Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 12 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 167
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    El Nath
    Posts
    4,637
    vCash
    1500

    Do the Raptors have less Depth than the Knicks?

    I saw this in the knicks forum and i was wondering if we were delusional or if they were just being biased like most of us would be about our teams

    Quote Originally Posted by trout1627 View Post
    There is no question that this team is better than last year's team. Just looking at the Atlantic Division, if we win, we are guaranteed a 4th seed regardless of the record. That being said, I think we will have a pretty decent, but not stellar record next season.

    IMO, this is how it plays out in the Atlantic Division:

    Knicks - Vastly improved. There is no reason this team cannot play close to as well as 2 years ago. 52 - 30

    Toronto - Toronto will continue to play well, but unlike the Knicks, they really did not improve much over the summer. I see their record improving marginally this year. 50 - 32

    Nets - Much worse. The loss of Pierce, Livingston, and Blatche has to be devastating. The return of the fragile Lopez will not offset this loss. Plus Williams has the nagging ankle issues and Johnson is another year closer to retirement. 37 - 45.

    Celtics - Nice draft picks for the future, but no real change from last season. 32 - 50.

    Philadelphia - This team is building a young and exciting core. But it is obvious that the team still wants one more high draft pick before it becomes relevant. 25 - 57

    To me, the nail-biter will be between NY and Toronto. I give NY the slight edge because

    1. I am a fan who is clearly prejudiced in favor of the Knicks and
    2. We have Melo.
    3. Overall:

    Valenciunas > Any of our Centers
    Johnson = Our Power Forwards
    Ross <<<<< Melo
    Lowry > Any of our Point Guards
    Derozen > Any of our Shooting Guards
    Toronto Depth < Knicks Depth
    Toronto has
    Lou Williams
    Vasquez
    Patterson

    NO SF or C that's good?
    I've watched Bebe play, he actually seemed like he would get better and play well, but at this point, I have hansbrough above him in our depth chart. As for James Johnson being our SF, I think his defense, rebounding, and playmaking will be helpful, dont expect him to score too much.

    Vasquez> Larkin/Pringles guy
    Williams >>Hardaway JR
    Johnson< Jr Smith
    Patterson < Amare
    Hansborough< Bargnani

    It seems like on paper, the knicks players have a better " name " to themselves, I just dont undersand why they performed so poorly, but their bench does look like it does have more depth than ours? THoughts? Thanks
    Last edited by FriedTofuz; 08-14-2014 at 03:53 PM.


    [/Center]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    7,832
    vCash
    1500
    Knick fans think they're going to get to the ECF.

    You do the math.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    Posts
    37,682
    vCash
    1255
    People take what knick fans say seriously? They're the biggest homer fan base in sports.


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    16,667
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by North Yorker View Post
    Knick fans think they're going to get to the ECF.

    You do the math.
    Literally haven't even seen 1 Knick fan that has said that...lol

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    16,667
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by FriedTofuz View Post
    I saw this in the knicks forum and i was wondering if we were delusional or if they were just being biased like most of us would be about our teams



    Toronto has
    Lou Williams
    Vasquez
    Patterson

    NO SF or C that's good?
    I've watched Bebe play, he actually seemed like he would get better and play well, but at this point, I have hansbrough above him in our depth chart. As for James Johnson being our SF, I think his defense, rebounding, and playmaking will be helpful, dont expect him to score too much.

    Vasquez> Larkin/Pringles guy
    Williams >>Hardaway JR
    Johnson< Jr Smith
    Patterson < Amare
    Hansborough< Bargnani

    It seems like on paper, the knicks players have a better " name " to themselves, I just dont undersand why they performed so poorly, but their bench does look like it does have more depth than ours? THoughts? Thanks
    Prior to last year they were 72-33 under Woodson, one of the top records in the NBA in that stretch... they were also 34 games over .500 with Melo, despite having Douglas, Fields and Jeffries as starters when Melo first came.

    Last year was just an awful year full of distractions and everyone outside of Melo having career worst years, and the team just quit on Woodson.

    People are putting too much stock into ONE bad year and acting like the Knicks are some awful team... literally no one has them even making the playoffs... but I like it like that.

    Both teams are deep though, I personally think the Atlantic will be between NY & TOR.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    7,832
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Literally haven't even seen 1 Knick fan that has said that...lol
    Oh really? This is just from one thread

    Exhibit A:
    Quote Originally Posted by jeter 2 View Post
    I think the Knicks have the potential to be a championship contender. Two years, the Knicks won 54 games and made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs. I can't see why they can't return there this season.

    For the Knicks to do better, we need Amare Stoudemire and Andrea Bargnini to be healthy and be a strong presences in the middle with Samuel Dalembart. Last year, the duo of Bargs and Stoudemire proved to be strong. If they can stay healthy, I can't see why the Knicks can't get the championship round or even the Finals if our big men play well. We all know those are 2 BIG IFs.

    Thoughts?
    Quote Originally Posted by D-Leethal View Post
    We don't have the D to be a contender but I think we will be closer to 2013 than 2014. In the East we can make a run to the ECF. I understand its summer league, but if our real squad can show half the togetherness and triangle-domination these guys are showing under the leadership of Phish, great things lie ahead.
    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksYanks View Post
    If everything goes right in terms of health which is a big if I would say that ECF berth is realistic
    Quote Originally Posted by Knicks Boogie View Post
    Ha Ha.... I love that "Phish" reference. I think bad coaching lost us at least 10 games last season which would have put us at 47 wins not including Tyson's broken leg, Felton's broken hand and heart, Jr-Shump-Amare's combined knee sugeries and Bargnani's failed tomahawk dunk which led to him out for the season. We didn't get any momentum until the end of the season and by then it was too late.

    With the Phish system in place, there will always be ball movement like there was in 2013 when Kidd was running point. Calderon is a ball mover and pusher like Kidd was and he is in his prime still. I can't remember the last time we had a good pg in his prime. Maybe Starbury but he had absolutely NO talent around him.

    The Phish system has resulted in 11 championships so it must be something special and if you watched how the SL guys cut and slashed and got open looks from that system, guys like Melo, Jr., Amare, Bargs, THJ, Larkin, Early, Shump and even Thanasis if he sticks will thrive.

    People keep talking about how bad our D is but we actually have better defenders on this young roster than we had last year and maybe even in the 54 win season.

    I say Knicks finish 3rd in the East, 1st in the Atlantic.

    1.Pacers
    2.Cavs
    3.Knicks
    4.Miami
    5.Bulls
    6.Wizards
    7.Raptors
    8.Brooklyn


    This is how I see the East this year barring no major injuries or big trades.......

    We have a shot at the Finals.
    Quote Originally Posted by QueensG_718 View Post
    50 wins if everyone buys into the triangle and an ECF birth
    Quote Originally Posted by dattdoode View Post
    I think winning the Atlantic Division and secruing a 3 seed is very realistic. Im not sold on TO or Brooklyn. Learning the triangle wont be easy, especially considering the way that these guys are used to playing, but if we improve thru the season and hit the playoff on the up tick, i could see us in the conference finals. I just hope they are willing and able to play some of the kids as im anticpating a decent amount of roster turnover next offseason..........
    And that was just the first 2 pgs of a 9 pg thread.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,696
    vCash
    1500
    I think the Knicks will surprise people but their defense will hold them back imo.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    El Nath
    Posts
    4,637
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by North Yorker View Post
    Oh really? This is just from one thread

    Exhibit A:













    And that was just the first 2 pgs of a 9 pg thread.
    Damn. I thought I was trying to be unbiased but I guess some knick fans unfortunately bring down the reputation of some of their fans who are realistic. But yeah, seeing this makes me understand that the knicks keep living in the past and forget about the present and how other teams have just gotten better.


    [/Center]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    4,166
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    Prior to last year they were 72-33 under Woodson, one of the top records in the NBA in that stretch... they were also 34 games over .500 with Melo, despite having Douglas, Fields and Jeffries as starters when Melo first came.

    Last year was just an awful year full of distractions and everyone outside of Melo having career worst years, and the team just quit on Woodson.

    People are putting too much stock into ONE bad year and acting like the Knicks are some awful team... literally no one has them even making the playoffs... but I like it like that.

    Both teams are deep though, I personally think the Atlantic will be between NY & TOR.
    Okay but it wasn't just a 'bad' year - it was an utter capitulation of such magnitude in comparison to previous seasons.

    The question is what caused it? Yes bad luck exists in sport but you have to make your own luck as an organization (Raptors fans know this all to well) and it starts at head office. You're not making your own luck when you agree to trade for Andrea Bargnani, or when your entire offense is built around one player (Melo), or more importantly when your team can't play defense.

    This Knicks franchise was set-up for failure and not just for one season - Knicks ownership has effectively shot both feet off by handing a 30 year old scoring champion an astronomical contract without any idea of how to surround that big contract player with the right team parts in order to win.

    I mean forget about the upcoming season - is there even a plan in place for the available cap-space when STAT becomes a free agent? Will the Knicks actually use it constructively to build an actual roster with a bench or are they going to go hunting for overrated free agents like they always do?

    My friend New York City is one of the greatest cities on earth with great people who love their Knicks but I'm telling you right now that the New York Knicks is the exact model of how not to run a franchise.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    16,667
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by North Yorker View Post
    Oh really? This is just from one thread

    Exhibit A:












    And that was just the first 2 pgs of a 9 pg thread.
    well i guess u kinda got me... but you said it as if KNick fans are thinking the knicks are a lock for the ECF.

    Under the right circumstances if all goes well I could see us reaching the ECF... but i don't think 99% of Knick fans EXPECT that...

    but show me a fan base that isn't optimistic before the season starts? if you're not going to be optimistic now then whats the point of being a fan? I don't think it's unreasonable to expect NY to bounce back, last year seems like an anomaly in the grand scheme of things...especially for Melo who had never missed the playoffs, had never had a losing record, and had his teams average close to 50 wins.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    tdot
    Posts
    18,425
    vCash
    1500
    Williams, GVZ, Patman, JJ, Jordan Hamilton, Hansborough and even the fresh body Fields.

    not even including the young Brazillians... our bench is gtg.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    16,667
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by canzano55 View Post
    Okay but it wasn't just a 'bad' year - it was an utter capitulation of such magnitude in comparison to previous seasons.

    The question is what caused it? Yes bad luck exists in sport but you have to make your own luck as an organization (Raptors fans know this all to well) and it starts at head office. You're not making your own luck when you agree to trade for Andrea Bargnani, or when your entire offense is built around one player (Melo), or more importantly when your team can't play defense.

    This Knicks franchise was set-up for failure and not just for one season - Knicks ownership has effectively shot both feet off by handing a 30 year old scoring champion an astronomical contract without any idea of how to surround that big contract player with the right team parts in order to win.

    I mean forget about the upcoming season - is there even a plan in place for the available cap-space when STAT becomes a free agent? Will the Knicks actually use it constructively to build an actual roster with a bench or are they going to go hunting for overrated free agents like they always do?

    My friend New York City is one of the greatest cities on earth with great people who love their Knicks but I'm telling you right now that the New York Knicks is the exact model of how not to run a franchise.
    Marc Gasol is the prime target... perfect triangle guy, and two way player.

    I would agree for the most part but things have changed since PJ took over

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    El Nath
    Posts
    4,637
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well i guess u kinda got me... but you said it as if KNick fans are thinking the knicks are a lock for the ECF.

    Under the right circumstances if all goes well I could see us reaching the ECF... but i don't think 99% of Knick fans EXPECT that...

    but show me a fan base that isn't optimistic before the season starts? if you're not going to be optimistic now then whats the point of being a fan? I don't think it's unreasonable to expect NY to bounce back, last year seems like an anomaly in the grand scheme of things...especially for Melo who had never missed the playoffs, had never had a losing record, and had his teams average close to 50 wins.
    I know there's good reason for optimism, but the knicks are really unrealistic. Do they think they can go from missing the playoffs, to being even worse defensively to just suddenly bouncing back and getting to the ECF when teams like Toronto, Washington, Charlette, Chicago, and cleveland and Atlanta, are all improved compared to the year in which the knicks won 54 games??

    I think a lot of knick fans dont consider this. they're unrealistic and that's why a lot of people stereotype knick fans as homers.


    [/Center]

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    16,667
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by FriedTofuz View Post
    I know there's good reason for optimism, but the knicks are really unrealistic. Do they think they can go from missing the playoffs, to being even worse defensively to just suddenly bouncing back and getting to the ECF when teams like Toronto, Washington, Charlette, Chicago, and cleveland and Atlanta, are all improved compared to the year in which the knicks won 54 games??

    I think a lot of knick fans dont consider this. they're unrealistic and that's why a lot of people stereotype knick fans as homers.
    If you look at the NY prediction thread, most fans have NY at 37-47 wins... I don't see all the unrealistic posters you speak of. Saying we COULD make the ECF if all goes right isn't unrealistic, the same can be said for 5-6 other teams in the east.

    Do TOR fans consider that the east was much weaker last year? and that they got career years from a few guys? Because most fans I see here have TOR winning MORE games this year even though the conf is tougher.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    El Nath
    Posts
    4,637
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    If you look at the NY prediction thread, most fans have NY at 37-47 wins... I don't see all the unrealistic posters you speak of. Saying we COULD make the ECF if all goes right isn't unrealistic, the same can be said for 5-6 other teams in the east.

    Do TOR fans consider that the east was much weaker last year? and that they got career years from a few guys? Because most fans I see here have TOR winning MORE games this year even though the conf is tougher.
    I've looked at the prediction thread and most knick fans have said 45+
    If I saw 37 wins as a prediction, I'd agree with those knick fans because those are realistic expectations.
    Making the ECF is unrealistic, Even if rose was out for the rest of the season, the bobcats and heat are still better than the knicks to make the ECFs.

    I understand the EC got stronger this year. And yeah I have noticed toronto fans thinking we'll win 50 games, it not tht much of an overestimate considering the team is top 10 offensively and defensively, and their record post rudy gay is 42-18. But I do know that the east has gotten a lot better, so I would say that some toronto fans are overrating them. I personally think the bobcats will be beter than the raptors, maybe even Miami is Wade and bosh can play better than most people remember.

    But you just brought up a point that makes the knicks look worse. the east was soooooo weak, and yet the knicks could only win like 37 games and miss the playoffs. do knick fans think they can win even more than that after how much worse they got defensively and after how much better the rest of the east has gotten?

    THJR/Calderon/JR smith/ Bargnani/ AMare are horrible defenders.
    Even with shump on that team, tht team will suck defensively.


    [/Center]

Page 1 of 12 12311 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •