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View Poll Results: Who is the 9th best position player of all-time?

Voters
20. You may not vote on this poll
  • Alex Rodriguez

    0 0%
  • Mickey Mantle

    4 20.00%
  • Frank Robinson

    2 10.00%
  • Mike Schmidt

    1 5.00%
  • Eddie Collins

    0 0%
  • Albert Pujols

    0 0%
  • Tris Speaker

    1 5.00%
  • Honus Wagner

    6 30.00%
  • Rogers Hornsby

    5 25.00%
  • Rickey Henderson

    1 5.00%
  • Other - Please specify

    0 0%
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Results 1 to 15 of 32
  1. #1
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    9th Best Position Player of All-Time

    JordansBulls did this a few years ago in the NBA section, and I thought it would be fun to do here in the MLB section for MLB players.

    We have so many debates about the greatest of all time and how eras transcend etc. Why don't we make it official?

    I am going to do two separate lists, one for pitchers, and one for hitters. Hitters are up first, and we'll start by doing the top 10, and if the momentum remains, we'll extend beyond that.



    RULES:
    There will be a zero tolerance, one strike policy. If ANY poster is interrupting any of the threads in a negative way, OR causing any problems they're ability to vote will be taken away.
    NO POSTING in your FORUM, VOTE for this GUY. We had problems last time with it and NO POSTING in someone Else's Forum to VOTE for a certain player.


    Criteria: Take into account both peak and career play, era dominance, impact on the game of baseball, and how well their style of play and skills would transcend onto different eras. Statistical values, team values, etc all matter. To be more exact, how great they were at playing the game of baseball.

    So while this thread will be a poll, you vote for one player and then Nominate someone who is not on the list that way as the guys in the original list are selected we know who to add on the subsequent list.

    For example:

    If for #1 you vote Ruth, obviously we will see it in the poll, but don't just vote please, have discussion and include a nomination for who you think should be added to the next ranking on the poll.

    For me I might vote Ruth #1, and then say Nominate: Rogers Hornsby to be on the next poll for the #2 player.


    Current List:

    1. Babe Ruth
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...-all-time-list
    2. Barry Bonds
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...er-of-All-Time
    3. Willie Mays
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...0#post28747590
    4. Ted Williams
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...er-of-All-Time
    5. Ty Cobb
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...er-of-All-Time
    6. Hank Aaron
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...er-of-All-Time
    7. Lou Gehrig
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...er-of-All-Time
    8. Stan Musial
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...9#post28948469


    Every poll lasts 5 days.

    Nomination is Frank Robinson, barely edging out Jimmie Foxx

  2. #2
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    I voted for Speaker over Wagner, but it was a tough choice.

    Nominate Mel Ott

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I voted for Speaker over Wagner, but it was a tough choice.

    Nominate Mel Ott
    What is your reasoning for Speaker over Hornsby? His numbers certainly don't back them up.

    Vote: Rogers Hornsby
    Nominate: Jimmie Foxx
    Last edited by ClipperFan489; 08-20-2014 at 07:58 PM.

  4. #4
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    Wagner over Mantle

    add Dimaggio
    Last edited by amnesiac; 08-20-2014 at 08:56 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClipperFan489 View Post
    What is your reasoning for Speaker over Hornsby? His numbers certainly don't back them up.

    Vote: Roger Hornsby
    Nominate: Jimmie Foxx
    Speaker - 11992 PA - .345/.428/.500 - 157 OPS+ - 133.7 rWAR - 2.5 dWAR as a career Centerfielder
    Wagner - 11748 PA - .328/.391/.467 - 151 OPS+ - 131.0 rWAR - 21.3 dWAR as a career shortstop (played prior to 1901)

    More stats can be observed as well. But Speaker was clearly the better hitter, didn't start his career in the 19th century. And much of Wagner's value is being driven by being a supreme defensive shortstop (which he may have been). And I just can't give the credit to defensive metrics prior to 1950 very well. If two players are close, and one was the better hitter, then I'll take the better hitter from that era. I believe offensive numbers more than I do defensive numbers.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Speaker - 11992 PA - .345/.428/.500 - 157 OPS+ - 133.7 rWAR - 2.5 dWAR as a career Centerfielder
    Wagner - 11748 PA - .328/.391/.467 - 151 OPS+ - 131.0 rWAR - 21.3 dWAR as a career shortstop (played prior to 1901)

    More stats can be observed as well. But Speaker was clearly the better hitter, didn't start his career in the 19th century. And much of Wagner's value is being driven by being a supreme defensive shortstop (which he may have been). And I just can't give the credit to defensive metrics prior to 1950 very well. If two players are close, and one was the better hitter, then I'll take the better hitter from that era. I believe offensive numbers more than I do defensive numbers.
    Uh? I said Hornsby, not Wagner...

  7. #7
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    Hornsby - 9480 PA - .358/.434/.577 - 175 OPS+ - 127.0 rWAR (in 2000 less plate appearances, that shows a pretty massive advantage for Hornsby as a hitter).

    Aside from plate appearances, Hornsby is simply much better than Speaker and Wagner. He was also clearly the best player in baseball for the majority of his career, while it is hard to make that argument for Speaker.

    Hornsby had NINE 8+ rWAR seasons, SIX 10+ rWAR seasons including a 12+ rWAR season.
    Speaker had six 8+ rWAR seasons, one 10+ rWAR season
    Last edited by ClipperFan489; 08-20-2014 at 07:55 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClipperFan489 View Post
    Hornsby - 9480 PA - .358/.434/.577 - 175 OPS+ - 127.0 rWAR (in 2000 less plate appearances, that shows a pretty massive advantage for Hornsby as a hitter).

    Aside from plate appearances, Hornsby is simply much better than Speaker and Wagner. He was also clearly the best player in baseball for the majority of his career, while it is hard to make that argument for Speaker.

    Hornsby had NINE 8+ rWAR seasons, SIX 10+ rWAR seasons including a 12+ rWAR season.
    Speaker had six 8+ rWAR seasons, one 10+ rWAR season
    I didn't realize that Hornsby was still on this list!

    My bad, yes, I would have voted for Hornsby! I am officially changing my vote from Speaker to Hornsby

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I didn't realize that Hornsby was still on this list!

    My bad, yes, I would have voted for Hornsby! I am officially changing my vote from Speaker to Hornsby
    Yay! We agree

    I will likely be voting for Speaker next regardless.

  10. #10
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    Vote: "Honus Wagner sat there cryin'"--Dropkick Murphys

    Nominate: Jackie Robinson


    It's super tough between Hornsby, Speaker, and Wagner. It simply comes down to the fact I've read books (children's books in elementary school ) on Wagner and his position.

  11. #11
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    Vote: Hornsby

    Nominate: Clemente

  12. #12
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    I'm no baseball expert (and not voting), but shouldn't Junior be an option before Pujols and ARod? Premium position. One hell of an all around player.

    "King Felix has hurled more mega quality starts since 2010 than 14 entire MLB teams."
    http://dynamik-farr.deviantart.com/

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boozerguy47 View Post
    I'm no baseball expert (and not voting), but shouldn't Junior be an option before Pujols and ARod? Premium position. One hell of an all around player.
    Much much weaker bat, and was piss poor after 30.

    Pujols and ARod were also more valuable through the age of 30.

    Just the bat was significantly weaker for junior than ARod and Pujols.

  14. #14
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    Frank Robinson

    Nom: Clemente also.

  15. #15
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    Just so everyone knows, Wagner has my vote, not Speaker. Even though the poll says otherwise. Just in case it comes up later.

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