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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    I just see him as a 1-4 WAR guy and the Phillies already have a bunch of those. The power really isn't consistent, I think he'll have trouble getting past 15 HR most seasons. I know he has that one 23 HR season, but it was the only time he's shown any real power outside of the low minors. I guess he was solid in Triple-A last year too.

    He's a fine guy to throw into the mix, but he'd cost a LOT. You'd need to use a Nick Williams just to acquire him. And I don't really see the justification for spending major prospects for less service time.

    As for Williams, don't expect to see him this season. Nor Alfaro.
    I don't see how he will struggle when he's hit 20+ in 300+ PA in 2010, 23 in 550 PA in 2011, 24 in 540 PA in 2012, 8 in 350 PA in 2013 (291 PA in Majors), 23 in 612 PA in 2014 all in the majors, 15 in 550 PA in 2015 (132 in minors). Besides 2013, he's hit at least 15 homers across different levels in the majors and he'll be 25 for the 2016 season with what should be regular playing time.

    His problem is he doesn't hit many flyballs but if he upped that (I'm not too familiar on if that's something that can be taught/learned, i'm guessing yes) he should hit HRs in the 30s at a more consistent basis.

    I wouldn't give up Williams or any top prospect. Maybe Quinn/Tocci I might with a guy like Pinto but nothing really in the top 10.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  2. #32
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    I know he has hit some home runs, but nothing in his background says he can continue to hit home runs. And that's what matters. His swing is geared towards ground balls and he doesn't hit the ball with enough authority to make up for it. He'd have to change his mechanics to hit more fly balls, which is obviously a high risk/reward endeavor. Most players won't touch a swing that got them to the majors. And you may not want to give up a Williams quality prospect, but you aren't acquiring him without one.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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  3. #33
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    And to be clear, I'm not saying it's impossible that Ozuna could be a high quality OFer. Just that based on the likelihood of it happening and the associated cost of acquiring him, the Phillies internal options are superior.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    I know he has hit some home runs, but nothing in his background says he can continue to hit home runs. And that's what matters. His swing is geared towards ground balls and he doesn't hit the ball with enough authority to make up for it. He'd have to change his mechanics to hit more fly balls, which is obviously a high risk/reward endeavor. Most players won't touch a swing that got them to the majors. And you may not want to give up a Williams quality prospect, but you aren't acquiring him without one.
    Yeah, I wouldn't even think about trading Williams for Ozuna given our current situation. I was actually at the Reading/Trenton game where he bombed 2 homers to dead center field, kid is going to be nice.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    And to be clear, I'm not saying it's impossible that Ozuna could be a high quality OFer. Just that based on the likelihood of it happening and the associated cost of acquiring him, the Phillies internal options are superior.
    And I don't necessarily disagree with this. If the value is something like Giles + Pinto in a 3 team trade, I'd do it.

    Tigers gets Giles
    Phillies get Ozuna, Kubitza
    Marlins get Pinto/Eflin, Turnball/Cessa, Machado
    Last edited by koldjerky; 11-17-2015 at 09:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  6. #36
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    That's kind of a terrible return for Giles in light of the recent Kimbrel swap. But the general idea isn't terrible.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    That's kind of a terrible return for Giles in light of the recent Kimbrel swap. But the general idea isn't terrible.
    I'm terrible at judging ranks/talent with minor leaguers (which I'm sure most are outside of the top guys). I do know the Tigers farm is weak but they also want a reliever. Maybe the Marlins could throw in a prospect to the Phillies for a bigger return from the Tigers.

    Phillies get Ozuna, Burrows, Lilek
    Tigers get Giles, Biddle
    Marlins get Pinto, Machado, Fulmer
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  8. #38
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    You're forcing it
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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  9. #39
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    Well the Tigers are out anyway (probably) with the acquisition of K Rod.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  10. #40
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    I wish the Phillies had re-acquired Villar. The Brewers gave up even less than the Phillies did for Hellickson.
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  11. #41
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    I thought the same thing when I saw him get traded. There was basically no risk with him being so cheap and could turn into a decent player. At worst he can be a decent super UTIL player that can play multiple positions.

    They are also reporting the Astros and Marlins are two teams that could be in play for Giles......KJ might get his wish with some sort of Ozuna plus for Giles trade.

  12. #42
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    I don't see why the Marlins would even be involved. They already have Ramos and Capps for the late innings along with some other above average relievers.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burkey3472 View Post
    I thought the same thing when I saw him get traded. There was basically no risk with him being so cheap and could turn into a decent player. At worst he can be a decent super UTIL player that can play multiple positions.

    They are also reporting the Astros and Marlins are two teams that could be in play for Giles......KJ might get his wish with some sort of Ozuna plus for Giles trade.
    3 team trade with the Marlins and Astros!?

    Maybe AJ Reed comes over in the deal?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  14. #44
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    Now that would be an exciting addition. To play wet blanket, he doesn't strike me as the kind of prospect a team like the Astros would let go. They do have other 1B prospects like Singleton and Tyler White. And there's certainly other depth in the farm system to fit around those talents. Singelton may be a negative value asset, so he would account for a tiny portion of any Giles trade.
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  15. #45
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    The Phillies are seeking 2-3 highly regarded prospects in return for Giles. That matches what we've been discussing and may rule out MLB talents like Ozuna.
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