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  1. #1
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    What did we learn from the first Pre-Season game?

    Well game 1 down and 4 more to go to evaluate the team.

    Manuel looked bad again. I am sure there is going to be a lot of excuses. All year when he has been horrible at practice we hear "its just practice". Now we will hear, "its just pre season". The fact is our GM took a wild swing and miss with drafting this guy. Nothing will change with Manuel, he simply cannot throw a sideline pass. First throw he over throws Sammy by 10 yards along the side line. That was his only side line throw of the game. After all the practices this summer, he goes 2-7 = 19yards. And those yards were mostly all a gift from Williams, who catches a screen and runs for 11 yards. Every other pass was pretty much blocked at the line of scrimmage.

    Sadly there is no plan B for this team, unless Tuel surprises us all and can lead this team. If not, Cleveland fans will be extremely excited to get a top 5 pick next year. Our Defense will be good, but when they give the ball back to the offense, we need a QB to get us a TD not a field goal.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabres11 View Post
    Well game 1 down and 4 more to go to evaluate the team.

    Manuel looked bad again. I am sure there is going to be a lot of excuses. All year when he has been horrible at practice we hear "its just practice". Now we will hear, "its just pre season". The fact is our GM took a wild swing and miss with drafting this guy. Nothing will change with Manuel, he simply cannot throw a sideline pass. First throw he over throws Sammy by 10 yards along the side line. That was his only side line throw of the game. After all the practices this summer, he goes 2-7 = 19yards. And those yards were mostly all a gift from Williams, who catches a screen and runs for 11 yards. Every other pass was pretty much blocked at the line of scrimmage.

    Sadly there is no plan B for this team, unless Tuel surprises us all and can lead this team. If not, Cleveland fans will be extremely excited to get a top 5 pick next year. Our Defense will be good, but when they give the ball back to the offense, we need a QB to get us a TD not a field goal.
    Regardless of EJ's play I think we'll be fine. We have 4 RB's on the roster that can play ball. We're going to be a run heavy team and Sammy will get the ball on short passes and make plays!

    #billsmafia


    Leafs, Raps, Jays, and Bills fan!

  3. #3
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    EJ played poorly. There's no excuse. He hasn't been bad all offseason though...it's been very up and down, very much like how he played in games last season. This team will not have a top 5 pick, they've only been that bad once in the past 12 years. No way do they do that with probably the best all around roster they've had in the last 10+ years. EJ is a huge question mark, but he does not have to be great for this team to succeed. He simply needs to become an average starter and I think this team will compete for a playoff spot. The defense is too good and there are waaaaay too many offensive weapons to think otherwise.

    The biggest issue with the team is the offensive line. I'm more concerned about that since Kouandjio seems to be farther behind than anyone could have imagined. I blame the offensive line for the batted balls more than EJ as well. He only had 3 passes deflected at the line last season and had 3 in 2 series last game.

    Back to EJ....the Watkins pass was clearly overthrown. The Mike Williams pass was there, I just think Mike Williams mistimed his jump. The screen pass was a good read (assuming he has control of the play calling as they say). I don't give him complete blame for 2 of the batted balls (offensive line deserves a lot for that too). The last batted ball that was almost intercepted was just terrible. He stared down Watkins the entire time.

  4. #4
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    For me, the starters weren't in there long enough to make any judgements. With that said, EJ needs to step it up. For the little he played, he was pretty bad. I wish they would have played him more. I'm not really sure why they wouldn't.

    Over the next month, there's a lot of work to do.

    I agree about picking top 5, I just don't see it. A team has to be pretty bad and I don't see us being awful, Really, if EJ makes improvement, we can be pretty good.

  5. #5
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    This team was 6-10 last year. Have they improved enough to have a better record this year? I don't think so.

    It all starts with coaching. Coughlin kept Eli in the game longer that Marrone kept EJ in the game. That decision alone should tell you all what path we are on.

    If you have a QB who cannot throw a sideline pass, we will be doomed as a team.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabres11 View Post
    This team was 6-10 last year. Have they improved enough to have a better record this year? I don't think so.

    It all starts with coaching. Coughlin kept Eli in the game longer that Marrone kept EJ in the game. That decision alone should tell you all what path we are on.

    If you have a QB who cannot throw a sideline pass, we will be doomed as a team.
    Ok, worst case scenario...they finish 6-10 again....that's still not a top 5 pick. Regardless, I'm not sure how you think they didn't get better. The Packers and Bears went 8-8 after losing their starting QB's...do you realize the Bills going through 3 QB's and finishing 6-10 says a whole lot about the roster. This is the best team outside of the QB that the Bills have had in a very long time. Losing Kiko hurts. I'm sure losing Byrd huts a little but he missed 5 or 6 games last year and they were fine. Other than that, where's the downgrade?

    Mike Williams and Stevie are a wash. Healthy Spiller, Watkins, Woods in his 2nd season, Robey in his 2nd season, Spikes, Hughes getting a bigger role all equals improvement. Dixon and Corey Graham on special teams equals big improvement in a part of the game that hurt them a lot. Dixon also is one of the best backs at getting short yardage, something the Bills struggled with last season. Knock the QB all you want, but there are very very few holes in the rest of the roster. Maybe the offensive line, but that's about it. That's something analysts all agreed on before the draft. This is a very well rounded team. There's no way they finish with a top 5 pick. If they can get by with what they had last year at QB and win 6 games, all Manuel has to do is be close to average.

    It's not like this team was getting killed every game. Any of us could name about 3 plays that would have gotten this team to 9 wins. They weren't that far off and they aren't nearly as bad as you think. Are they going to make the playoffs? I'm not going that far...they're still a very young team, but they're definitely coming. 8-8 is the most likely scenario for this team IMO. Even ESPN had this team ranked as the 2nd best team with talent under 25, right behind the Rams. If you want to make big noise this year, you might be disappointed, but this team is set up well for the future. They are at a point now where QB may be the only question. I've even read articles (national media) that outside of the QB the Bills might have the most talent in the division. Whether you agree or not, it's telling that, that is the type of stuff being written about this team now.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Ok, worst case scenario...they finish 6-10 again....that's still not a top 5 pick. Regardless, I'm not sure how you think they didn't get better. The Packers and Bears went 8-8 after losing their starting QB's...do you realize the Bills going through 3 QB's and finishing 6-10 says a whole lot about the roster. This is the best team outside of the QB that the Bills have had in a very long time. Losing Kiko hurts. I'm sure losing Byrd huts a little but he missed 5 or 6 games last year and they were fine. Other than that, where's the downgrade?

    Mike Williams and Stevie are a wash. Healthy Spiller, Watkins, Woods in his 2nd season, Robey in his 2nd season, Spikes, Hughes getting a bigger role all equals improvement. Dixon and Corey Graham on special teams equals big improvement in a part of the game that hurt them a lot. Dixon also is one of the best backs at getting short yardage, something the Bills struggled with last season. Knock the QB all you want, but there are very very few holes in the rest of the roster. Maybe the offensive line, but that's about it. That's something analysts all agreed on before the draft. This is a very well rounded team. There's no way they finish with a top 5 pick. If they can get by with what they had last year at QB and win 6 games, all Manuel has to do is be close to average.

    It's not like this team was getting killed every game. Any of us could name about 3 plays that would have gotten this team to 9 wins. They weren't that far off and they aren't nearly as bad as you think. Are they going to make the playoffs? I'm not going that far...they're still a very young team, but they're definitely coming. 8-8 is the most likely scenario for this team IMO. Even ESPN had this team ranked as the 2nd best team with talent under 25, right behind the Rams. If you want to make big noise this year, you might be disappointed, but this team is set up well for the future. They are at a point now where QB may be the only question. I've even read articles (national media) that outside of the QB the Bills might have the most talent in the division. Whether you agree or not, it's telling that, that is the type of stuff being written about this team now.
    The Bills have a QB who averages 157 yards per game and has had 3 knee surgeries in one year. He has struggled all off season and he is way below where he should be at this stage of the game.

    Kiko Alonzo himself caused 5 turnovers last year. Manuel led the team to 3 total points after those turnovers. Pretty much, our defensive turnovers meant nothing. EJ never capitalized and the opposing team got the ball right back. The one play that stands out, that I brought up before was when Kiko made New England Fumble at the one yard line. Buffalo punted on their possession after that. New England scored a TD after that. All of those people you have mentioned, who the Bills brought in, have to score touchdowns for this team to have gotten better.

    Tonight is game two. Watch the sideline throws. Watch the Accuracy. Count the Yards after Catch. (meaning, when EJ throws a screen and Williams runs for 11-yards, lets not celebrate a 11 yard pass from EJ, celebrate the run by Williams). Watch the balls batted down. Then see if Marrone takes EJ out early as a mercy pulling, like he did against the giants.

    And trust me. I want to eat crow so bad here. But I have watched enough football to know when someone has it and when they don't. Take a look around the league, if you would prefer 25 other teams QB's, rather than your own, you then know you are routing for a bust.
    Last edited by sabres11; 08-08-2014 at 09:25 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabres11 View Post
    The Bills have a QB who averages 157 yards per game and has had 3 knee surgeries in one year. He has struggled all off season and he is way below where he should be at this stage of the game.

    Kiko Alonzo himself caused 5 turnovers last year. Manuel led the team to 3 total points after those turnovers. Pretty much, our defensive turnovers meant nothing. EJ never capitalized and the opposing team got the ball right back. The one play that stands out, that I brought up before was when Kiko made New England Fumble at the one yard line. Buffalo punted on their possession after that. New England scored a TD after that. All of those people you have mentioned, who the Bills brought in, have to score touchdowns for this team to have gotten better.

    Tonight is game two. Watch the sideline throws. Watch the Accuracy. Count the Yards after Catch. (meaning, when EJ throws a screen and Williams runs for 11-yards, lets not celebrate a 11 yard pass from EJ, celebrate the run by Williams). Watch the balls batted down. Then see if Marrone takes EJ out early as a mercy pulling, like he did against the giants.

    And trust me. I want to eat crow so bad here. But I have watched enough football to know when someone has it and when they don't. Take a look around the league, if you would prefer 25 other teams QB's, rather than your own, you then know you are routing for a bust.
    I completely understand you views on EJ. I wasn't defending him at all in my post. I was defending the notion that this team is actually bad enough to finish with a top 5 pick. I'm defending the rest of the roster and saying they are good enough to win 6-8 games in spite of EJ. That's my point. Those screen passes and quick slants, that's something that EJ can do and those are the types of plays that Sammy thrived off of in college. They brought in a player that can turn that 5 yard pass to a 20 yard gain. It will be similar to the way Fitzpatrick used Spiller in the passing game. The Bills just want to get the ball in the hands of their playmakers and let them do the rest. That's how this team is built. Whether it's successful or not, who knows? This offense is about EJ getting the ball out quickly and YAC. That's why they surrounded him with weapons and that's why Stevie wasn't necessarily a fit.

    Also, the balls batted down thing is not an issue. He had 3 balls batted all of last season. Why is he now labeled a QB that gets his ball batted after 2 series in a preseason game. I don't get it. That's the type of stuff thrown in there that I feel is an overreaction. The sideline throws, yes...you're right. The accuracy that comes and goes, right again. The Bills are well aware of his weaknesses and that's why players that will get tons of YAC (Watkins, Williams, Woods) and players with that have a big catch radius (Watkins, Williams) were brought in and that's how they got better. They have players on offense that will somewhat mask EJ's weaknesses.

  9. #9
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    Game 2 was better.

    The only thing that disappointed me was Doug Marrone. He needs to find away to have EJ build his confidence. On the Bills Possession, they go 80 yards down the field. On two consecutive plays, the Bills get the first down, but get bad calls from he refs. Marrone refuses to challenge two plays, which would have given the Bills a1st down. If they would have gotten it, they probably go on to get a TD. Instead, EJ now goes two games without giving the team any points.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabres11 View Post
    Game 2 was better.

    The only thing that disappointed me was Doug Marrone. He needs to find away to have EJ build his confidence. On the Bills Possession, they go 80 yards down the field. On two consecutive plays, the Bills get the first down, but get bad calls from he refs. Marrone refuses to challenge two plays, which would have given the Bills a1st down. If they would have gotten it, they probably go on to get a TD. Instead, EJ now goes two games without giving the team any points.
    It wasn't EJ's fault they didn't score. I think the play calling was a little different in the redzone due to the wanting to work on the run game. This is how we need EJ to play for the Bills to win 8 or 9 games. It wasn't perfect, but you can see how him just being somewhat good makes this offense go due to the weapons. Sammy and Mike are making him look better and will do wonders for the offense. The fact that Woods may be used as a 3rd receiver, should be scary for other teams also. I'll take Woods in any matchup with a safety or a nickel corner. He'll have the advantage.

  11. #11
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    After Williams makes a great grab for 32 yards, along with a couple nice catches from Sammy, EJ needs to put points up on the board.

    We really cant blame the play calling. 1 pass and 3 runs from the goal line is what's to be expected. Sadly though, as I mentioned during OTA's, fade passes in the end zone needed to be stopped during practices, because of how the media was in awe over the inaccuracy of EJ's throws. That is why I keep on saying, we need a QB to be better than slightly good. Any team in the league, would have attempted a fade at least twice with their 4 chances on the goal line, but EJ cant make that throw. (on a side note, he is now 0-3 in the pre-season with side line completions).

    As for coaching, I think its time for Marrone to take away goal line carries from both CJ and Freddy. Last year they both failed miserably and it looks like Dixon and Brown have more power at the goal line. Lets not forget the KC game. A game we should have won. The Bills run 3 times with Freddy on the goal line, stuffed each time, but there is a penalty and Bills get a first down. Bills run twice more, Freddy is then stopped two more times. Tuel throws interception that cost us the game on the next play.

    I have liked the power we have been seeing from both Dixon and Brown. If a few RB's get injured and a contender gets desperate for a RB before the start of the year, lets hope there would be interest in trading CJ in order to get our 1st round pick back.

  12. #12
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    Off the topic here, but has anyone heard what Sage Rosenthal said. He pretty much said that he has a source for a major trade that is in the works between two teams, that would change the face of both franchises. A lot of people who want to remain anonymous said that it involves the Patriots. Some said it could be Andre Johnson to New England, but another person claims that Tom Brady could be traded, involving Manzel heading to New England along with 2 first round picks.

  13. #13
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    I can't believe that Brady would ever be traded.

  14. #14
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    Game 3. -

    Anyone seeing EJ improving? He is still not scoring any points. WR's have to jump a few feet in the air to catch a ball and EJ still has not complete a sideline pass all pre season. 0-3 on Saturday. Good Job by our GM for going all in on EJ and not bringing in a decent backup.
    Last edited by sabres11; 08-18-2014 at 08:52 AM.

  15. #15
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    any QB's headed towards FA?

    Things will always work out in the end, but if you want them to turn out a certain way... You need to make it happen.

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