Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 11 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 156
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    6,103
    vCash
    1613

    All Time Point Guards - Where do you rank CP3?

    This is a two pronged question;

    1. Where do you rank CP3 right now in terms of all time at the point position?

    2. How would winning a title change that? Would he stay at the same position or be higher in your opinion? Are you swayed by that or do you not buy into the "rings" argument?


    IMO, CP3 is undoubtedly top 10 all time for his position. And when talking about "well rounded" he's probably close to top 5.

    Magic, Stockton, Big O, Isiah Thomas, Nash, Hardaway (homer vote?) and a prime Kidd would still be above him imo. (Cousy maybe? What about Frazier?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bird
    It doesn't matter who scores the points, it's who can get the ball to the scorer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jordan
    Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    In a crib
    Posts
    3,174
    vCash
    1500
    I always think the "where does this current player rank all time" is always premature.. The guys not done yet, he hasn't won a title, right now he can't stack up against the all time greats. If he retired today, yea he'd be top 10 at his position but on the back end.

    Your baby can't do this

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    31
    vCash
    500
    Around 10... Probably about even with Payton.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    31
    vCash
    500
    Quote Originally Posted by jaydubb View Post
    I always think the "where does this current player rank all time" is always premature.. The guys not done yet, he hasn't won a title, right now he can't stack up against the all time greats. If he retired today, yea he'd be top 10 at his position but on the back end.
    It's ok to rank how good player is when he's in his prime. You're thinking about career achievment too much. Anyone can rank a players prime vs another players prime if you saw plenty of them in thier primes and saw how they played.

    Paul is about as good as Gary Payton was. Not as good as KJ, or Stockton, or DJ and some others. Maybe not even as good as Prime Terry Porter. That dude would light it up in the Playoffs every season. He has I believe the highest offensive rating in the Playoffs.
    Mo Cheeks was pretty good, Tim Hardaway is about as good as Chris Paul aswell. Derek Harper was really good to and a PG that could guard big guards and he was a very physical player that played to do one thing... win and make his teammates look good.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Windsor, Earth's Rectum (as reported by Stephen Colbert).
    Posts
    8,167
    vCash
    1500
    Well... Stockton, Oscar Robertson and Magic are in my top three, and I won't argue with anybody who has them at the top, regardless of order.

    My honest opinion is that CP3 is right after them. I would rank Isiah Thomas above him for now, because Thomas won two rings and a finals MVP award, and while I try not to weigh team accomplishments in such matters, they do make a difference. CP3 has never been to the conference finals, let alone the finals. Though that said, I think the Detroit Pistons in 88/89/90/91 would have been a much better team with CP3 in place of Thomas, and I think they could have won all four years, or at the very least, beat LA twice instead of just once.

    My guy tells me, having watched both of them play, that CP3 is a better player than Thomas, a better teammate and a better leader, not to mention the statistical comparison and defense, which I would give to CP3 as well.



    So 4th or 5th.... I guess 5th for now, but I imagine he will be securely in the 4th spot when he retires.
    What the eye doesn't see and the mind doesn't know, doesn't exist.
    Follow me on Twitter and I'll follow back: @JasonJHorn

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    In a crib
    Posts
    3,174
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Kempisback View Post
    It's ok to rank how good player is when he's in his prime. You're thinking about career achievment too much. Anyone can rank a players prime vs another players prime if you saw plenty of them in thier primes and saw how they played.

    Paul is about as good as Gary Payton was. Not as good as KJ, or Stockton, or DJ and some others. Maybe not even as good as Prime Terry Porter. That dude would light it up in the Playoffs every season. He has I believe the highest offensive rating in the Playoffs.
    Mo Cheeks was pretty good, Tim Hardaway is about as good as Chris Paul aswell. Derek Harper was really good to and a PG that could guard big guards and he was a very physical player that played to do one thing... win and make his teammates look good.
    I didn't think the OP was talking about prime. He didn't really mention it.. Even if he was though, Chris Paul's prime isn't done yet.. The guy is only 29. If this is it for his prime then yea, I'd put him bottom half of top 10.

    Yes the fact that he hasn't won a championship in his prime weighs heavily on that as well IMO. Great player, there's just been other greats that's been better then what Chris Paul has given.

    Your baby can't do this

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    6,103
    vCash
    1613
    Quote Originally Posted by jaydubb View Post
    The guys not done yet, he hasn't won a title, right now he can't stack up against the all time greats.
    Did you read my initial post? This was part of what I was asking, are you the type of person that takes team accolades such as championships as merits for individuals. Would winning a title raise his ranking in your mind?

    You already answered that though lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bird
    It doesn't matter who scores the points, it's who can get the ball to the scorer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jordan
    Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    In a crib
    Posts
    3,174
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Goose17 View Post
    Did you read my initial post? This was part of what I was asking, are you the type of person that takes team accolades such as championships as merits for individuals. Would winning a title raise his ranking in your mind?

    You already answered that though lol.
    You ask if I read your post then you say I answered your question.. Well there ya go, I read your post and answered it..

    Your baby can't do this

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    In a crib
    Posts
    3,174
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Goose17 View Post
    Did you read my initial post? This was part of what I was asking, are you the type of person that takes team accolades such as championships as merits for individuals. Would winning a title raise his ranking in your mind?

    You already answered that though lol.
    You can also refer to the answer I gave right above this post when I answered your question a second time if ya want.

    Your baby can't do this

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    31
    vCash
    500
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJohnHorn View Post
    Well... Stockton, Oscar Robertson and Magic are in my top three, and I won't argue with anybody who has them at the top, regardless of order.

    My honest opinion is that CP3 is right after them. I would rank Isiah Thomas above him for now, because Thomas won two rings and a finals MVP award, and while I try not to weigh team accomplishments in such matters, they do make a difference. CP3 has never been to the conference finals, let alone the finals. Though that said, I think the Detroit Pistons in 88/89/90/91 would have been a much better team with CP3 in place of Thomas, and I think they could have won all four years, or at the very least, beat LA twice instead of just once.

    My guy tells me, having watched both of them play, that CP3 is a better player than Thomas, a better teammate and a better leader, not to mention the statistical comparison and defense, which I would give to CP3 as well.



    So 4th or 5th.... I guess 5th for now, but I imagine he will be securely in the 4th spot when he retires.
    Have you ever seen Isiah play? Cause it was more than the three straight Finals he led his team to and the Back to Back wins against great competition that made Isiah great. Isiah was a magician out there with or without the ball. He was very strong and athletic, a great leader and winner. He once averaged 21ppg and 14 dimes with 2 steals for a season. 21 and 14, I don't think CP3 has ever come close to that.
    Also Isiah would step up his game even more in the Playoffs and had the unique ability to "go off" at the drop of a hat. Chuck Daly talked about this many times. Almost will' his teams to wins., With the drop of a hat he could go off for 40 against anyone. Hubie Brown has also talked about this. "We felt we were going to win the game, and all of a sudden Isiah goes off, he scores 16 points in a minute and 22 seconds. " That was a playoff game vs the Knicks.

    Isiah also has one of the top 2-3 Finals games in NBA history if not the best. He scored 42 points on a broken ankle at the Great Western Forum.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    6,103
    vCash
    1613
    Quote Originally Posted by jaydubb View Post
    You ask if I read your post then you say I answered your question.. Well there ya go, I read your post and answered it..
    Yeah but you didn't appear to be deliberately answering it. You said we can't discuss where he ranks until he wins a championship (if he ever does) and until he's retired or whatever, but that IS the discussion, where does he rank right now in your opinion and would a title change that.

    You criticised the discussion without realising what the discussion was, and yet somehow managed to answer the question in the process... it was very strange.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bird
    It doesn't matter who scores the points, it's who can get the ball to the scorer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jordan
    Talent wins games, but teamwork and intelligence wins championships.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    \_(ツ)_/
    Posts
    64,457
    vCash
    500
    Quote Originally Posted by Kempisback View Post
    Have you ever seen Isiah play? Cause it was more than the three straight Finals he led his team to and the Back to Back wins against great competition that made Isiah great. Isiah was a magician out there with or without the ball. He was very strong and athletic, a great leader and winner. He once averaged 21ppg and 14 dimes with 2 steals for a season. 21 and 14, I don't think CP3 has ever come close to that.
    Also Isiah would step up his game even more in the Playoffs and had the unique ability to "go off" at the drop of a hat. Chuck Daly talked about this many times. Almost will' his teams to wins., With the drop of a hat he could go off for 40 against anyone. Hubie Brown has also talked about this. "We felt we were going to win the game, and all of a sudden Isiah goes off, he scores 16 points in a minute and 22 seconds. " That was a playoff game vs the Knicks.

    Isiah also has one of the top 2-3 Finals games in NBA history if not the best. He scored 42 points on a broken ankle at the Great Western Forum.
    I tend to view Zeke as one of the absolute most overrated players ever. I'm not gonna get into that (I have it ready for the Top-50 players threads). Sure, he went 21 and 14 for a whole season. Paul has gone 21-12. Huge difference! Oh, and CP3 waxes Isiah in terms of efficiency, three point shooting, turnovers, and so on. Literally every single advanced metric will favor Paul over Zeke. Now, it's a matter of preference as to how you value everything, but I don't think CP3 has ever been on a championship caliber team so I can't fault him for not winning one. His individual playoff play significantly trumps Isiah's as well.


    I have CP3 around 4 or 5, right around where I'd have Zeke. I don't expect everyone to agree, because again there are a lot of different things you can weigh in different ways. But when I'm comparing individuals I'm mostly concerned with how good they were as individuals, and if you don't fault him for the teams he's been on, he's been about as good as most any PG ever.

    I would like to see him get to a WCF. He was probably the best playoff performer in 2013 in that one series he played. Blaming him for not getting past round one is just absurdly silly. Is 2008 playoff run was also insanely good. But he has the best team he ever has. Ideally Blake continues to step it up and they can make a run. In many people's eyes he needs more playoff success. Mine included...I just fault him a tad less.
    I no longer care about anything here except for the Entertainment Forum, which sucks; the Music forum, which sucks; and the Magic forum, which does NOT suck.

    Love y'all!

    Except for all of y'all.

    #FreePablo
    #FreeManRam
    #FreePablo

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    24,301
    vCash
    2502
    1. Magic Johnson
    2. Oscar Robertson
    3. Walt Frazier
    4. John Stockton
    5. Isiah Thomas
    6. Chris Paul
    7. Steve Nash
    8. Jason Kidd
    9. Gary Payton
    10. Bob Cousy

    In terms of sheer peak numbers, You could make an argument for Paul as high as third, but he needs more longevity or more postseason success to pass Isiah, Stockton and Walt. If he could somehow continue his prime another 5-6 years and win a title or two, I think he could land in that No. 3 spot somewhere in the top 20 all-time.


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    31
    vCash
    500
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJohnHorn View Post
    Well... Stockton, Oscar Robertson and Magic are in my top three, and I won't argue with anybody who has them at the top, regardless of order.

    My honest opinion is that CP3 is right after them. I would rank Isiah Thomas above him for now, because Thomas won two rings and a finals MVP award, and while I try not to weigh team accomplishments in such matters, they do make a difference. CP3 has never been to the conference finals, let alone the finals. Though that said, I think the Detroit Pistons in 88/89/90/91 would have been a much better team with CP3 in place of Thomas, and I think they could have won all four years, or at the very least, beat LA twice instead of just once.

    My guy tells me, having watched both of them play, that CP3 is a better player than Thomas, a better teammate and a better leader, not to mention the statistical comparison and defense, which I would give to CP3 as well.



    So 4th or 5th.... I guess 5th for now, but I imagine he will be securely in the 4th spot when he retires.
    You're basing everything on PER. You do know that teams played a more "team oriented" type ball in the 80's and that affects PER of a player.

    Isiah understood the game at a higher level than Paul and was also a more athletic player. Plus had the ability to go off at the drop of a hat. A true magician with the ball. Averaged 21 and 14. Has Paul ever done that

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    31
    vCash
    500
    You're going to use advanced metrics over TITLES and TITLES IN THE GOLDEN AGE???????????????????????
    I've heard of people putting too much weight on advanced metrics, but you're taking it to a whole nother level.

Page 1 of 11 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •