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  1. #1
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    Christian Vazquez is Partially Elite

    Here's a very nice article on fangraphs about him. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/so-ch...rtially-elite/

    This picture is ridiculous. He is going to have a very long career.


  2. #2
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    i like him a lot. i like swihart even more though
    Perfect combos, Ghost bang out condos
    Jeff from Hamo, ex three bangos
    Bancos, stank hoes in plain clothes
    Change those, bang those, same old, same old

  3. #3
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    I read that article this morning, like the article said it amazing how many pitches he receives on the corners of the strike zone and his glove movement keeps it in the zone/improves it some with his framing skills. Plus he has a cannon. Only his month(s) in the bigs and he is already in the conversation with the top guys in the league. You have to keep this keep behind the plate IMO even if he doesn't improve at the plate (which I think he will) he could still be valuable out of the bottom third of the order. He's shown a lot more in his little time at the plate then JBJ has in his whole Red Sox career.
    Swihart is athletic and I think we can find a spot for him, could he possible replace Napoli at first base after '15? I've given that some thought or a corner outfield spot, maybe?

  4. #4
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    Loved that chart to, notice he's pulled some pitches over 1.5 ft off the plate into the zone for a K. I mean I'm sure some of that is crappy umpiring but it's fun to think about how good he could get behind the plate.

  5. #5
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    Makes the front office look smart for not signing a catcher longterm.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaginRondo17 View Post
    Swihart is athletic and I think we can find a spot for him, could he possible replace Napoli at first base after '15? I've given that some thought or a corner outfield spot, maybe?
    I was going to touch on this as well. Ever since Vazquez came up I've been thinking that he might need to play full-time even when Swihart is here just because he is the next Yadier Molina defensively. IMO he'll hit enough to bat 8-9 in the order.

    Swihart will probably just get a call-up next season and split duties with Vazquez, but IMO Swihart should be moved to 1B/LF/DH in 2016. He can replace Ortiz/Napoli and still provide a 3rd catching option on the roster (assuming we have a veteran backup catcher). Or Craig can play 1B full-time (where he should be) and Swihart can play LF. Either way he's got to be in the lineup everyday when he comes up, and so does Vazquez.

  7. #7
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    Swihart projects as plus defensive catcher who has thrown out would be base stealers at a higher right than Vasquez did at the same level. To get value one of them will have to be moved.

  8. #8
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    Swihart has a great arm, but I'm pretty sure Vazquez smokes him on pop times. Percent of runners thrown out can be a little deceiving in the minors, especially when you catch someone like Workman who pays little attention to baserunners.

    People are mentioning 1b/LF...this is not the prototypical C. Hes been viewed as a guy who could transition to 3b or 2b in the past. He is not a bulky guy. As for trading one of them, Swihart probably can be a key piece in a trade for a star player. I don't think I would ever be satisfied with the return for Vazquez, I think his overall package is very undervalued.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Lavigne43- View Post
    Swihart has a great arm, but I'm pretty sure Vazquez smokes him on pop times. Percent of runners thrown out can be a little deceiving in the minors, especially when you catch someone like Workman who pays little attention to baserunners.

    People are mentioning 1b/LF...this is not the prototypical C. Hes been viewed as a guy who could transition to 3b or 2b in the past. He is not a bulky guy. As for trading one of them, Swihart probably can be a key piece in a trade for a star player. I don't think I would ever be satisfied with the return for Vazquez, I think his overall package is very undervalued.
    You can say that Vasquez in partially elite, but Swihart has the potential to be elite behind the plate as well(he already blocks balls significantly better than Vasquez), plus he could above average at the plate too. This is one of the worst offenses in the league and the sox cannot afford to have 2-3 defensive only players in the lineup(JBJ,Vasquez and potentially Marerrro). I personally consider XB,Betts, and Swihart the foundation of the future and I will sacrifice a little defense for significant offensive upgrades.

  10. #10
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    If Vazquez can stay here OPS wise I think it makes more sense to build a package for trade around Swihart than any other prospect IMO. You can make the case for Mookie too but I think Pedroia is a ticking time bomb between injury and offensive decline, and I think Mookie is a safer bet to be an all star caliber player. If Swihart dips in power which is a significant possibility, he's not that far above average offensively. Plus catchers like Squez are more valuable than their trade value indicates. You'd essentially be selling high on Swihart after this season.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by win red sox View Post
    Swihart projects as plus defensive catcher who has thrown out would be base stealers at a higher right than Vasquez did at the same level. To get value one of them will have to be moved.
    Disagree:

    #1. The ranks of kids in the Minors or having just debuted that look great in the moment, but fail later is legion.

    #2. Catcher is the most injury prone position - if you count dings and bruises along with more serious injuries. The days of a Hundley catching all or nearly all of a teams games are long over.

    #3. If Swihart turns out to be a plus hitter, his offense will be blunted by all the dings etc.

    I'd be much happier having Vazquez be the 3/5 catcher and Swihart be the 2/5 catcher - and give Swihart perhaps another 60 games or so as a DH.

    IF you deal the wrong one and the other flames out or succumbs to injury - then what?

    If you could get a top rank COF then I'd be OK with dealing Swihart (hopefully to the NL) if I had to.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    If Vazquez can stay here OPS wise I think it makes more sense to build a package for trade around Swihart than any other prospect IMO. You can make the case for Mookie too but I think Pedroia is a ticking time bomb between injury and offensive decline, and I think Mookie is a safer bet to be an all star caliber player. If Swihart dips in power which is a significant possibility, he's not that far above average offensively. Plus catchers like Squez are more valuable than their trade value indicates. You'd essentially be selling high on Swihart after this season.
    Why would his power dip and not develop? And Betts will be a star, I think he could put up similar numbers as McCutchen.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by win red sox View Post
    Why would his power dip and not develop? And Betts will be a star, I think he could put up similar numbers as McCutchen.
    Betts doesn't have McCutchens power. If he's anywhere near Cutch we should be ecstatic.

    And Swihart could just be having a good year is what I meant. This is his first year posting an ISO this high. You never know. That whole Portland team was raking this year. I'd like to see him continue to mash in AAA before I commit to saying the power is completely legitimate.

    Swihart is easily a starting catcher though, which is a good floor considering his ceiling. Catching in the minors is thin, his value will be very high.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Lavigne43- View Post
    Swihart has a great arm

    People are mentioning 1b/LF...this is not the prototypical C. Hes been viewed as a guy who could transition to 3b or 2b in the past.
    Then its settled...if WMB continues to suck at 3B this season and next (which I think he will) and Cecchini can't take over 3B, I could see a move to 3B if Swihart's arm and power can play there.

    2016 team:

    C Vazquez
    1B Craig
    2B Pedroia
    SS Bogaerts
    3B Swihart
    LF Betts
    CF JBJ
    RF Cespedes (extension?)
    DH ?????

    However, if we end up trading for a high-profile COF or a Hamels-type pitcher, one of Swihart/Betts is going to have to be included.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BostonSports96 View Post
    Then its settled...if WMB continues to suck at 3B this season and next (which I think he will) and Cecchini can't take over 3B, I could see a move to 3B if Swihart's arm and power can play there.

    2016 team:

    C Vazquez
    1B Craig
    2B Pedroia
    SS Bogaerts
    3B Swihart
    LF Betts
    CF JBJ
    RF Cespedes (extension?)
    DH ?????

    However, if we end up trading for a high-profile COF or a Hamels-type pitcher, one of Swihart/Betts is going to have to be included.
    I don't think WMB will get an opportunity past ST (not including the fastball only phase of camp). If he blows, then he's going to AAA or he's getting dealt.
    Most catchers arms are overkill at 3B IMO - so that's not a problem.

    My 2016 team:

    C: Vazquez (97 games) / Swihart (65)
    1B ?? (I don't think Craig will be around) - FA
    2B Betts (145) / Pedroia or other sub
    3B ?? (WMB, GC, XB, Betts all fail at 3B) - FA or farm
    SS - Marerro
    LF XB (not a good 3B, not a long term SS due to his glove vs Marerro)
    CF JBJ (if he can't raise his hitting vs LHP, it'll be a platoon 4th OF deal)
    RF ?? - Cespedes not able to meet Sox idea of what a good hitter is for the $$, gone - FA or farm
    DH Pedroia (115) Swihart (42)

    I do not see a mega deal for an ace. We're going to sign FA's - and let the kids grow up. I see a deal for an impact hitter to replace Ortiz as more likely.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 08-08-2014 at 06:15 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

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