PSD's Official #22 Player of All Time

[ManRam]

Voting for #21 has concluded and PSD's Official #21 NBA Player of all time is....

Bob Pettit

Voting

Bob Pettit 14
Dwyane Wade 10
Patrick Ewing 5
Scottie Pippen 3
John Stockton 3
Elgin Baylor 2
Isiah Thomas 2
John Havlicek 1
Clyde Drexler 1

Rick Barry 0
Clyde Frazier 0
George Gervin 0
Kevin McHale 0
George Mikan 0
Chris Paul 0


The List:

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...7#post28837457

Per the usual, vote, explain and nominate.

We have added Bill Walton, Kevin Durant and Bob Cousy to the poll.

[ATX]

Dirk was voted #20. Pettit was #21.

[WaDe03]

Wade again. Smh

[ManRam]

Dirk was voted #20. Pettit was #21.

Forgot to switch the name. Thanks.


I think it's a little unsettling seeing Wade fall further past Dirk, but the argument for Hondo is strong. The guy has played in over 500 more games than Wade. He's scored almost 1,000 more points. Wade has a slight advantage with per game stats, but the end of his career will even that out for sure.

However, I do think Wade had a much stronger peak. The PER game is huge. Wade's scoring efficiency destroys Hondo's. Thus far Wade has been a stronger playoff performer. He has one of the best Finals runs ever.

I think there's a fair argument for either. I guess it comes down to whether you prefer the longevity and team success Hondo saw or the peak play and dominance that Wade saw. I tend to lean with the latter, but the longevity gap is huge enough that you wont see me arguing too much about it.

[ShawnKemp]

I think it's hilarious that Lebron could only barely win 2 rings with D. Wade who PSD ranks near top 20. Yet Jordan won 6 Rings with Pippen who PSD barely ranks in the top 50.

[ShawnKemp]

How bout Robert Parish?

23334 points
14715 rebounds
2180 assists
1219 steals
2361 blocks
54% fgs

[ManRam]

I think it's hilarious that Lebron could only barely win 2 rings with D. Wade who PSD ranks near top 20. Yet Jordan won 6 Rings with Pippen who PSD barely ranks in the top 50.

Well, MJ is ranked #1 and LeBron is ranked #8, so I don't think people are overlooking these things. I will say, Wade's absolute prime, which is the foundation of what makes him a top-25 player for me, all took place before LeBron arrived. His 2006, 2007, 2009 and 2010 seasons were without a doubt his 4 best. He made zero 1st-Team All-NBA teams when LeBron was there, and just one 2nd-Team. That's pretty comparable to what Pippen was doing when those Bulls teams were winning rings.

Wade has that 2006 ring which is probably the trump card over Pippen. If Pippen won a ring without MJ I'm sure he'd go ahead of Wade.

[Raidaz4Life]

Ugh I hate Wade in an all time ranking argument. Its too tough for me to judge his position because he has only played over 70 games in 5 seasons. He has essentially no longevity argument whatsoever which I put a lot of weight on. Way more weight than titles anyway. His advanced stats are pretty incredible though... ugh. I think I like Ewing here.

[ShawnKemp]

Well, MJ is ranked #1 and LeBron is ranked #8, so I don't think people are overlooking these things. I will say, Wade's absolute prime, which is the foundation of what makes him a top-25 player for me, all took place before LeBron arrived. His 2006, 2007, 2009 and 2010 seasons were without a doubt his 4 best. He made zero 1st-Team All-NBA teams when LeBron was there, and just one 2nd-Team. That's pretty comparable to what Pippen was doing when those Bulls teams were winning rings.

Wade has that 2006 ring which is probably the trump card over Pippen. If Pippen won a ring without MJ I'm sure he'd go ahead of Wade.

Are you serious?
Dude, Wade was still in his prime for a few years while James was there. And plus injuries and stuff like that happens. You think Pippen was always 100% in the final seasons with the Bulls?

You're looking at PPG WAY TOO MUCH. It's not even funny. Of course Wade's PPG won't be what they were in 08. He wasn't the number one option because Lebron was there then and took the reigns, but make no mistake about it, Wade was in his prime and he's still putting up similar seasons to his prime ages. Remember he was always somewhat insconsistent. He's 32 now. Let's stop acting like he's 40 years old when Lebron had him. Let's stop making excuses for Lebron James and Dwyane Wade, ok, can we do that.


Pippen played in a better East, everyone says this and knows this, it's a fact. It was much better, it's not even close compared the the minor league teams the east throws out there now up and down the board.

Pippen is considered the best wing defender in NBA history. I happen to place him second to Jordan.
Pippen won 6 NBA titles as the second best player on the team.

I won't even get into the Wade gifted title that he didn't win by himself like some think. Shaq was a 20 and 10 player still a starting All Star and second in MVP votes. Let's not act like Shaq at 33 wasn't any good He was still the best Center in the NBA. Also even Phil Jackson was asked that summer if he thought the Finals was fixed or heavily favored against the Mavericks. He said "Isn't it obvious" "Cuban will find out soon enough who's league it is".

[ManRam]

Are you serious?
Dude, Wade was still in his prime for a few years while James was there. And plus injuries and stuff like that happens. You think Pippen was always 100% in the final seasons with the Bulls?

You're looking at PPG WAY TOO MUCH. It's not even funny. Of course Wade's PPG won't be what they were in 08. He wasn't the number one option because Lebron was there then and took the reigns, but make no mistake about it, Wade was in his prime and he's still putting up similar seasons to his prime ages. Remember he was always somewhat insconsistent. He's 32 now. Let's stop acting like he's 40 years old when Lebron had him. Let's stop making excuses for Lebron James and Dwyane Wade, ok, can we do that.


Pippen played in a better East, everyone says this and knows this, it's a fact. It was much better, it's not even close compared the the minor league teams the east throws out there now up and down the board.

Pippen is considered the best wing defender in NBA history. I happen to place him second to Jordan.
Pippen won 6 NBA titles as the second best player on the team.

I won't even get into the Wade gifted title that he didn't win by himself like some think. Shaq was a 20 and 10 player still a starting All Star and second in MVP votes. Let's not act like Shaq at 33 wasn't any good He was still the best Center in the NBA. Also even Phil Jackson was asked that summer if he thought the Finals was fixed or heavily favored against the Mavericks. He said "Isn't it obvious" "Cuban will find out soon enough who's league it is".

Trust me, I didn't look at PPG at all.


Wade was still VERY VERY good the first two years LeBron was in Miami, no doubt. But he wasn't like he was earlier in his career, that is all. And I stand by the rest of what I said. He was better than Pippen ever was at times before LeBron came. He was far more like Pippen always was (I mean, they're different players in general) when LeBron came. That's all.

Deep breaths!


But again, MJ is #1 and LeBron is #8. That huge gap certainly takes the stuff you're mentioning into account. It's not like we voted LeBron at #2 or anything. We know MJ did more than anyone else ever has and often with less, including when compared to LeBron. This isn't breaking news.

[WaDe03]

I think it's hilarious that Lebron could only barely win 2 rings with D. Wade who PSD ranks near top 20. Yet Jordan won 6 Rings with Pippen who PSD barely ranks in the top 50.

Watch your mouth.

[ShawnKemp]

22582 points
9077 rebounds
7183 assist
2702 steals
1132 blocks

while being the best defensive wing ever

All this for Scottie Pippen for everygame he played in the NBA including the NBA Postseason.

Does Wade's career add up to any of these metrics?

[DR_1]

Stockton for me.

[ShawnKemp]

Are you serious?
Dude, Wade was still in his prime for a few years while James was there. And plus injuries and stuff like that happens. You think Pippen was always 100% in the final seasons with the Bulls?

You're looking at PPG WAY TOO MUCH. It's not even funny. Of course Wade's PPG won't be what they were in 08. He wasn't the number one option because Lebron was there then and took the reigns, but make no mistake about it, Wade was in his prime and he's still putting up similar seasons to his prime ages. Remember he was always somewhat insconsistent. He's 32 now. Let's stop acting like he's 40 years old when Lebron had him. Let's stop making excuses for Lebron James and Dwyane Wade, ok, can we do that.


Pippen played in a better East, everyone says this and knows this, it's a fact. It was much better, it's not even close compared the the minor league teams the east throws out there now up and down the board.

Pippen is considered the best wing defender in NBA history. I happen to place him second to Jordan.
Pippen won 6 NBA titles as the second best player on the team.

I won't even get into the Wade gifted title that he didn't win by himself like some think. Shaq was a 20 and 10 player still a starting All Star and second in MVP votes. Let's not act like Shaq at 33 wasn't any good He was still the best Center in the NBA. Also even Phil Jackson was asked that summer if he thought the Finals was fixed or heavily favored against the Mavericks. He said "Isn't it obvious" "Cuban will find out soon enough who's league it is".

I see Jordan is 1 and Lebron is 8th. But are you failing to factor the the East was about 3 times as good back then? Cause this is a huge factor in grading players.

Also wasn't Pippen somewhat more durable in the 20's and even early 30's.

I realize Wade is a good player and usually All NBA first team. But what do you mean he "wasn't the same" when Lebron got there. Sounds like an excuse to me. You'll have to expound more if you could please. You are factoring in that Lebron was then taking a lot of the shots, so of course the ppg for Wade will drop some, but that doesn't mean the player is not good anymore or even still at an All NBA Level.

If you say you don't look at ppg, then don't.

Pippen
7-8 boards in his prime
6-7 assist in his prime
2-3 steals in his prime
1 block in his pime

and one of the top 2 defensive wings ever


Wade

5 boards in his prime
6-7.5 assist in his prime
2 steals in his prime
1 block in his prime

Tried sometimes on defense,
not as durable
and needed Shaq, Mourning, Payton and David Stern big time to get anywhere in the Playoffs.


The stats for Pippen are more solid and he didn't miss 20 games a season like Wade.

[WaDe03]

22582 points
9077 rebounds
7183 assist
2702 steals
1132 blocks

while being the best defensive wing ever

All this for Scottie Pippen for everygame he played in the NBA including the NBA Postseason.

Does Wade's career add up to any of these metrics?

Wades played 11 seasons to Scottie Pippens like 17. Wades career isn't even over yet and he's still considered better than Pippen. It probably won't be close by the time he retires.

Wades prime ***** on Pippen and that's not close. Pippen did nothing as a number 1 option in his career while Wade won a championship with the greatest performance in history.