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  1. #1
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    Carlyle Signs 2 Year Extension, Rest Of Staff Canned

    Carlyle get's a 2 year extension and the rest of the coaching staff... See ya lates! http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=451611
    If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

  2. #2
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    I guess this means no Babs, or Trotz, or anybody.. Personally I hate the extension part, but there were a few times you could see Carlyle was peeved at his assistants, doesn't really come as a surprise that at least 1 was let go. If it makes a difference Carlyle saves his reputation, and if next year is more of the same then he'll be Ron Wilson'd before you know it.
    If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

  3. #3
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    Well we knew coming into the off season that either there will be a coaching change or the leaders on the team will change... Can we really go ahead and have the same coach and similar line-up next year?


    Leafs, Raps, Jays, and Bills fan!

  4. #4
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    I think a few guys will want out with Carlyle staying, Lupul because he was an all-star and our top line LW the year before Randy got here, and he hasn't been put with the best players in recent years, and maybe Clarkson (may not want to be stuck on the 3rd or 4th line). Franson may also want out because of his demotion at the end of last year but he sucks anyways.
    If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

  5. #5
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    The sooner they get rid of Nonis, Carlyle and the rest of this management team the better. Until then this team is going to make brilliant decisions like this one. I guess it shouldn't be a surprise but it's disappointing nonetheless.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  6. #6
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    Leafs should bring in Kirk Mueller as an assistant.

  7. #7
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    I'm more interested in the roster now . Who will stay and, who will go. I wounder who Carlyle will bring in his own assistance. Maybe bring Trotz ? Of course you are going to get those angry fans. Combined with confused fans, I'm sure its going to be a long off-season.
    Last edited by ryhno; 05-08-2014 at 05:30 PM.

  8. #8
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    Well..Well...Well,wasn't I right.
    It's the players that is gotta take responsibility of what has happened in last 3 years and finally it says 2 all the players,u are the reason that blew it,u did it with Maurice(even thought some weren't there,but the bad vibe was still there),u did it with Wilson and ure try 2 do it with Carlyle,well not gonna happen,big changes are coming...BIG CHANGES.
    Ppl I stated from beginning it wasn't Randy Carlyle fault,it's the players they quit,they showed no class,no leadership,no heart...their is bigger things brewing in that locker room.
    I always stated Randy was good coach,his old school coach,a stanley cup coach,he will learn from this,don't be surprised if leafs do well next year.
    Changing culture,when leafs say changing culture,players were the number one target that needed 2 be changed,not the coach.
    Last edited by MoneyBall20; 05-08-2014 at 05:29 PM.

    “The pleasure of rooting for Goliath is that you can expect to win. The pleasure of rooting for David is that, while you don’t know what to expect, you stand at least a chance of being inspired.”

  9. #9
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    ^^

    Which of the players have to take the responsibility for what happened? Cause I'm having a hard time pinning this on JVR, Kessel, Bernier, Phaneuf, Kadri, Gardiner, Reilly or Bozak, to name a few.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  10. #10
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    I'm starting to think that "Rover" player Carlyle was talking about was actually Dion. I'm looking at his ice time and it dipped a little bit 5 on 5 in the last month but his QoC went up (He faced the highest competition this year of all the defenseman in the NHL). I can't remember exactly what Carlyle said but it strikes me as odd that he got a 2-year deal when Hitchcock just got a 1-year extension.

    Although, I doubt he was talking about Dion because of how much he relied on him, but i wouldn't be surprised if it was Dion he was talking about (in addition to Franson). I think i pointed this out but, late in the year Dion was playing way different than i've seen him play before. Basically in the defensive zone he would just stand and hug a post and not move until someone came close to the net. Normally he's roaming a little bit, but he was pretty clearly hurt or told not to move from the post. Kinda give me the impression that Carlyle (or maybe the D coach) told Dion to buy into their style of play or else. He did, he failed, it failed and people lost their jobs. The only guy that had his stock rise in the late stages on the year was Gardiner (in terms of his icetime).


    This news has kinda got my brain working overtime trying to figure out what they are thinking. If your giving Carlyle a contract it means you are on the same page regardless. But where it gets tricky is, since they are on the same page did Shanny say "I'm trading Dion and Kessel and we're going to tank" and this deal signifies Carlyle as a lame-duck coach, to which Carlyle accepted the role. Or did Shanny say "I think these guys can win, i'm going to bring in guys to support Dion and Kessel, who do you want gone and who do want want brought in"? It's a puzzle to me.

    The fact that the assistants lost their jobs (they usually are specialized assistants, as in 1 asst for Defense, one for offense, special teams, etc. gives me the impression that Shanny is going the "We can win route" because the firing of them sends me a message like "Carlyle can work with our core, the other guys can't". Carlyle didn't inherit any of these guys, IIRC he was involved in bringing in/keeping most of them. So i don't think Carlyle threw them under the bus to save his job. Idk, i might be way over-thinking this but i would like to know why Carlyle got more years than Hitch. That point alone, makes me think Shanny has told him we are stripping it down and tanking but the firing of the assistants gives me the idea that they like the core and want assistants that work better with Dion and Kessel. If they are trading them, then what is the point of firing the assistants? Obviously Carlyle can work with them, it's not like they were forced on him. Wait and see who you bring in (if you do trade the core) and see if the assistant gel.

    tl;drMixed messages everywhere in the announcement, imo. I see "Tank" and a see "We can win" in both decisions.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twitchy View Post
    ^^

    Which of the players have to take the responsibility for what happened? Cause I'm having a hard time pinning this on JVR, Kessel, Bernier, Phaneuf, Kadri, Gardiner, Reilly or Bozak, to name a few.
    I'm with you.

    Gleason, Lupul, Franson, Bolland (Injury hole he created, but i can't blame him for getting hurt) were 4 pretty big detriments to this team imo. Take them off and bring in league-average players that won't kill you, and i think this team is better off next year. The 50 points you get from Lupul doesn't make up for the fact

    Top 10 most scored on Leafs 5 on 5 (GA/60):

    1: Bozak
    2: Jvr
    3: Lupul
    4: Rielly
    5: Franson
    6: Kessel
    7: Kadri
    8: Gleason
    9: Raymond (yea, good value but still not enough to warrant being bad 5on5)
    10: Phaneuf

    The bolded players don't have the production or upside to negate the fact they get scored on so much. And at least you know your top-line players are playing against other top-line players. But these are depth 2nd line forwards and bottom-4 pairing defenseman making up most of this list. Get rid of the bolded, bring in players that aren't so bad defensively and you will have a better team. How much better? no way to know for sure. That's how you build a team. Cut the excess weight to make the team leaner.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twitchy View Post
    ^^

    Which of the players have to take the responsibility for what happened? Cause I'm having a hard time pinning this on JVR, Kessel, Bernier, Phaneuf, Kadri, Gardiner, Reilly or Bozak, to name a few.

    Twitchy,

    Veteran players my friend,no way in any league this should happened.
    This didn't happened once,3 years in a row and it's not acceptable.
    The guys u mention are young Core players,u can't blame them bc their not the leaders,not veterans,however Dion and Kessel are so called ure best players and leaders and that's where it starts.
    Both of these players were here when this s@!t started 2 roll,collapse, don't get me wrong I like Kessel,but if u want 2 go forward with different mind set,a different culture,kessel is got 2 go.
    Boston figure that out and shipped his arse out of boston,time for toronto 2 go that route.
    As for Dion,no way he stays,he will be dealt before July 1st deadline,before his deal kicks in.
    He is the main cog what is wrong with this team,changing culture means,getting new blood and u can't stick with Dion,reminds me of Rudy Gay when he was here with Toronto Raptors..
    Rudy would get most shots,hogs the ball,get all the attention when it's good,but when it's bad,he runs away,it suffered with him in the line up.
    Same with Dion,Dion would get 25 minutes,play okay,not great,but decent...u c tendencies of break down,when it was going bad,he was the main reason,when the team needed it's captain 2 rise and not back down,he would back down and run away,u can't have that...
    U move Dion,everything changes,Captain is gone,different players have different roles..ie..Morgan Reilley has bigger role..same with what happened with T ross (raptors)..
    Honestly I think Tim Lewieke saw how raptros changed with their so called best player gone, could eventually change similar to the maple leafs culture.


    “The pleasure of rooting for Goliath is that you can expect to win. The pleasure of rooting for David is that, while you don’t know what to expect, you stand at least a chance of being inspired.”

  13. #13
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    I agree, you ship Dion out and everything changes... but not for the better (unless you want to tank).

    Basketball and Hockey are way different.

    Rudy gay was a statistical nightmare. Dion is a statistical darling. Every stat out there shows that Dion is playing way too many minutes and against way too high a caliber opponent. Dion should not be relied on more than Weber is in Nashville. But that speaks to depth, they real issue with the team.


    End of the year over-reactions are common in sports. I just heard HC@ noon rip into the Blues and say that they had no "playoff gamers" a week ago. That's one of the best teams in the league getting ripped. SJS have completed a pretty impressive collapse again. years and years of being a top-seeded regular season team only to fail in the playoffs. I'm not dissing them, but that's the talk around them. Every year it's "No-show Joe [Thornton]" being talked about in the playoffs. Tim and Sid saying he has no heart. It's ridiculous.

    Now a team like SJS losing with little support from Thornton or Marleau in the playoffs is different than a team like the Leafs sucking with Dion and Kessel playing badly the last two months. SJS has depth, Leafs have none.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyBall20 View Post
    [SIZE=2][B]Twitchy,

    Veteran players my friend,no way in any league this should happened.
    Veteran coach too.

    This didn't happened once,3 years in a row and it's not acceptable.
    The Leafs collapsed in the regular season? They were 10 minutes away from a second round appearance. Unless the game 7 collapse is what you're referring too.

    The guys u mention are young Core players,u can't blame them bc their not the leaders,not veterans,however Dion and Kessel are so called ure best players and leaders and that's where it starts.
    I certainly hope you're not about to criticize Phil Kessel, the primary reason the Leafs were even sniffing a playoff spot for the first 70 or so games of the season. You know, the guy who put up the big points totals when lines 2, 3 and 4 did absolutely nothing.

    B
    oth of these players were here when this s@!t started 2 roll,collapse, don't get me wrong I like Kessel,but if u want 2 go forward with different mind set,a different culture,kessel is got 2 go.
    So it's Kessel's fault that the rest of the team didn't produce? What exactly is Kessel's fault here? As I said before, without Kessel's 70-80 points the Leafs wouldn't have collapsed, because they would have been on the outside looking in.

    Who do we replace Kessel with? How do the Leafs get better by getting rid of an elite scorer?

    Boston figure that out and shipped his arse out of boston,time for toronto 2 go that route.
    So you're saying Boston couldn't have won with Kessel? I find that hard to believe. They got a fantastic deal for him and they took it, is more like it.

    They also shipped out Seguin, who did pretty well once he was traded. Was Boston unable to win with him too?

    As for Dion,no way he stays,he will be dealt before July 1st deadline,before his deal kicks in.
    He is the main cog what is wrong with this team,
    If I understand correctly, your problem is that Phaneuf, who goes up against Crosby and every team's best players, and actually does a good job at stopping them, is the Leafs biggest problem? I think the issue is the guys supporting Phaneuf. Where is the other top pairing defenceman? Where are the depth players to support Phaneuf, Reilly & Gardner?

    changing culture means,getting new blood and u can't stick with Dion,reminds me of Rudy Gay when he was here with Toronto Raptors..
    Is Phaneuf hogging the puck and not passing it to Kessel? It's apples and oranges. Hockey is more about depth than basketball is. If the Leafs are going to get new blood, it should be to replace Clarkson, Orr, McClaren, Gleason, Franson...basically the third pairing on D and the third/fourth line forwards. The top end guys aren't the problem - the problem is the lack of top end players (two way centers and top pairing defenceman) and a lack of depth. But the top end guys the Leafs have are certainly good.

    Rudy would get most shots,hogs the ball,get all the attention when it's good,but when it's bad,he runs away,it suffered with him in the line up.
    Same with Dion,Dion would get 25 minutes,play okay,not great,but decent
    And do you know why Phaneuf played 25 minutes? Because when he wasn't playing, Franson and Gleason were ****ing it up and turning the puck over so the opponents could score.

    If Phaneuf played 22-23 minutes, opponents would have had even more shots and goals against. Which goes back to depth, and the idiotic system led by your friend Coach Randy.

    .
    ..u c tendencies of break down,when it was going bad,he was the main reason,when the team needed it's captain 2 rise and not back down,he would back down and run away,u can't have that...
    I can't understand how Phaneuf playing more minutes, being aggressive on D, and playing through injuries is backing down and running away. That's something you'll have to explain to me.

    U move Dion,everything changes,Captain is gone,different players have different roles..ie..Morgan Reilley has bigger role..same with what happened with T ross (raptors)..
    By stepping up like T Ross you mean be invisible in the playoffs and costing the Raptors a shot at the second round? Reilly's development would be hurt by being forced to go against Crosby this early in his career, because he's simply not ready. He can handle sheltered minutes, but he's not ready to be a #1.

    Honestly I think Tim Lewieke saw how raptros changed with their so called best player gone, could eventually change similar to the maple leafs culture.
    Lewieke also thought that Clarkson was a good player, that Nonis was a good GM, and that Carlyle was a good coach, so you'll have to excuse me if I don't take his word or scouting ability as gospel.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  15. #15
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    Every year before the playoffs I say to myself "there is no way LA can go deep again they are too slow and dont have enough scoring"

    Then I watch them play a few playoff games and say "nobody can beat these guys"

    Why?
    Because there lunch-pail roster matches perfectly with there lunch-pail coach. Sutter must just salivate watching guys like Mike Richards, Stoll, Williams etc play such a necessary back seat role to pure perfection. That team make up matches the coach's style and it is no coincidence that success follows players like Richards and Stoll around to every team in every league they have played in.

    The leafs have a good coach (I have stated this before) but they dont have a roster that matches Randy's style. These old school coaches demand your best player has to be your hardest working and that will never be the case here. One thing Randy needs to implement early in the season is accountability. If Therrien can bench PK for an entire period Randy has to be able to do that with Dion, Kessel or whoever it may be.

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