as an all time PG? As an all time great?
probably 5th as a pg(magic,oscar,fraizer,stockton and count west as a sg) and probably somewhere in the 30's as a player
Good question. A lot of people ignore his greatness because he was a big time jerk.
I have him top 5 pg all time, top 20 player all time.
I'd have Isiah in the top ten, 8th or so. Can't forget Nash either.
I think rankings of just about anything are worthless. Subjective. Inherently unfair to the older of whatever is being ranked. Swayed by popular opinion.
I just find it interesting that there is no consideration of championships here when they are such a determining factor in rankings of shooting guards and centers.
All that said, Isiah is definitely better, on overall balance than most all the guys listed so far as being his betters. I can sort of understand people wanting to rank Kidd above him, but Isiah could just do much more than Kidd. Nash? CP3? Payton? ...please now...
Those are just the first that come to my mind as greats in random order.
For PGs I go with
Last edited by Tony_Starks; 06-20-2014 at 10:22 PM.
Top 20 all-time arguably, though I have him in my top 25.
I think we have to start doing generation top tens instead of all time top ten. There's just no way to judge ones greatness in different eras of basketball. Different rules, different eras..different list
Isiah was an excellent defender, the originator of the crossover, and a clutch scorer. J Kidd was not the offensive player Isiah was and neither Nash nor CP3 were the defensive player Isiah was.
Payton is interesting. I'm probably partial to Payton myself. I've never thought about it but I would say it's close enough where it probably doesn't matter who you put ahead of who.
Realistically speaking you would have to take Payton, Isiah, Maravich, Oscar, Frazier, and maybe 2 or 3 others I'm not thinking of and pull their name out of a hat and any order you go with, IMO, would probably be fair.
ESPN has Isiah 3rd. I'm okay with that.
not sure where to rank him. but i did meet Magic Johnson today
Top 7 give or take 2
steal of the draft cleanthony early
I don't see cp3 Nash Payton Kidd Stockton winning one championship let alone 2 with the pistons teams isiah won with. Just my opinion.
Sometime I feel isiah is under apprieciated because jordan hated him but the reason jordan hated him is cause isiahs teams dominated Jordan's teams for Jordan's first 7 years in the league.
I've def got Zeke right around Payton or Kidd somewhere in the 30's; Who were both more well rounded and imo better PGs.
Edit: I'm looking at his "Advanced Stats" line on bbref right now and it's super unimpressive. .109 WS/48, 18.1 PER and .516 TS%. Those are not legend #'s you will find on virtually any other player that we're talking about in a top 20 discussion.
Last edited by tredigs; 06-21-2014 at 01:02 AM.