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  1. #1
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    Why don't more teams build their offense around their QB's skill set ?

    Alex Smith was left for dead until Jim Harbaugh came riding in on his white horse and saved his career. He was never asked to do too much under Harbaugh, and instead was asked to limit turnovers, complete the high percentage passes, and keep plays alive with his mobility. Yes the 49ers had the luxury of having a top ranked defense and a tremendous rushing game, but it wasn't until late in his career that the coaches and staff realized what needed to be done with him.

    So, why don't more teams follow suit ? If a guy like Mark Sanchez was asked to throw 18-22 times a game, your telling me he wouldn't still be a starting QB ? For example, the Jets bolster their o-line and find a capable running back to shoulder the load. Wouldn't this be a better/easier solution than shuffling QB's around every single year ?

    The point I'm trying to make is teams quickly give up on their young QB's because of their lack of success when in reality, could it be the other circumstances surrounding the player that need to be tweaked ?

    Do you truly need an "Elite" QB to win a Super Bowl ? I don't think so ...

    Your thoughts ?

  2. #2
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    It's a lot easier said than done to find an elite/great defense and an elite/great running game like Alex Smith had with the 9ers. If anyone could find that there would be a heck of a lot more QBs throwing 18-22 times a game.
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  3. #3
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    Like Tebow? Exactly

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Like Tebow? Exactly
    You caught me

  5. #5
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    I think it has to do with the lifespan of coaches. It takes time to accumulate the neccessary talent to put around less than elite Qbs and win. SF and Sea couldn't find viable QB's for years and decided to build without them, and now they are what they are.
    Not to pick on Wilson, because I actually think he is very good, but Seattle proved this years that you don't need an "elite" Qb to win the superbowl. Again not that he not good, but Wilson could literally have taken a knee every single play and Seattle would have won by 20.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortDetroit View Post
    It's a lot easier said than done to find an elite/great defense and an elite/great running game like Alex Smith had with the 9ers. If anyone could find that there would be a heck of a lot more QBs throwing 18-22 times a game.
    But is it really ? I mean how many truly elite QB's are out there ?

    Manning
    Rodgers
    Brees
    Brady

    Would it really be as difficult building a power house D through draft and F/A and then getting an average QB to manage games ? I'm not so sure.

    Actually, your Lions are a good example. Would you trade in Stafford and his massive contract for an elite secondary and line backing core ?

  7. #7
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    I would't trade Stafford, that team was absolutely dysfuntional cause they had the worst coaching in the NFL.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny01 View Post
    I would't trade Stafford, that team was absolutely dysfuntional cause they had the worst coaching in the NFL.
    You wouldn't trade Stafford for a combo of Bowman and Peterson with someone like Carson Palmer at QB ? I might think long and hard about that one especially with that WR core.
    Last edited by mudvayne387; 08-12-2014 at 02:18 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudvayne387 View Post
    But is it really ? I mean how many truly elite QB's are out there ?

    Manning
    Rodgers
    Brees
    Brady

    Would it really be as difficult building a power house D through draft and F/A and then getting an average QB to manage games ? I'm not so sure.

    Actually, your Lions are a good example. Would you trade in Stafford and his massive contract for an elite secondary and line backing core ?
    Absolutely I would. But if we are talking about BUILDING a team's defense/running game through the draft/FA the odds of the Lions (or any team) hitting on a bunch of elite defensive players, o-line, and running backs and becoming the Niners or Seahawks is pretty slim. I'd take my chances on finding a Matt Ryan, Eli Manning, Roethlisberger, etc type QB and building a good enough overall team around him.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudvayne387 View Post
    Alex Smith was left for dead until Jim Harbaugh came riding in on his white horse and saved his career. He was never asked to do too much under Harbaugh, and instead was asked to limit turnovers, complete the high percentage passes, and keep plays alive with his mobility. Yes the 49ers had the luxury of having a top ranked defense and a tremendous rushing game, but it wasn't until late in his career that the coaches and staff realized what needed to be done with him.

    So, why don't more teams follow suit ? If a guy like Mark Sanchez was asked to throw 18-22 times a game, your telling me he wouldn't still be a starting QB ? For example, the Jets bolster their o-line and find a capable running back to shoulder the load. Wouldn't this be a better/easier solution than shuffling QB's around every single year ?

    The point I'm trying to make is teams quickly give up on their young QB's because of their lack of success when in reality, could it be the other circumstances surrounding the player that need to be tweaked ?

    Do you truly need an "Elite" QB to win a Super Bowl ? I don't think so ...

    Your thoughts ?
    Well the reason Sanchez ain't a starter anymore is because the Jets DID try this and Sanchez still sucked. When they arguably had the #1 O-Line and #1 running attack in '09 and '10, Sanchez just had to protect the ball, which unfortunately he failed miserably at doing.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jets012 View Post
    Well the reason Sanchez ain't a starter anymore is because the Jets DID try this and Sanchez still sucked. When they arguably had the #1 O-Line and #1 running attack in '09 and '10, Sanchez just had to protect the ball, which unfortunately he failed miserably at doing.
    Woah, did they not make it to the AFC Championship game two straight seasons ?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudvayne387 View Post
    Woah, did they not make it to the AFC Championship game two straight seasons ?
    And imagine how far they could have gone if their QB wasn't turning the ball over at a league high rate. If they had Alex Smith, they might just have a SB win (I know Sanchez played well in the playoffs but we might get home field advantage if he doesn't play so poorly at times)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jets012 View Post
    And imagine how far they could have gone if their QB wasn't turning the ball over at a league high rate. If they had Alex Smith, they might just have a SB win (I know Sanchez played well in the playoffs but we might get home field advantage if he doesn't play so poorly at times)
    Yes but if you replace Sanchez with a QB making 15-20 million per year, you wouldn't of had the #1 D in the league. Not to mention, the Jets went down 24-0 in the AFC championship game and rallied back to make it 24-19.

    My point in this debate is that look at where the Jets are now. They draft a guy in Smith or was ranked the worst QB in the NFL by the writers last year. Are they better off now ?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudvayne387 View Post
    You wouldn't trade Stafford for a combo of Bowman and Peterson with someone like Carson Palmer at QB ? I might think long and hard about that one especially with that WR core.
    I'm a Bears fan and see him play a lot. I am scared as hell of him if he can ever get his head right. I suppose if I knew I was getting a killer linebacking core and secondary if imagination land I might, but as a Bears fan the idea of having to find a QB that is even worthwhile is horrifying.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mudvayne387 View Post
    Yes but if you replace Sanchez with a QB making 15-20 million per year, you wouldn't of had the #1 D in the league. Not to mention, the Jets went down 24-0 in the AFC championship game and rallied back to make it 24-19.

    My point in this debate is that look at where the Jets are now. They draft a guy in Smith or was ranked the worst QB in the NFL by the writers last year. Are they better off now ?
    Not really. But they are trying. Sure they could have gone for Bostic or Short, or Carradine instead. You can draft Watt, or Mario Williams, or Jared Allen, or Revis, or Joe Haden, or maybe even put together one of the best D lines in recent memory like the Rams have. How many of them were in the playoffs last year. Guess what though. None of the top 10 QB's in QB rating had losing seasons. Of the 18 QB's with a rating over 87, just 3 had losing seasons (Cutler, Bradford, and Ryan). And that's going to be consistent. Champ Bailey might be the best corner of our generation, but his record is meh. Tony Gonzalez might be the best TE ever and he has one career playoff win. Joe Thomas is the best left tackle in the league for 6 years now... and can't win 6 games in a season.

    But where's the equivalent of that at QB? The guy with Mannings skillset and a 50-100 record? The guy with Marino's arm who never won a playoff game. The guy that can air it out like Drew Brees, but hasn't gotten to the playoffs? They just don't exist. One position, even QB isn't going to win you a SB, but it will make you a lot better than improving at any other position or two... or three...

    Look at the Pats.. D is up and down, weapons around the offense are in and out, but they consistently win. The effect of a great QB is so much bigger than any individual player. The ball is in his hands 40% of the game. He's responsible for 75% of your teams turnovers. You just don't have that kind of impact player anywhere else in football. Sure, with an elite D you can win a SB. But how many have repeated? Pitt did, but Ben was great in those post-seasons to get them there.

    Sanchez is a goofy one, they got to the playoffs because of their Defense, but they went further in the playoffs because of his play there. He had some great post-season games, but his inconsistency is why Ryan is on the hot seat.

    As for teams playing to their strengths... they do. Ben early on. Manage the game, but make big throws when needed, but situations determine what you do. I think it was Ben's 3rd season where the D regressed and the run game was a little less effective and he had to throw a lot more. They didn't do well (my opinion because they hadn't built the offense to do that), but later in his career as they added more to that offense they threw more well.

    And it's hard to retool your offense unless you are sold on your QB. Overhauling your game plan for a guy like Tebow or Pryor means changing your free agent targets, how you draft, who you hire... That's a lot of change and if he goes down or doesn't play well, you've thrown it all away.

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