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Thread: Black and White

  1. #1
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    Black and White

    I started thinking about why this forum is so polarizing. Why is everything so black and white. Love and hate. I am starting to think it is the nature of forums. Middle ground is boring, isn't it? Much more fun to be polarizing. But do these polarizing hot button topics need to be rehashed in every thread. What am I talking about:

    * Cashman is the best/worst GM ever. Nope, neither. He's a pretty good GM, with a lot of cushion/cash.

    * CC is an ace/bum. He was an ace. Last year he was aweful. This year, he will probaby be in the middle.

    * Nova is a bun/best pitcher ever. More likely he will show he is a solid number 3 with a sub 4 ERA and 16-17 wins.

    * Solarte will win the batting crown/should be DFA'd. I'm betting he will either wind up being a solid starting IF or a great utility man.

    * Advanced stats are all that matters/irrelevant. Well, you know the drill.

    Just my Tuesday pontificating.

    Best,
    LL
    Solarte, oh, oh!
    Solarte, oh, oh, oh, oh!

    [Nel blu, dipinto di blu
    Felice di stare lassł
    Nel biu, dipinto di blu
    Felice di stare lass]

  2. #2
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    Arod is innocent!

    RUDY

  3. #3
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    I don't think I've ever heard anyone say Cashman is the worst nor best GM in baseball on this forum. Even I have never said that, although this is mostly due to my ignorance of what's going on in the rest of baseball. Cashman may very well be the worst, because bad GMs don't often remained employed. Cashman on the other hand appears untouchable no many how many blunders he makes.
    "I'm an administrator. I'm a good listener. I would not pass myself off as an evaluator of talent"

    - Brian Cashman, GM of the Yankees

  4. #4
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    It's a product of the current state of affairs in this country in general, people are polarized, but the side with facts on their side will always be correct. I imagine the same people who don't advocate advanced stats are the same who don't understand/acknowledge that climate change is anthropogenic because it's intellectually taxing. It's easier to be extreme in your beliefs than it is to objectively analyze. CC is not an ace anymore, thats obvious, but with his workhorse abilities he still has value, Nova is inconsistent which is annoying, but he's certainly not terrible, Cashman has made some errors, but a largely unmentioned point is ownerships meddling in finances and trades, it goes on and on, there is also some celebration of ignorance on here that waxes and wanes with the time of year etc. I wouldn't take anything said too seriously.
    THE GOAT

    Until a player reaches these PA numbers, lets not talk about how good they are.


    The Following PA's are when sample size stabilizes

    50 PA: Swing %
    100 PA: Contact Rate
    150 PA: Strikeout Rate, Line Drive Rate, Pitches/PA
    200 PA: Walk Rate, Groundball Rate, GB/FB
    250 PA: Flyball Rate
    300 PA: Home Run Rate, HR/FB
    500 PA: OBP, SLG, OPS, 1B Rate, Popup Rate
    550 PA: ISO

  5. #5
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    To add to my point, there are certain instances where black and white is good. I believe math is black and white. Advanced stats will paint a better picture of production over the course of a season than counting stats like RBIs and Wins, that is non-negotiable. All of the other stuff OP mentioned should fit somewhere in the middle eg, CC's not an ace, but he has value, Nova is inconsistent, but he's not terrible, Solarte isn't a 350 hitter, but maybe he can be a productive piece, and Cashman isn't Brian Sabean, but he's also not Scott Layden.
    THE GOAT

    Until a player reaches these PA numbers, lets not talk about how good they are.


    The Following PA's are when sample size stabilizes

    50 PA: Swing %
    100 PA: Contact Rate
    150 PA: Strikeout Rate, Line Drive Rate, Pitches/PA
    200 PA: Walk Rate, Groundball Rate, GB/FB
    250 PA: Flyball Rate
    300 PA: Home Run Rate, HR/FB
    500 PA: OBP, SLG, OPS, 1B Rate, Popup Rate
    550 PA: ISO

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CostanzaNumba0 View Post
    To add to my point, there are certain instances where black and white is good. I believe math is black and white. Advanced stats will paint a better picture of production over the course of a season than counting stats like RBIs and Wins, that is non-negotiable. All of the other stuff OP mentioned should fit somewhere in the middle eg, CC's not an ace, but he has value, Nova is inconsistent, but he's not terrible, Solarte isn't a 350 hitter, but maybe he can be a productive piece, and Cashman isn't Brian Sabean, but he's also not Scott Layden.
    as long as people can sit behind their computer (anonymously) and call players names ..that they think are cute, make statements of opinion as they were fact with out retribution you are going to get this stuff. The fact of the matter is nobody on this board in an expert or they'd be employed by a MLB team.

  7. #7
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    I actually think there is a middle ground and then an extreme with many of the players you mention including Gardner.

    CC - No longer an ace or even the best pitcher in the rotation but hopefully can provide decent value.

    Nova - Inconsistent pitcher with the potential to be a solid middle of the rotation starter.

    Gardner - Solid player who provides great value with his speed and defense. He is not a powerhouse with the bat.

    Cashman - Middle of the pack GM who is honestly nothing special but not the worst GM in the league. He has is strengths and weaknesses.

    I don't see many people calling CC an ace anymore, Nova trash of a pitcher, Gardner a superstar, or Cashman the best GM in baseball.

    However you do have people calling CC the worst pitcher in baseball or trash, Nova an ace, Gardner overrated, and faulting Cashman on almost every move he makes.

    Masahiro Tanaka

    11-1| 99.2 IP| 10.20 K/9| 1.44 BB/9| 0.90 HR/9| 1.99 ERA| 2.70 FIP| 2.32 xFIP| 2.9 fWAR

  8. #8
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    no doubt Arod is innocent. And will come back next year, totally healed and in great shape....He will be a +.300 hitter with 50+ homers. 30 stolen bases lol...Mark my word

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yankees 1903 View Post
    I actually think there is a middle ground and then an extreme with many of the players you mention including Gardner.

    CC - No longer an ace or even the best pitcher in the rotation but hopefully can provide decent value.

    Nova - Inconsistent pitcher with the potential to be a solid middle of the rotation starter.

    Gardner - Solid player who provides great value with his speed and defense. He is not a powerhouse with the bat.

    Cashman - Middle of the pack GM who is honestly nothing special but not the worst GM in the league. He has is strengths and weaknesses.

    I don't see many people calling CC an ace anymore, Nova trash of a pitcher, Gardner a superstar, or Cashman the best GM in baseball.

    However you do have people calling CC the worst pitcher in baseball or trash, Nova an ace, Gardner overrated, and faulting Cashman on almost every move he makes.
    Correct and they get to do it behind the cover of their computers. It's easy to criticize, trash and call players names when there are no consequences to your actions

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sicknick12 View Post
    no doubt Arod is innocent. And will come back next year, totally healed and in great shape....He will be a +.300 hitter with 50+ homers. 30 stolen bases lol...Mark my word
    I would die. That would be the most fantastic F U to bud

    RUDY

  11. #11
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    The extreme viewpoints are really only possessed by a very small minority who also serve as the pushers of the referenced nauseating topics. Their numbers are low, but voices reign loudest.

    Perhaps we should question the intent more so than the opinion. Is it provided incessantly in provocation? Is the manner it is presented an indirect means to bait? Is the goal to obstruct rather than exchange?

    The issue, one of which I too am guilty, is awarding credence to the obstructionists through acknowledgement. We feel compelled to counter, but dignify posts in doing so.

    Another major cause of the rifts is the constant misrepresentations of opinion. Some often portray the sentiment of others incorrectly. They falsely claim Gardner is presented as a superstar and CC is still felt to be elite. Again, we must ask ourselves if the problem lies in comprehension or representation? Is there actual intent to create tensions by portraying opposing sentiment inaccurately? Also, a lack of humility can sometimes cause opposing viewpoints to be extreme.

    The most vocal and provocative dictate the tone and topics. It is why we are subjected to "Fatty, Slappy, and the Ace" as well as the exhausting statistics debate. The majority aren't polarizing or extreme. Things just seem that way.
    Last edited by Renz13; 04-15-2014 at 05:20 PM.

  12. #12
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    Arod! Easily the most polarizing and I love it.

    Forums are meant to provide ones opinion, whether right, wrong or off the charts of reality.

    It's similar to fans at a game chanting Yankees Suck when we won a zillion rings. Of course we didn't suck, but they have the right to chant that. It's funny.

    Maybe if posters had more fun with it, instead of pretending sports are life or death.......then there would just be good natured fun ribbing of each others thoughts.

    Fatty. He stinks for the money. Lets face it. But he obviously doesn't stink cause he plays pro ball.

    Slappy. Love the guy. But he could be soooooooo much better. His instincts are comical. Bunting, stealing, throwing.

    Ace. The ace is the best pitcher on the team. Nova pitched 24 straight games without giving up more than 4 runs. He had the best record. The best era. So, until dethroned, he's been the best the last year. Plus, I love him. Hopefully, he's 5th best this year cause then we are damn good.

    Jake. Love that fkr. He's only been here two weeks. He's EASILY our best overall player.

    Cashman. He's hilarious. Love him too.

    Hal. Greatest guy in the league.

    Leo. Best looking poster in PSD history. True. Fact.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laying Low View Post
    I started thinking about why this forum is so polarizing. Why is everything so black and white. Love and hate. I am starting to think it is the nature of forums. Middle ground is boring, isn't it? Much more fun to be polarizing. But do these polarizing hot button topics need to be rehashed in every thread. What am I talking about:

    * Cashman is the best/worst GM ever. Nope, neither. He's a pretty good GM, with a lot of cushion/cash.

    * CC is an ace/bum. He was an ace. Last year he was aweful. This year, he will probaby be in the middle.

    * Nova is a bun/best pitcher ever. More likely he will show he is a solid number 3 with a sub 4 ERA and 16-17 wins.

    * Solarte will win the batting crown/should be DFA'd. I'm betting he will either wind up being a solid starting IF or a great utility man.

    * Advanced stats are all that matters/irrelevant. Well, you know the drill.

    Just my Tuesday pontificating.

    Best,
    LL
    I give you an A for this post (LOL) Honestly, it was intelligent, insightful, most likely correct on all accounts and fun to read. I'll put a dollar on Solarte hitting above .280 for the year right now, with some pop....say 15 home runs.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeoYankee View Post
    Arod! Easily the most polarizing and I love it.

    Forums are meant to provide ones opinion, whether right, wrong or off the charts of reality.

    It's similar to fans at a game chanting Yankees Suck when we won a zillion rings. Of course we didn't suck, but they have the right to chant that. It's funny.

    Maybe if posters had more fun with it, instead of pretending sports are life or death.......then there would just be good natured fun ribbing of each others thoughts.

    Fatty. He stinks for the money. Lets face it. But he obviously doesn't stink cause he plays pro ball.

    Slappy. Love the guy. But he could be soooooooo much better. His instincts are comical. Bunting, stealing, throwing.

    Ace. The ace is the best pitcher on the team. Nova pitched 24 straight games without giving up more than 4 runs. He had the best record. The best era. So, until dethroned, he's been the best the last year. Plus, I love him. Hopefully, he's 5th best this year cause then we are damn good.

    Jake. Love that fkr. He's only been here two weeks. He's EASILY our best overall player.

    Cashman. He's hilarious. Love him too.

    Hal. Greatest guy in the league.

    Leo. Best looking poster in PSD history. True. Fact.

    The problem Leo, is that people present their "opinions" as fact when they are only opinions.. unless of course we are talking about you being the best looking poster in PSD history...That I'm sure is fact LOL

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by doorag View Post
    The problem Leo, is that people present their "opinions" as fact when they are only opinions.. unless of course we are talking about you being the best looking poster in PSD history...That I'm sure is fact LOL
    I always share my opinions, whether factual or not. Although, yes.....that part is indeed a fact.

    Here's another fact. Rain outs blow.
    Leo's Thought Of The Day



    BREAKING NEWS: Sources tell me it's official. We stink.

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