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  1. #3061
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    So what does that mean? So cause AA signed some int. Specs that Shapiro and Atkins don't get credit for what they do?
    I don't think I said anything of that nature. I would like to see some of their signings pan out the way osuna, baretto and vlad seem to be... but they get credit for their signings.

    However, I don't think they would have the same leverage in negotiations without AA investing internationally and even how he rushed osuna to the show.

  2. #3062
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    Mini 4 game win streak is a big blow in the draft pick race, remains at 10th pick instead of jumping up to 6th pick.

    Top 5 pick is huge consolation for a lost season, but these guys starts winning when it doesn't matter anymore

  3. #3063
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfio View Post
    Mini 4 game win streak is a big blow in the draft pick race, remains at 10th pick instead of jumping up to 6th pick.

    Top 5 pick is huge consolation for a lost season, but these guys starts winning when it doesn't matter anymore
    Agreed. It's Urena doing the damage so it's a little fun lol... but we know we got Tulo for 3 more years so man oh man it's gonna be interesting what they do next year between Tulo, Travis and Urena... Urena can easily go back to Triple A but if he has a strong Sept you feel for him.

  4. #3064
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    Jun 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I don't think I said anything of that nature. I would like to see some of their signings pan out the way osuna, baretto and vlad seem to be... but they get credit for their signings.

    However, I don't think they would have the same leverage in negotiations without AA investing internationally and even how he rushed osuna to the show.
    I could be wrong on this, but weren't the Indians involved in the International signing period for some time. I'm pretty sure that just off their current roster Ramirez and Salazar were signed by them. Either way I think it's great that we have two successive management groups that believe in signing international specs

  5. #3065
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    I'm not that worried about draft placement. If we can stay in the top ten I will be happy. There are gems to be found through out the draft and I have the confidence in this FO to be able to find that talent.

  6. #3066
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    So what does that mean? So cause AA signed some int. Specs that Shapiro and Atkins don't get credit for what they do?
    I don't think I said anything of that nature. I would like to see some of their signings pan out the way osuna, baretto and vlad seem to be... but they get credit for their signings.

    However, I don't think they would have the same leverage in negotiations without AA investing internationally and even how he rushed osuna to the show.
    ? You even said "I don't want to that guy" but anyway yes hopefully there int. Guys pan out but we won't know that for a while considering how young these guys are.

    Vancouver is northwest champions and really there bats were pretty horrible all series but the arms were great. Dillion and Logic have been very good all year. Two kind of under the radar specs this year. Dillion had 7K's in 3 innings

  7. #3067
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    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    ? You even said "I don't want to that guy" but anyway yes hopefully there int. Guys pan out but we won't know that for a while considering how young these guys are.

    Vancouver is northwest champions and really there bats were pretty horrible all series but the arms were great. Dillion and Logic have been very good all year. Two kind of under the radar specs this year. Dillion had 7K's in 3 innings
    Yeah i dont want to be the guy that brings up AA again. Signing international players is a longterm process that involves investing in development programs and handing cash to the right people. No doubt AA's residue is still all over the international scene including the guys he hired. Regardless, international signings are huge and i am also happy to see the new regime pull in some big international fish.

  8. #3068
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    Jan 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfio View Post
    Mini 4 game win streak is a big blow in the draft pick race, remains at 10th pick instead of jumping up to 6th pick.

    Top 5 pick is huge consolation for a lost season, but these guys starts winning when it doesn't matter anymore
    There is solace in the fact that important young assets in the organization are partly responsible. It is good to see the contributions of Urena, Hernandez, Ramirez and Biagini at the big league level.

  9. #3069
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    Urena and Hernandez are decent looking young players, but we need some elite players to really put this team back in contention the way the Yankees, Sox, Indians and Astros are looking to be for the foreseeable future.

    The prospects that look to have that kind of potential are Bo and Vladdy. Guys like Alford, Urena and Hernandez will be everyday players in the big leagues, but I doubt either of them are ever an all-star. Say what you will about AA, but I think how he used his farm system was brilliant. He kept only the cream of the crop every 2 years and then traded the rest for proven big league players. The goal if you want to compete should be getting an elite player everywhere. Your never going to promote 10 players in the next 2 years and be any good. I think it makes much more sense to promote the best 2 to 4 and trade the other 6 to 8 for a couple other solid players to compliment those guys.


    The formula was pretty simple that got the Jays back into the playoffs after such a long hiatus. Stock pile minor league assets, then every 2 years use that minor league system to get top level major league talent while keeping the cream of the crop of those assets. Then compliment those guys with free agents.

    You can focus on development while still implementing that type of strategy with your minor league assets. You still want the ones that eventually get promoted to be as good as possible when they get here, but there is no need to have an entire team in AAA ready for the big leagues. Eventually you are just going to lose some of those assets to the rule 5 draft for essentially nothing.

  10. #3070
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    Urena and Hernandez are decent looking young players, but we need some elite players to really put this team back in contention the way the Yankees, Sox, Indians and Astros are looking to be for the foreseeable future.

    The prospects that look to have that kind of potential are Bo and Vladdy. Guys like Alford, Urena and Hernandez will be everyday players in the big leagues, but I doubt either of them are ever an all-star. Say what you will about AA, but I think how he used his farm system was brilliant. He kept only the cream of the crop every 2 years and then traded the rest for proven big league players. The goal if you want to compete should be getting an elite player everywhere. Your never going to promote 10 players in the next 2 years and be any good. I think it makes much more sense to promote the best 2 to 4 and trade the other 6 to 8 for a couple other solid players to compliment those guys.


    The formula was pretty simple that got the Jays back into the playoffs after such a long hiatus. Stock pile minor league assets, then every 2 years use that minor league system to get top level major league talent while keeping the cream of the crop of those assets. Then compliment those guys with free agents.

    You can focus on development while still implementing that type of strategy with your minor league assets. You still want the ones that eventually get promoted to be as good as possible when they get here, but there is no need to have an entire team in AAA ready for the big leagues. Eventually you are just going to lose some of those assets to the rule 5 draft for essentially nothing.
    Ya but the downside to that is the team doesn't have any depth and that was the achilles for AA's teams. Sure we paid high prices for Tulo and Price, but we also dumped a ton of mid-level specs on depth players we didn't have like Pennington, Revere (even though he started), Lowe etc.


    The Lost Boys of PSD

  11. #3071
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    I dont think lack of depth hurt us in the playoffs.. It was the inability to manufacture runs against great pitching they couldn't take deep. They had enough depth to get there after 162 games, and that is what counts in my book. Sure they snuck in the second time around, but in is in.

    This year depth hurt us for sure, but no one has the depth to deal with the injuries to pretty much all of their "stars" as well as most of their highly paid players forgetting how to hit. It would have been tough to keep up with the seasons the other teams in the AL are having this year even if we were healthy the way guys like Martin, Tulo and Bautista have performed while they have been on the field. We got lucky that Smoak had a great year, or we could be 20+ games back. Our "leaders" just haven't led..other than Donaldson in August.

  12. #3072
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    Issue isn't really depth, as complimentary players are much easier to acquire than franchise stars on open market. Like Pearce/Morales, who are serviceable role players but not really game-changing.

    The tax rate is really limiting Toronto from signing key players in free agency. Either overpay free agents, or trade them in during their primes. Essentially, Toronto sink or swim dependent on youth development, when its handicapped to in regards to free agency.

    Key is every 2.5 years.

    Systematically, AA stacked enough high-upside kids within a 2.5 year window to use as ammo to go for it again.

    Winter 2012 was AA's first franchise-changing deals. By July 2015, he had a second attempt which was our last splash. By winter 2017, we now got another pool of specs to work with in trade talks.

    If Shapiro wants to grow team "organically" from farm system, it probably takes another additional 3 years minimum before Vladdy, Bo, Alford solidify their talents with experience. Thats so time-consuming. Its so boring this season, I hadn't even watched 10 games all year long.

    I wish AA is back to restore the excitement with his signature trading/gambling this off-season.

  13. #3073
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    May 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfio View Post
    Difference between #4 - #10 pick is another 4 dismal losses. 4W won't cure this season woes but definitely help boost farm stock considerably.
    I'd rather have the top pick next June than 4 wins this September.

  14. #3074
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    Consolidating talent is one of the key factors of turning a good farm into a good team.

  15. #3075
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    Aug 2017
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    31
    Question for everybody to answer.
    If the blue jays are so high on Anthony Alford why have they not
    called him up? This question has nothing to do with what I think of him.
    And have the blue jays new management rank him as high as everyone else.

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