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  1. #1
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    Shoud the Mets lead MLB by going with a 6-man rotation?

    There's been some talk recently about how a 6-man rotation would help reduce stress on pitchers' arms in the long run especially in light of all the Tommy John surgeries this year. Bobby Valentine pretty much said that 'one starter may pitch less games in one season, but he may pitch many more games in his career' in a 6-man rotation. Yu Darvish recently pushed for a 6-man rotation along with Colby Lewis who both liked the system in Japan.

    With guys like Harvey, Wheeler, Niese, Gee, deGrom, Colon, Montero, Syndergaard, Hefner, Matz etc in the system, maybe the Mets should play to their advantage and push some boundaries many teams aren't willing to do. If there's a team that can roll out an effective 6-man rotation, it's the Mets. This front office is so statistically driven that I'd love to see them be the pioneers of something new in this era of MLB. Each starter would get an extra day of rest, would around pitch 27 games instead of 32 games a year, and pitch about 25-35 less IP per year because of it.

    Yes, the team also needs to fill holes at LF and SS, and trading pitching might be the best way to do that, but say the Mets only deal one of these starters in the off-season, shouldn't the Mets at least consider the idea of a 6-man rotation?

  2. #2
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    It's an interesting idea and would be a cool test. But I'm just not a fan of the idea. We need offense, that's for sure.

    Playoff time are they going to take there 6-man rotation and cut it down to a 4-man rotation? Wouldn't work. Pitchers are very very religious towards their routine. I just don't think it would be safe giving them the extra day and then playoff time needing them to pitch two days earlier. (And no, I don't think a 5-man/6-man rotation is the best idea in the playoffs)
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  3. #3
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    U make a good case for this... but arm injuries start long before said pitcher makes it the majors. Imo, it starts in little league where fathers and coaches push these kids too much.

    A 6 man rotation may throw off the rhythm of a lot of pitchers as well.

    As for a team that could pull this off, I definitely think the mets could be that team especially considering they want to limit the innings of their young pitchers.
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  4. #4
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    It's an interesting idea to say the least. However, I don't buy that those five fewer starts will make a difference. Look at Jose Fernandez and Matt Harvey. They didn't have many innings or starts under their belts professionally and they had to succumb to TJ surgery regardless. You're repeating an unnatural motion, injuries will happen.

    The issue I believe is the workout regime. Too much mass and not enough athleticism. These pitchers are trying to throw too hard which is what evidently forces them to get TJ surgery. The Jamie Moyers of the world pitched for something like 89 years without having shoulder problems, young pitchers should take a page out of his book.

    Pitchers are also very keen on their workout regime, there have been starters who do worse on extra days rest instead of regular rest. I feel as if it also jeopardizes chances to win by taking 5 starts from say Matt Harvey and handing the ball to Dillon Gee instead. (Nothing against Gee but he's clearly not on a level of Matt Harvey)

    I don't like the idea of innings limits either but it wouldn't disrupt pitchers as often. If not innings limits, then have a pitching coach decide when the pitcher should come out of the game, measure by velocity, fatigue, etc.

    Players used to throw 400 innings once upon a time. Granted, they weren't as strong and didn't throw as hard but they were definitely athletic whilst a lot of pitchers now a days are referred to as 'throwers' which clearly has a negative connotation in itself. Learning to pitch and learning to throw a 90mph slider is kind of foreshadowing your doom.

  5. #5
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    Doesn't make sense to me in the NL where you should be pinch hitting for pitchers. I would go in the other direction, with a 4-man rotation.

  6. #6
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    Shoud the Mets lead MLB by going with a 6-man rotation?

    I'm against it. Because I rather have Harvey pitch every fifth day. not every sixth. I want my best guys to get on that mound as many times as possible.
    #oneatatime

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    I

    (1)These pitchers are trying to throw too hard which is what evidently forces them to get TJ surgery. .

    (2) Players used to throw 400 innings once upon a time. Granted, they weren't as strong and didn't throw as hard .
    1. It's not how hard they throw. It's the lack of rest these pitcher had through their teens. They pitched year round and never gave their shoulders any rest. They come to the majors with damaged goods in their shoulders and elbows. Dr. Andrews and other have written papers on this topic.

    The latest stats from Andrews office is the average for TJS in the United States is 17.7 years old.

    (2) Yes, they are throwing harder and movement has taken a back seat to torquing at the hips to increase velocity.

    A 6 man rotation won't heal the damage which was done years ago. Like a bald tire on a car, it's going to pop even if you're careful.

    After TJS and some pitchers who made it though a few years, does a 6 man rotation make sense? Maybe, but if you have a short outing it's an awful long time between starts. You could get 10-12 days between long starts if you have a short outing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acerimusdux View Post
    Doesn't make sense to me in the NL where you should be pinch hitting for pitchers. I would go in the other direction, with a 4-man rotation.
    I'm totally with you on this, I believe there should be a 5 man rotation, but if there is a day off, it should revert to 4. Ex: Your rotation is Harvey/Wheeler/DeGrom/Niese/Gee. If Harvey pitches on a Monday and there is an off day Thursday then Wheeler Tuesday, DeGrom Wednesday, and Niese Friday. You then drop Gee(who theoretically pitched the Sunday before Harvey)who has been the swing man in the pen since Wednesday, and start Harvey on Saturday in his natural 4 day off spot. This system gives your better pitchers more opportunities to pitch. Sick of this arm nurturing.

  9. #9
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    To further this thought having your 5th starter be a swing man, can show other benefits. It helps fortify the bullpen, which in turn could allow for more freedom to pull a pitcher in the 6th inning or so, or it could allow you to carry one less arm in the pen and add a position player, who could help the offense.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by METMANYAK View Post
    I'm totally with you on this, I believe there should be a 5 man rotation, but if there is a day off, it should revert to 4. Ex: Your rotation is Harvey/Wheeler/DeGrom/Niese/Gee. If Harvey pitches on a Monday and there is an off day Thursday then Wheeler Tuesday, DeGrom Wednesday, and Niese Friday. You then drop Gee(who theoretically pitched the Sunday before Harvey)who has been the swing man in the pen since Wednesday, and start Harvey on Saturday in his natural 4 day off spot. This system gives your better pitchers more opportunities to pitch. Sick of this arm nurturing.
    In the system you propose, Gee would be pitching on 4 days rest and would then make his next start on 9 days rest while pitching in the bullpen in between. I don't know if that's the best way to go about things either.

    So far the best argument I've heard for not using a 6-man rotation is the adjustment to pitching in a playoff format. Considering I don't follow Japanese baseball, how do Japanese teams alter their rotations in the playoffs after using 6-man rotations the whole year? If the pitchers show no ill effects in the playoffs, then I'm all ears.

  11. #11
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    But basically the reason I made this thread is to question how else we can advantageously make use of our pitching depth besides just trading it for offense.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpagz3 View Post
    I'm against it. Because I rather have Harvey pitch every fifth day. not every sixth. I want my best guys to get on that mound as many times as possible.
    I guess one can argue Harvey could theoretically make more starts in his career rather than just during the present season.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by yfern328 View Post
    But basically the reason I made this thread is to question how else we can advantageously make use of our pitching depth besides just trading it for offense.
    Realistically, the best way to use our pitching depth would be trading it for offense. I understand the point of the thread, BUT with TC it's very unlikely. Plus taking away 5 starts from a guy like Matt Harvey probably is not the most beneficial.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by yfern328 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rpagz3 View Post
    I'm against it. Because I rather have Harvey pitch every fifth day. not every sixth. I want my best guys to get on that mound as many times as possible.
    I guess one can argue Harvey could theoretically make more starts in his career rather than just during the present season.
    I'd much rather have Harvey on the mound more times in a season at ages 20's and 30's then to be even spread into his 40's
    #oneatatime

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    It's an interesting idea to say the least. However, I don't buy that those five fewer starts will make a difference. Look at Jose Fernandez and Matt Harvey. They didn't have many innings or starts under their belts professionally and they had to succumb to TJ surgery regardless. You're repeating an unnatural motion, injuries will happen.
    The current prevailing theory is that overuse is the main cause of the TJ epidemic. Yeah, sometimes the injury will happen regardless, but more often than not it is caused by working that pitching arm too hard.

    Part of the reason innings restriction hasn't been more effective is that it's an imprecise measure. As you see in any game, a pitcher can throw 7 easy innings, then have a 35-pitch, high-stress inning at the end. (Or beginning) All innings are not alike, in other words. I know DePo actually champions this school of thought, so the Mets are ahead of the curve there.

    It's also worth pointing out that Matt Harvey's innings projection in 2013 was over 76 innings higher than 2012. I don't know what he ended up throwing, but that's a significant increase. Rather than looking at cumulative career workload, it's better to look at the workload from one season to the other. Not expecting that to be the magic pill, either, but it's an interesting angle nonetheless.

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