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  1. #1
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    Is Tulowitzki the best hitting + fielding shortstop of the last 50 years?

    I think he might be the most under rated superstar in the MLB.

  2. #2
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    A-Rod

  3. #3
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    Well that ended quickly.

  4. #4
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    Known steroid users don't count.

  5. #5
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    A-Rod, easily better


    And plenty of other guys came and went, like Nomar, Tejada, Jeter (who didn't come and go)


    And he isn't under-rated as a superstar....he doesn't stay on the field enough and plays in a hitters paradise where the team average is currently .295


    If he starts playing 150 games every year, and does it for 5+ years in a row, then he'll be called a superstar.....but A-Rod was more talented

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by natsbats View Post
    Known steroid users don't count.
    They just never existed?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by natsbats View Post
    Known steroid users don't count.
    A-Rod was a better hitting and fielding SS than Tulo is.

  8. #8
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    He wasn't a better fielder. I feel pretty confident Tulo is better and the metrics support it.

    6.3 Defensive WAR in 790 games before he suppousedly used roids vs. Tulo 13 Defensive WAR in 895 games.

    Offensively, before ARod used Roids (so only Seattle) he was putting up better offensive numbers.

    .380 wOBA vs. .398 wOBA

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by natsbats View Post
    He wasn't a better fielder. I feel pretty confident Tulo is better and the metrics support it.

    6.3 Defensive WAR in 790 games before he suppousedly used roids vs. Tulo 13 Defensive WAR in 895 games.

    Offensively, before ARod used Roids (so only Seattle) he was putting up better offensive numbers.

    .380 wOBA vs. .398 wOBA
    wOBA is a pretty joke comp considering the ballparks

    He has a 124 wRC+ vs A-Rods 137


    And you conveniently ignore his prime years, which Tulo has enjoyed

    And A-Rod still played, he's played in the last 50 years.....how do we know Tulo isn't using roids? You don't, I don't, we don't know.

  10. #10
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    A-Rod: .308/.382/.581/.407 wOBA/144 wRC+ as a SS and then at age 28 while in his prime he gave up the position to move to 3B even though he was the superior SS.

    Masahiro Tanaka

    11-1| 99.2 IP| 10.20 K/9| 1.44 BB/9| 0.90 HR/9| 1.99 ERA| 2.70 FIP| 2.32 xFIP| 2.9 fWAR

  11. #11
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    FWIW...rWAR through age 29:

    Tulo - 34.8
    ARod - 63.5 (only through 27, switched to 3B)
    Ripken - 57.5
    Yount - 50.4 (only through 28, switched to OF)
    Trammell - 45.7
    Nomar - 41.2
    Jeter - 40.2
    Hanley - 32.9
    Fregosi - 45.9
    Larkin - 34.6
    Reyes - 30.8
    Rollins - 33.1

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    A-Rod, easily better


    And plenty of other guys came and went, like Nomar, Tejada, Jeter (who didn't come and go)


    And he isn't under-rated as a superstar....he doesn't stay on the field enough and plays in a hitters paradise where the team average is currently .295


    If he starts playing 150 games every year, and does it for 5+ years in a row, then he'll be called a superstar.....but A-Rod was more talented
    Tejada and Jeter were never anywhere near as good defensively, and Nomar had the same injury trouble, and preferable hitters parks for the majority of his career.
    Though A-Rod was the complete package.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by natsbats View Post
    Known steroid users don't count.
    Why? It certainly never helped his defense.
    Last edited by ciaban; 04-30-2014 at 02:10 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Holders View Post
    FWIW...rWAR through age 29:

    Tulo - 34.8
    ARod - 63.5 (only through 27, switched to 3B)
    Ripken - 57.5
    Yount - 50.4 (only through 28, switched to OF)
    Trammell - 45.7
    Nomar - 41.2
    Jeter - 40.2
    Hanley - 32.9
    Fregosi - 45.9
    Larkin - 34.6
    Reyes - 30.8
    Rollins - 33.1
    And that's with playing 7 years in the king dome.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by natsbats View Post
    Known steroid users don't count.
    If Arod isn't an option, I take Ripken over Tulo.

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