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  1. #16
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    What do you think it would take for us to trade Giles? Considering he's only 25 and not a free agent until 2021 I would hope A TON. At the same time I'm on board if it helps us improve the rebuild. It's kind of a luxury to have an elite closer when there won't be many games to close out for the next year or two.

  2. #17
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    Also, Phillies need to do whatever it takes to sign Kevin Maitan. Supposedly he's the next Miguel Cabrera and he's only 16. With the most international pool $ available this year we need to fully take advantage. Pair Maitan with an elite prospect at #1 in the draft and we potentially have 2 difference makers to help for the next 2 decades. Rumor has it Maitan has a "handshake deal" in place with the Braves but with the ability to offer him more money than the Braves we can and should do whatever it takes to get him.

    http://forums.rotoworld.com/index.php?showtopic=524438

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by godunkadunk8 View Post
    Also, Phillies need to do whatever it takes to sign Kevin Maitan. Supposedly he's the next Miguel Cabrera and he's only 16. With the most international pool $ available this year we need to fully take advantage. Pair Maitan with an elite prospect at #1 in the draft and we potentially have 2 difference makers to help for the next 2 decades. Rumor has it Maitan has a "handshake deal" in place with the Braves but with the ability to offer him more money than the Braves we can and should do whatever it takes to get him.

    http://forums.rotoworld.com/index.php?showtopic=524438
    That's not how the international market works. The buscones who set up the deal would have to be very confident that pulling back on the deal wouldn't hurt their reputation. It's very uncommon.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by godunkadunk8 View Post
    What do you think it would take for us to trade Giles? Considering he's only 25 and not a free agent until 2021 I would hope A TON. At the same time I'm on board if it helps us improve the rebuild. It's kind of a luxury to have an elite closer when there won't be many games to close out for the next year or two.
    Slightly more than what the Braves got for Kimbrel. His stuff is on par with Kimbrel, but he isn't nearly as established. Also, relievers are notoriously fickle assets (as are pitchers in general). On the other hand, he cost much less money at the moment.

    The Braves dumped Melvin Upton's contract in that deal, so the Phillies could definitely angle for an even better prospect than Wisler and/or a better throw-in than Paroubeck. If they wanted to use the same guidelines, they could include Ryan Howard for a cheaper bad contract.

    Unless they're entering a free agent year, an elite reliever is always going to be worth more at the trade deadline when a team has a painful need. Relievers are viewed as luxury items in the offseason because they're so unpredictable. Don't expect Giles to be traded this winter. Instead, we should see Klentak laying the groundwork for what it will cost once a team reaches the necessary level of desperation.
    Now writing for FanGraphs, RotoGraphs, The Hardball Times, and The Fake Baseball

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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    Slightly more than what the Braves got for Kimbrel. His stuff is on par with Kimbrel, but he isn't nearly as established. Also, relievers are notoriously fickle assets (as are pitchers in general). On the other hand, he cost much less money at the moment.

    The Braves dumped Melvin Upton's contract in that deal, so the Phillies could definitely angle for an even better prospect than Wisler and/or a better throw-in than Paroubeck. If they wanted to use the same guidelines, they could include Ryan Howard for a cheaper bad contract.

    Unless they're entering a free agent year, an elite reliever is always going to be worth more at the trade deadline when a team has a painful need. Relievers are viewed as luxury items in the offseason because they're so unpredictable. Don't expect Giles to be traded this winter. Instead, we should see Klentak laying the groundwork for what it will cost once a team reaches the necessary level of desperation.
    All very good info. but what stood out to me most is Is B.J. Upton really going by Melvin now!? I mean not that B.J. is a particularly good name for obvious reasons but Melvin might even be worse.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by The A Team View Post
    That's not how the international market works. The buscones who set up the deal would have to be very confident that pulling back on the deal wouldn't hurt their reputation. It's very uncommon.
    I am not disagreeing with you because I'm sure this will definitely be something they have to consider but the more I think about it, it only hurts their reputation with the Braves. No other team is going to care. PLUS it's ridiculous for them to have agreed to a "handshake deal" so early in the first place. If there is more money to be had they'd be silly not to accept it, and we'd be silly not to offer it if people think he's got Miguel Cabrera kind of potential. That's just my thinking though. Wishful thinking perhaps.

  7. #22
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    Phillies close to acquiring Jeremy Hellickson. Solid low risk, high reward type move.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/1...son-trade.html
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synyster89 View Post
    Phillies close to acquiring Jeremy Hellickson. Solid low risk, high reward type move.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/1...son-trade.html
    Yeah I like it. Gave up a low spec who doesn't look like much at all for a solid middle to back end starter for one year who could a) pitch well and be traded for something mid season, b) pitch well and get offered a QO which he'll probably declined, c) pitch well and possibly re-sign, d) not pitch well and be paid like he pitcher he is and was a stop gap.

    I was high on him in Tampa even though his peripherals weren't great.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  9. #24
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    Yup, this is a good trade and I hate Hellickson. How many times have we've seen an average to below average player exceed expectations and have a solid year in a contract year. If that happens it can land them a better prospect or they could resign him. Ultimately I am not expecting anything outside of his crappy pitching recently though but its still very little risk.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by godunkadunk8 View Post
    I am not disagreeing with you because I'm sure this will definitely be something they have to consider but the more I think about it, it only hurts their reputation with the Braves. No other team is going to care. PLUS it's ridiculous for them to have agreed to a "handshake deal" so early in the first place. If there is more money to be had they'd be silly not to accept it, and we'd be silly not to offer it if people think he's got Miguel Cabrera kind of potential. That's just my thinking though. Wishful thinking perhaps.
    That may make sense from your perspective, but you're obviously innocent of the conditions in the Dominican and Venuzuela. You say it only hurts their reputation with the Braves, but that's incorrect. Teams and players want buscones that are predictable and reliable. They agree to these handshake deals as a hedge against future risks. If the agreements are broken, then the buscones involved will quickly find themselves out of the racket.
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  11. #26
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    Hellickson was a smart addition for the Phillies given the almost non-existent cost. He made some mid-season adjustments and looked better than his overall numbers. He should be useful in an Aaron Harang sort of way. As we know, payroll is no longer an issue for the Phillies.

    This second Kimbrel trade also sets expectations for a Ken Giles trade. The Phillies can easily justify asking for a top 30 prospect, another top 100 guy, and 2 more decent, projectable guys.
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  12. #27
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    I like the Ozuna rumors that the Phillies are aggressive for him. Marlins want SP though. But I wonder if Giles could maybe be a piece to get him? Maybe a 3 team deal. Ozuna is good and under control for awhile. I'd want him to build around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  13. #28
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    It would have to be a 3 team swap if Giles were involved. And I don't see Ozuna as a building block. He's more of a fringe starter imo.
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  14. #29
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    I don't think fringe starter. Definitely someone I wouldn't break the bank for but he's a capable CFer with 20+ hr power (probably 30 in CBP) his K% and BB% are concerns but I think he's more than a fringe starter.

    Not saying the Phillies will, but say they get Heyward for RF. You then have an OF of:
    LF: Altherr/Ozuna
    CF: Ozuna/Altherr
    RF: Heyward

    With Herrera in there and Williams up sometime this season too. That'd be a strong young OF for years.

    And a good defensive one on top of that.

    Heyward is unlikely but still maybe an Ozuna, Herrera/Altherr, Williams OF in the future isn't bad either.
    Last edited by koldjerky; 11-16-2015 at 11:09 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack of Blades View Post
    I don't consider Brand New indie. I consider them ****ing awesome and don't belong to a genre.

  15. #30
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    I just see him as a 1-4 WAR guy and the Phillies already have a bunch of those. The power really isn't consistent, I think he'll have trouble getting past 15 HR most seasons. I know he has that one 23 HR season, but it was the only time he's shown any real power outside of the low minors. I guess he was solid in Triple-A last year too.

    He's a fine guy to throw into the mix, but he'd cost a LOT. You'd need to use a Nick Williams just to acquire him. And I don't really see the justification for spending major prospects for less service time.

    As for Williams, don't expect to see him this season. Nor Alfaro.
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