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View Poll Results: Who is the 6th best position player of all-time?

Voters
23. You may not vote on this poll
  • Alex Rodriguez

    0 0%
  • Mickey Mantle

    1 4.35%
  • Stan Musial

    0 0%
  • Hank Aaron

    17 73.91%
  • Eddie Collins

    0 0%
  • Albert Pujols

    0 0%
  • Tris Speaker

    0 0%
  • Honus Wagner

    1 4.35%
  • Rogers Hornsby

    1 4.35%
  • Lou Gehrig

    3 13.04%
  • Other - Please Specify

    0 0%
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  1. #1
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    6th Best Position Player of All-Time

    JordansBulls did this a few years ago in the NBA section, and I thought it would be fun to do here in the MLB section for MLB players.

    We have so many debates about the greatest of all time and how eras transcend etc. Why don't we make it official?

    I am going to do two separate lists, one for pitchers, and one for hitters. Hitters are up first, and we'll start by doing the top 10, and if the momentum remains, we'll extend beyond that.



    RULES:
    There will be a zero tolerance, one strike policy. If ANY poster is interrupting any of the threads in a negative way, OR causing any problems they're ability to vote will be taken away.
    NO POSTING in your FORUM, VOTE for this GUY. We had problems last time with it and NO POSTING in someone Else's Forum to VOTE for a certain player.


    Criteria: Take into account both peak and career play, era dominance, impact on the game of baseball, and how well their style of play and skills would transcend onto different eras. Statistical values, team values, etc all matter. To be more exact, how great they were at playing the game of baseball.

    So while this thread will be a poll, you vote for one player and then Nominate someone who is not on the list that way as the guys in the original list are selected we know who to add on the subsequent list.

    For example:

    If for #1 you vote Ruth, obviously we will see it in the poll, but don't just vote please, have discussion and include a nomination for who you think should be added to the next ranking on the poll.

    For me I might vote Ruth #1, and then say Nominate: Rogers Hornsby to be on the next poll for the #2 player.


    Current List:

    1. Babe Ruth
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...-all-time-list
    2. Barry Bonds
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...er-of-All-Time
    3. Willie Mays
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...0#post28747590
    4. Ted Williams
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...er-of-All-Time
    5. Ty Cobb
    http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/sho...er-of-All-Time

    Every poll lasts 5 days.

    Nomination is Mickey Mantle

  2. #2
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    Vote: Hank Aaron
    Nominate: Rickey Henderson

  3. #3
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    Vote: Hank Aaron
    Nominate: Rickey Henderson
    Favourite Teams:

    Boston Red Sox: Disappointing regular season, hoping for good things in 2015.
    Indianapolis Colts: 5-2, Week 8 vs. Steelers
    Dallas Mavericks: New team, hoping for good things this season.
    Ottawa Senators: 4-1-0, games this week vs. Toronto, New Jersey, Chicago

  4. #4
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    Vote: Aaron
    Nominate: Mike Schmidt

  5. #5
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    Vote: Hank Aaron

    Nominate: Napoleon Lajoie

  6. #6
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    Hank Aaron
    Nom: Dave Parker

  7. #7
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    Hank Aaron
    Nominate: Frank Thomas

  8. #8
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    Aaron sweeping up here

  9. #9
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    Aaron

    add: Foxx, Greenberg

  10. #10
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    I'll take Gehrig and I like him by a wide margin over Aaron.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbro732 View Post
    I'll take Gehrig and I like him by a wide margin over Aaron.
    Why is that?

    I mean, Gehrig is the better hitter (neutralized) but Gehrig didn't play D like Aaron, and didn't play as long or create as much value all time.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Why is that?

    I mean, Gehrig is the better hitter (neutralized) but Gehrig didn't play D like Aaron, and didn't play as long or create as much value all time.
    I just look at Gehrigs great seasons offensively and Aarons dont quite match up. Pound for Pound Gehrig crushes Aaron offensively.

    I don't penalize Gehrig for contracting a disease that ate his muscles. He played his full final
    season with the disease. I'd assume he would create the same or more value in that season for at least 5-7 more years. The guy was ahead of his time in terms of physical fitness and training. Sure Aaron created more value but he wasn't as good of a ball player as Gehrig.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbro732 View Post
    I just look at Gehrigs great seasons offensively and Aarons dont quite match up. Pound for Pound Gehrig crushes Aaron offensively.
    Gehrig's best seasons are better than Aaron's best seasons, yes

    Gehrig had two seasons over 10 WAR

    (11.8 rWAR and 10.4 rWAR in 27 and 34 - respectively)

    Aaron never had a 10 rWAR season

    Gehrig also had 7 seasons of 8 rWAR or better, Aaron had 8. So that's a little more neutral.

    But Aaron's value is that he had 17 seasons of 5 rWAR or better....17! He had 17 all-star caliber seasons.....Gehrig did manage to have 12 seasons like that, and a 4 and a 3 rWAR season....but that's only 14 seasons in his career where he was productive. Gehrig had the better peak, Aaron had the strong peak with insane longevity (behind these 17 5rWAR seasons, he still had 4 more seasons of productive value in him to boot, that's 21 seasons he was worth playing every day for a team.....that's an insane amount.

    Only other guys that can say this are Ty Cobb, Willie Mays, and Barry Bonds (all already selected...each had 21 seasons of 1 rWAR or better, and Cobb had 23)...then you have Henderson, Musial, Ruth and Collins with 20.



    Aaron was just a good player for sooooo long. Gehrig was amazing, but unfortunately (and really not any fault of his own) his career had to end early.


    I don't penalize Gehrig for contracting a disease that ate his muscles. He played his full final
    season with the disease. I'd assume he would create the same or more value in that season for at least 5-7 more years. The guy was ahead of his time in terms of physical fitness and training. Sure Aaron created more value but he wasn't as good of a ball player as Gehrig.
    5-7 more years? I mean, I agree, he probably could have had a few more productive years, but he was already 36 years old. Very few players post productive seasons age 36 or older (some do, it's just rare). Maybe 2 or 3? But even with 5 more years at 5 rWAR, he would still be short of Aaron (just food for thought).

    I love Gehrig, what a swing, what a guy. I just don't see putting him over Aaron. But he does belong in this group certainly.
    Last edited by Jeffy25; 07-23-2014 at 12:19 AM.

  14. #14
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    Gehrig played the 1938 season with a disease that slowly ate his muscles, ive seen people in real life with the disease its ugly. For a man that never missed a game and played through pain all the time, he had trouble tying his shoes during the 38 season. Yet at 35 years of age with the disease he puts up a respectable season, 4.9 WAR. So his peak basically ends when he gets the disease during the 1938 season. Who is to say that his career nose dives. You could easily argue he has a few more seasons similar to 1937 and then declines.

    Gehrig destroys Aaron in alot of the offensive rate stats. Gehrig is just a much better hitter. Aarons longevity is nice but he never came close to some of the offensive seasons that Gehrig did. Compare some of their stats besides rWAR and his 17 seasons and he doesnt look as nice as Gehrig.
    Last edited by jbro732; 07-23-2014 at 01:06 AM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbro732 View Post
    Gehrig played the 1938 season with a disease that slowly ate his muscles, ive seen people in real life with the disease its ugly. For a man that never missed a game and played through pain all the time, he had trouble tying his shoes during the 38 season. Yet at 35 years of age with the disease he puts up a respectable season, 4.9 WAR. So his peak basically ends when he gets the disease during the 1938 season. Who is to say that his career nose dives. You could easily argue he has a few more seasons similar to 1937 and then declines.

    Gehrig destroys Aaron in alot of the offensive rate stats. Gehrig is just a much better hitter. Aarons longevity is nice but he never came close to some of the offensive seasons that Gehrig did. Compare some of their stats besides rWAR and his 17 seasons and he doesnt look as nice as Gehrig.
    But we can't give him credit for what he might have done. We can only give him credit for what he did do. Same with Aaron, same with every player of all-time.


    Not even just WAR by the way, WAR its just a snap-shot.

    Aaron played the outfield, and was an okay defensive ball player. Gehrig played first, didn't play as long and wasn't much defensively really.

    But 4000 more plate appearances, and an outfielder....and their differences offensively?

    Aaron - .305/.374/.555 - .403 wOBA, 153 wRC+ - 1260 oRAR - 2453 Runs Created
    Gehrig - .340/.447/.632 - .477 wOBA, 177 wRC+ - 1210 oRAR - 2265 Runs Created

    Aaron was weaker on the slash line, but he also played an additional 4000 PA's.....helping him create an additional 200 runs in his career.

    Considering the accumulation of what Aaron did, it's difficult to take a more peak player over a solid peak player with insane longevity.


    It's kind of like this in a vacuum....what would you rather have?

    A guy who hits .340/.450/.630 for 113 games a year playing first base
    Or a guy who hits .300/.375/.550 for 162 games a year playing the outfield?

    That's sort of what you get here, and I'd rather have that outfielder.

    That outfielder is a 6-7 win player for me, that first basemen is a 4-5 win player


    (note, 113 games was selected by the separation of Aaron vs Gehrig's career plate appearance differences).
    Last edited by Jeffy25; 07-23-2014 at 03:11 AM.

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