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  1. #1
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    *** built v bought ***

    The back-to-back finals matchup between the Spurs and Heat has brought the built v bought debate to the fore in the NBA. I read this article on SB Nation (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/6/4...ames-pat-riley) which basically says people hate the Heat because those individuals prefer management power over player power and vice versa. Thoughts?

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    I personally don't have a problem with teams that are willing to spend a ton of money to bring the absolute best players in to help win a title. The way I see it is every owner in the NBA has the same opportunity. Every owner in the NBA has the opportunity to go out and hire the best staff to put the best team on the court. Some people do it through the draft (like the Spurs), some teams do it through trades (like the Mavs), and some teams do it through free agency (like the Heat). In the end the goal is to win the title by any means necessary.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.B View Post
    I personally don't have a problem with teams that are willing to spend a ton of money to bring the absolute best players in to help win a title. The way I see it is every owner in the NBA has the same opportunity. Every owner in the NBA has the opportunity to go out and hire the best staff to put the best team on the court. Some people do it through the draft (like the Spurs), some teams do it through trades (like the Mavs), and some teams do it through free agency (like the Heat). In the end the goal is to win the title by any means necessary.
    i have no respect for the heat, which seem to be the only team that have bought a championship. i dont think that is right, i dont think its fair to the league that teams can just buy a ring, but you can and thats that,

    I can have respect for a team like say the Celtics, who yes, they in a way bought a ring with KG and Allen, but they did it by trading for them, with assets that they aquired though good drafts. at least there is some respect there.

    i also have no problem with a team who builds, and then adds that missing peice, im trying to think of an example other than the bulls and melo, but the way that the GS wariors had peices and then went out and got iggy, is not a bad example. i have no problem with that.

    i also dont have a problem with a team like the clips who had to trade assets to get CP3, but they got him the right way.

    but i do have total respect for built teams. teams that come together peice by peice to become excelent. the spurs are by far my favorite team of the past centery, and will be upset when they do finally hang up their hats.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

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  4. #4
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    buying ships is frowned upon by the majority, it's just goes against the basic principals of competition...... the reason why Miami cop alot of criticism. truth!


    "A lot of basketball players today are overpaid & it influences their game & work ethics in a negative way. They've been given things they haven't earned and I think the game has been cheated." - Michael Jordan

    "Without honor winning holds no value. When one lacks true virtues, victory becomes empty & the unethical triumphs." - B. Modigliani

    #LoyaltyOverRoyalty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    i have no respect for the heat, which seem to be the only team that have bought a championship. i dont think that is right, i dont think its fair to the league that teams can just buy a ring, but you can and thats that,

    I can have respect for a team like say the Celtics, who yes, they in a way bought a ring with KG and Allen, but they did it by trading for them, with assets that they aquired though good drafts. at least there is some respect there.

    i also have no problem with a team who builds, and then adds that missing peice, im trying to think of an example other than the bulls and melo, but the way that the GS wariors had peices and then went out and got iggy, is not a bad example. i have no problem with that.

    i also dont have a problem with a team like the clips who had to trade assets to get CP3, but they got him the right way.

    but i do have total respect for built teams. teams that come together peice by peice to become excelent. the spurs are by far my favorite team of the past centery, and will be upset when they do finally hang up their hats.
    thumbs up


    "A lot of basketball players today are overpaid & it influences their game & work ethics in a negative way. They've been given things they haven't earned and I think the game has been cheated." - Michael Jordan

    "Without honor winning holds no value. When one lacks true virtues, victory becomes empty & the unethical triumphs." - B. Modigliani

    #LoyaltyOverRoyalty

  6. #6
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    Well it's either you buy it (FA, etc) or it's already given to you (draft, etc). Can't say 1 is better than the other when certain teams just get lucky (draft a superstar the year they got top pick or had enough cap space for a FA).

    Either way, you still need to build it properly.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3ballbomber View Post
    buying ships is frowned upon by the majority, it's just goes against the basic principals of competition...... the reason why Miami cop alot of criticism. truth!
    The way I see it is if you don't like them then beat them. So what if they got three stars on their team. They're not invincible, they can't be beat. The Mavs and Spurs proved that. And the Mavs did it with only one real star. If it was really about competition it wouldn't matter how many stars they got on their team. You find a way and you beat them.

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    I watched the bad boys doco on the Pistons last night. Isiah Thomas was 32? when he retired and said he had nothing left to give after giving so much of himself for his team. Through all the obstacles, struggles, wars, defeats and heartbreak his team grew stronger and closer together. Spite of the world hating their brand of basketball and being shunned as negative influence for the league, the Pistons grew to be family and the players become brothers. Brothers who carried scars & wounds - these all made them tougher, hungrier and more determined wich resulted in 2 championships. If Isiah or any of the other big players had left after all those losses they would have not been able to grow as a team and had the opportunity to be able to win those titles. It's much like the Spurs - they stuck it out....had a heart breaking loss last season and then came back, refocused and won it all this year. Scarz & wounds make your team grow and become closer and determined together. This is the basketball i grew up on & was brought up with this sort of competitors. & this was the era that Riley was in and sent that exact message to Lebron & Miami in his media speech asking them 'what they are truly made of? Will you run or stay & over come this together'.

    If Lebron had any sense he would stick it out w/ his brothers in Miami. He already left the Cavs, if he bolts Miami it will be a shame what they've all gone through together just for their leader to leave. This is the perfect opportunity in wich true champions are built on - will Lebron run or gut it out!
    Last edited by 3ballbomber; 07-04-2014 at 04:48 AM.


    "A lot of basketball players today are overpaid & it influences their game & work ethics in a negative way. They've been given things they haven't earned and I think the game has been cheated." - Michael Jordan

    "Without honor winning holds no value. When one lacks true virtues, victory becomes empty & the unethical triumphs." - B. Modigliani

    #LoyaltyOverRoyalty

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanjay View Post
    The back-to-back finals matchup between the Spurs and Heat has brought the built v bought debate to the fore in the NBA. I read this article on SB Nation (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/6/4...ames-pat-riley) which basically says people hate the Heat because those individuals prefer management power over player power and vice versa. Thoughts?

    Personally I hate the Heat not for the players or their choices.. If your a free agent and want to team together and try and win.. I have no issue with that.. My issue came with the how the trio played the media game going on tours with teams talking it all up generating all this PR and when the decision was made already..

    Then the capper was the franchises over the top arrogant intro of the players and general attitude..
    Thats is why I hate the Heat and lost 95% of my interest in the NBA..

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3ballbomber View Post
    I watched the bad boys doco on the Pistons last night. Isiah Thomas was 32? when he retired and said he had nothing left to give after giving so much of himself for his team. Through all the obstacles, struggles, wars, defeats and heartbreak his team grew stronger and closer together. Spite of the world hating their brand of basketball and being shunned as negative influence for the league, the Pistons grew to be family and the players become brothers. Brothers who carried scars & wounds - these all made them tougher, hungrier and more determined wich resulted in 2 championships. If Isiah or any of the other big players had left after all those losses they would have not been able to grow as a team and had the opportunity to be able to win those titles. It's much like the Spurs - they stuck it out....had a heart breaking loss last season and then came back, refocused and won it all this year. Scarz & wounds make your team grow and become closer and determined together. This is the basketball i grew up on & was brought up with this sort of competitors. & this was the era that Riley was in and sent that exact message to Lebron & Miami in his media speech asking them 'what they are truly made of? Will you run or stay & over come this together'.

    If Lebron had any sense he would stick it out w/ his brothers in Miami. He already left the Cavs, if he bolts Miami it will be a shame what they've all gone through together just for their leader to leave. This is the perfect opportunity in wich true champions are built on - will Lebron run or gut it out!

    That was a good documentary on the Bad Boys.. AS talented as todays players are... Id love to see them handle the physical play of that era.. I just dont think many could cope enough to play at a high level..

  11. #11
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    how many teams are really able to build through the draft though? it takes an incredible amount of luck to actually rebuild in the draft. You first need someone in the draft who can actually be a franchise changer, he needs to be available at your pick, and you need this to happen quite a few times. the spurs have had some really good draft luck. for every thunder there are 5 teams that have sat in the lotto for 4 years straight that don't get a single all star because it takes an incredible amount of luck to get an all star in the draft. Likewise it takes a good deal of luck to get someone good in free agency. you need a franchise changer that is willing to change teams and have the cap space and a have a destination that is desirable for free agents. I don't think either one is better then the other.

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    I don't think it changes competitive balance in general, you still have to build your team. The Pistons have been trying to throw big money at players in FA for years with hilariously bad results, it's not like a big FA signing ensures anything of success.

    Miami's situation is unique though. I don't think it's necessarily that it happened through FA, but more of how it happened.

    1) LeBron's The Decision.
    2) The far worse but often forgotten about except for one line Miami Heat Rally Party thingy (not 1, not 2...).
    3) The perception that LeBron, Wade and Bosh colluded to join together from as early as the 2008 Olympics.

    Those three things are despicable, I think that's more where the hate comes from. If you clear the cap space and convince players to join you when you having nothing but cap space then hey, more power to you. Utah has just $16M in cap at this point and a solid group of young talent, but they aren't attracting one or two max FAs anytime soon.
    Last edited by FOXHOUND; 07-04-2014 at 08:16 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhopisthename View Post
    how many teams are really able to build through the draft though? it takes an incredible amount of luck to actually rebuild in the draft. You first need someone in the draft who can actually be a franchise changer, he needs to be available at your pick, and you need this to happen quite a few times. the spurs have had some really good draft luck. for every thunder there are 5 teams that have sat in the lotto for 4 years straight that don't get a single all star because it takes an incredible amount of luck to get an all star in the draft. Likewise it takes a good deal of luck to get someone good in free agency. you need a franchise changer that is willing to change teams and have the cap space and a have a destination that is desirable for free agents. I don't think either one is better then the other.
    I see what you're saying, but don't agree with your Spurs example. Nothing about the Spurs has been lucky, except maybe the stars aligning for them to get Tim Duncan. Other than that they have been operating with picks in the 20's ever since. It's not that they get lucky, it's that they are a grade A++ organization and have an incredible developmental system and coaching system in place. The players the Spurs get are successful because they are on the Spurs.

    Just as they take players off of waivers/FA and turn them into valuable pieces (Danny Green, Boris Diaw, Patty Mills for recent example) they do the same with late draft picks. They take a guy like Kyle Anderson, whose lack of top level athleticism turned most teams away, and will turn him into a solid, all around and two way player in a couple of years time.

    The big thing for SA is that they were ahead of the international curve, which led to them getting Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili as late as they did back in the day. If those drafts happened now, with the way all 30 teams now scout internationally, I don't think you see those two there for the Spurs picks anymore. Since then it's not like they have been pulling All-Stars out of the late 1st/2nd round picks that they've had. Notable drafted Spurs since then are what? Tiago Splitter, solid but nothing special. George Hill, good for the 26th pick that they used on him but again nothing special. The flipping of George Hill for a 16th pick just two years after drafting him is what was special, and that allowed them to get a talent like Kawhi Leonard.

    But again, would Kawhi Leonard be Kawhi Leonard if he wasn't a Spur? Hmmmmm.
    Last edited by FOXHOUND; 07-04-2014 at 08:19 AM.

  14. #14
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    The thing with the whole Built vs. Bought Paradigm is people love the latter when the former is much more common.

    We're people shunning the Lakers when they signed Shaq to team with Kobe? No Shaq=No rings

    Did People Poo-Poo Barkley-Pippen-and Hakeem joining forces in Houston? Don't remember it.

    How about Harden and Dwight in Houston now? Doubt it.

    The things is "built" teams like the Spurs and Thunder are VERY VERY hard to maintain since the better you become, the higher your draft pick. Everybody can't be the spurs and draft all star starters in the Late first and second rounds (Parker, Manu, Dragic,etc.)

    For a team to compete for a title, it usually needs a mix of built and bought; a couple of core guys you draft with that one markee agent that's potent enough to put the team over the top. Examples include:

    Clippers (Blake+CP3)
    Memphis (Marc Gasol+ ZBO)
    Golden State (Curry/Klay+Lee and (maybe) Love)
    Miami (Dwade+ LBJ/Bosh)
    late 2000s Celtics (Pierce+KG/Allen)
    2000s Pistons (Billups+ the Wallaces)

    etc. etc.
    Broncos be like:


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    So let me guess there should not be a free agency? Or a team shouldn't have the smartest brain in the business and grab all the free agents they can within the cap limit? What is it?

    Can't have it both ways. Pretty sure same fans that hate the Heat because they had the greatest free agents ever in a year wanted all of LeBron, Wade, and Bosh. They would love it if Pat Riley was their president/gm. Those same teams are crying for LeBron and Melo this year and would be ecstatic if they can and them. Pathetic.

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