko tweets that a club source denies their offer was increased as well.

    DEC. 10, 8:40am: Baltimore has reportedly increased its offer to Davis, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports, who hears they may be willing to go as high as $168MM over seven years — a $24MM average annual value. It’s uncertain whether or not the previously reported deferrals are still included in the revamped offer.

    -MLBTR

  4. #4
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    IDK if I believe Olney tbh, we'll see. Duquette was just interviewed by Ghrioli, Kubatko, and Encina and didn't sound like it was. On top of that, he preached patience.

    I'd be happy to move on from CD and grab J-Up and another piece or two as well. I love CD, but this is getting ridiciulous. Definitely feel as if we're bidding against ourself here. I haven't heard that much steam about Davis with anyone else besides us.

    Also, I know there were reports of talking with J-Up yesterday, but there hasn't been a ton of talk about us besides that. Not sure how likey we really are to win his services or not. I just don't want to move on from CD while also not gaining a nice mlb bat to replace him with. I full expect Trumbo to bring 30-35 hr's in Camden next year, but still. Can't lose Davis, Chen, Pearce, and Parra and not replace those guys and expect to compete or do anything. If we are so into keeping Britton like Buck and DD say, we need to pay for some pieces. Otherwise I'd rather move Britton for a similar haul to Giles.

  5. #5
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    Seems that we are reporting out of the Sun that we are standing by the original offer of seven years, $150 million. I agree with you on this getting ridiculous, and we need to not get caught in the waiting game and lose out not just on Davis, but everyone else on the market. If we get Upton, a decent starting pitcher and a leadoff hitter, I would be happy with letting Davis walk.

    Right now, I think we are trying to keep the strength in our bullpen, and try to get by with a league average rotation like the Royals did last year. If we keep Britton, him combined with O'Day, Brach, Matusz and Givens might make arguably the best bullpen for this coming year.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz View Post
    Seems that we are reporting out of the Sun that we are standing by the original offer of seven years, $150 million. I agree with you on this getting ridiculous, and we need to not get caught in the waiting game and lose out not just on Davis, but everyone else on the market. If we get Upton, a decent starting pitcher and a leadoff hitter, I would be happy with letting Davis walk.

    Right now, I think we are trying to keep the strength in our bullpen, and try to get by with a league average rotation like the Royals did last year. If we keep Britton, him combined with O'Day, Brach, Matusz and Givens might make arguably the best bullpen for this coming year.
    That's what i'm saying though, are we 100% certain Angelos who has a man crush on CD will fork over the same or more money to get those pieces added? If he does, awesome, but until he does, it's hard for me to be ok with letting CD go if we don't plan on adding a big bat replacement.

    As for the Royals, that's true, but our rotation at this point isn't even close to average. Tillman for the most part is a back end arm, his best FIP season is like 4. Gausman I like, but he has to take a nice step. Ubaldo is decent, than what? We lack any TOR arms, unless Gausman can get there, and we don't really even have a #2 or #3 in the classic sense. Our pitching just needs a lot of work. I'm glad our BP is set up nicely, but we need to add a solid arm for sure, we need to get help in the corner OF spots, and we could use another BP arm if possible, although not nearly as big of a deal.

  7. #7
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    No, we aren't, but if he wants to keep the money he's been making since 2012, he'd better spend the money on Davis or bringing in other players to replace him. Otherwise, fans are going to turn on him again. The ball is in Angelos' court if you will.

    I really think they are banking on Gausman taking the top and being a top of the rotation pitcher. Ubaldo is a #3 at best right now. But here's the thing, we are being linked to Gallardo and Kazmir, and I don't think either of them are #2/#3 starters either. I doubt we are going to get Chen back or sign Cueto, so if we make any sort of impact addition at starting pitcher, it's going to be through a trade.

  8. #8
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    What do you think of dropping Junior Lake and picking up Edgar Olmos today? I think it's too soon to give up on Lake's bat, and I am sure that someone, especially an AL team, will look to pick him up.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz View Post
    No, we aren't, but if he wants to keep the money he's been making since 2012, he'd better spend the money on Davis or bringing in other players to replace him. Otherwise, fans are going to turn on him again. The ball is in Angelos' court if you will.

    I really think they are banking on Gausman taking the top and being a top of the rotation pitcher. Ubaldo is a #3 at best right now. But here's the thing, we are being linked to Gallardo and Kazmir, and I don't think either of them are #2/#3 starters either. I doubt we are going to get Chen back or sign Cueto, so if we make any sort of impact addition at starting pitcher, it's going to be through a trade.
    I agree wholeheartedly regarding Angelos, but what happened with Cruz and Markakis? Markakis was on a bit of a downward spin compared to his early years in B'More, but Cruz was an absolute monster and we let him walk right out the door without replacing him really at all. Wouldn't surprise me if we did something stupid like that again. Until Angelos proves he will spend on this team it's hard to be optimistic. Lot of steam around J-Up with us, as Bowden just tweeted the Orioles, Angels, and Giants were all in the running...but we always seem to be rumored in with these guys and nothing comes to fruition, it's just tough. I hate to sound pessimistic, I love this team, but man oh man is it annoying when you have an owner who just has no seemed to be willing to open up the checkbook. Our farm is so weak on top of that, so it's not like we have some set of prospects we have to be looking forward too.

    It's fine to bank on Gausman to take that step, I just am not confident in our rotation at the moment. I don't see what assets we have to make a deal for a nice starter either unless we move Bundy to someone that's high on him.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz View Post
    What do you think of dropping Junior Lake and picking up Edgar Olmos today? I think it's too soon to give up on Lake's bat, and I am sure that someone, especially an AL team, will look to pick him up.
    Junior Lake seems to be on the Felix Pie track, so I'm not sure. I don't like that we gave up on him already, just saying I'm not really sure he amounts to anything. Given our lack of pieces in the corners in the OF though, I can't say I get this move. He's still young.

  10. #10
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    They made an effort for Markakis at least, but who knows if it was really the neck issue or not. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if we made a trade involving a low-end prospect to bring back Markakis, especially if the Braves chipped in some money. We really miss him at the top of the order. As far as Cruz goes, we may have to agree to disagree on that. We had plenty of power last year, and that's what Cruz brought. Spending that money on an aging slugger was not a wise decision, but we also didn't spend to replace him. What we really needed was someone to get on base, and that's what we missed with Markakis.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz View Post
    They made an effort for Markakis at least, but who knows if it was really the neck issue or not. Honestly, I wouldn't mind if we made a trade involving a low-end prospect to bring back Markakis, especially if the Braves chipped in some money. We really miss him at the top of the order. As far as Cruz goes, we may have to agree to disagree on that. We had plenty of power last year, and that's what Cruz brought. Spending that money on an aging slugger was not a wise decision, but we also didn't spend to replace him. What we really needed was someone to get on base, and that's what we missed with Markakis.
    I'm not saying we had to bring Cruz back, I'm saying we didn't bring in anyone else to replace him. We didn't do anything to improve our team and go worse obviously last offseason. Thus far, the same can be said this offseason, and until Angelos opens up the checkbook, I can't sit here and be confident that he'll replace Davis if we can't get him re-upped.

    We definitely need someone at the top of the order still, it's frustrating, because IDK who we get to be that guy either. Been some rumored interest in guys like Span and Kim, but not a ton to go on.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by WolvesJagsOs View Post
    I'm not saying we had to bring Cruz back, I'm saying we didn't bring in anyone else to replace him. We didn't do anything to improve our team and go worse obviously last offseason. Thus far, the same can be said this offseason, and until Angelos opens up the checkbook, I can't sit here and be confident that he'll replace Davis if we can't get him re-upped.

    We definitely need someone at the top of the order still, it's frustrating, because IDK who we get to be that guy either. Been some rumored interest in guys like Span and Kim, but not a ton to go on.
    Aoki would have been perfect for us, I don't understand why we didn't sign him last year, or this year for that matter. Span would be great, but I don't want us to give a four year deal to a 32 year old outfielder with hip problems.

    As for Cruz, yeah, we didn't replace him necessarily, but we lead the league in home runs. I'm not necessarily certain we needed to replace him. But, the players we added on a budget didn't pan out, and we were left without much help. We certainly needed to get someone in to replace Markakis, I guess that's what I am driving at.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasTomasz View Post
    Aoki would have been perfect for us, I don't understand why we didn't sign him last year, or this year for that matter. Span would be great, but I don't want us to give a four year deal to a 32 year old outfielder with hip problems.

    As for Cruz, yeah, we didn't replace him necessarily, but we lead the league in home runs. I'm not necessarily certain we needed to replace him. But, the players we added on a budget didn't pan out, and we were left without much help. We certainly needed to get someone in to replace Markakis, I guess that's what I am driving at.
    Highly doubt we would ever offer out a 4 year contract for Span anyway, so don't think we'll have to worry.

    As for us letting Cruz go without needing a replacement, just gotta say I definitely disagree there. Not saying we needed to add a 30-40 HR bat to justify letting him go, but signing a solid FA replacement? Definitely. Can't expect to let those types of impact bats go that legit carry your team at some points and expect to improve when you don't get even a half way decent replacement for a guy like that.

    Regardless, that's the past now, I'm saying we haven't shown that we will be big in FA before, so despite all the talk about us right now on Upton, Kazmir, and co., I definitely am not optimistic until we actually do it. I'll keep checking twitter and seeing what happens and being hopeful, but until Angelos proves he'll open up the wallet to improve this team for next year when we have some glaring holes and might lose our bigger hitter in the middle of our lineup, it's tough to see what the guy could possibly be thinking unless he really has zero interest on how we do from year to year.

  14. #14
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    Fair enough, I try to be a little more optimistic even though there have been very few off-seasons where we have truly been active (when we signed Tejada and when we brought in Cruz and Jimenez.) I can't really argue with you, because we could just as easily start going after the standard Duquette reclamation project/overseas player to fill out the rest of the roster.

    At least we brought back Wieters (even though I think they really didn't want to) and O'Day. That's a start in the right direction.

  15. #15
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    O'Day's contract details......not too bad, especially deferring that money. I'm sure that Toronto will be one of the teams on his NTC each year.

    DECEMBER 10, 10:37pm: Dan Connolly of the Baltimore Sun (Twitter links) has more details. O’Day will earn $5MM in 2016, $6MM in 2017, and $8MM apiece in 2018 and 2019. He’ll then take home $1MM annually for each of the next four years (though obviously won’t be obligated to play for the team in that stretch).

    The no-trade clause allows him to designate seven clubs per season, though Connolly notes that he stands to reach ten-and-five rights during 2018.

    -MLBTR

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