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  1. #1
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    The impact of Navarro?

    I honestly dont think any of us thought Navarro would have this kinda impact to start the season. Hes doing pretty darn good on both sides of the ball, even though hes sporting a .234 avg, hes still finding ways to get on base and gets the ball in play (sucks when its a dp). I dont mind the avg because he is doing just that, making contact with the baseball, not just striking out every at bat. Currently has 8 RBI and 4 Runs with get this.. 1SB! And guys, think, before we had JPA, we had John Buck, Bengie Molina, think we had the other molina, not sure.. but Toronto (in my opinion, in my Time of watching jays) has been a great place for a catcher to restart or excel (remember, before JPA, John Buck set the franchise mark of 20HR by a catcher) his career.

    His relationship with the pitching staff is simply amazing, hell, if Navarro can guide McGowan to 7 innings, get Buerhle to a 0.86 ERA and a 3-0 record, Morrow looked pretty good last two starts, Hutch is starting to get it together and I believe we have like 3 shutouts so far this year?! You dont score the game winning TD without the great QB and you dont throw a shutout (team combined) without a great pitch caller as a catcher.

    Simply put, im expecting Navarro to be a diamond in the rough for the franchise.
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  2. #2
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    Granted this is a small sample size, and who knows if it falls on Navarro or the starters, but right now the CS% is only 7% for the Jays, compared to 25% last year. 13 SBs against already.

  3. #3
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    Navarro has a 234/260/319 batting line. I'm not exactly sure why we're praising his bat. Believe it or not, last year JP had the same wRC+ (57) that Navarro has now.

    The pitching staff has been a bit of a surprise though. Very hit and miss, but overall they're doing well. We'll see if they keep it up.
    Last edited by Twitchy; 04-14-2014 at 01:09 PM.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  4. #4
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    Navarro's bat is nothing to be too excited about, and there's been passed balls and I'm not sure he could gun down Ortiz stealing 2nd.
    This is on the pitchers so far. They are staying healthier, which by this time last year we had lost 2, and they are just pitching better, some times erratic, but better! Not sure how much Navarro has to do with this, but he's 4m bucks, and we are getting just what we paid for!

  5. #5
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    Last year after 13 games : 74 runs against
    This year after 13 games: 47 runs against
    Kramer Champlin scared the "Devil" right out of the Tampa Bay Rays' team name.
    Kramer Champlin once struck out 27 batters in a game... using wiffle balls.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac4PM View Post
    Last year after 13 games : 74 runs against
    This year after 13 games: 47 runs against
    Good defense, good SP, good BP and a catcher who can call a game
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  7. #7
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    Well considering JP was the worst catcher I've ever seen in a full time role in my 30+ years following the Blue Jays, Navarro has been a massive upgrade. Some people still don't understand the impact of a proper catcher. I guess if you haven't played the sport competitvely it's hard to conceptualize. The catcher has a huge impact on the pitchers, and we're seeing that so far. Personally if he can hit at a league average for his position and at least keep runners honest, he brings enough in other aspects to be a very useful player and a starting MLB catcher.

    You won't run out of fingers adding up all the catchers in the league that can hit for average, power, get on base, block pitches well, throw people out and handle a pitching staff. That type of player is very rare and wins MVP awards. That shouldn't be the standard we're holding Navarro to. Saying he's not getting on base enough or throwing enough guys out is nitpicking when you consider the positive impact he's had on the staff. You can discredit it all you want, his impact has been palpable behind the plate and I would wager the pitching staff to a man would agree.

  8. #8
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    Good read on his repoire with Buehrle:

    http://www.bluejaysplus.com/dioner-n....pbDk5amS.dpbs

    http://www.rantsports.com/mlb/2014/0...-fan-favorite/

    Not saying this guy is all world, he's not, but he's had a very positive impact on the pitching staff so far. Let's hope it continues.

  9. #9
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    I don't really care how he hits. As long as the pitchers do well. A catcher has a huge role in a pitchers success.

    When a pitcher and catcher can communicate well, there's a trust that builds up between the two. For a guy like Buerhle who rarely calls off a catcher that's a big deal.

  10. #10
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    Navarro has struck out 1 time so far this year. He also might not be hitting tons but already he has 8 RBI's and even though some consider RBI's as a useless stat it's still a nice to see.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly Gruber View Post
    Well considering JP was the worst catcher I've ever seen in a full time role in my 30+ years following the Blue Jays, Navarro has been a massive upgrade. Some people still don't understand the impact of a proper catcher. I guess if you haven't played the sport competitvely it's hard to conceptualize. The catcher has a huge impact on the pitchers, and we're seeing that so far. Personally if he can hit at a league average for his position and at least keep runners honest, he brings enough in other aspects to be a very useful player and a starting MLB catcher.
    Just want to point out he's doing neither of those things, and is among the worst at his position currently for both hitting and keeping runners at 1B or throwing them out on SB attempts. I'm all for praising a guy when he's doing a good job, but he's certainly not doing either of those things at even an average or below average level. He's amongst the worst at the position for those two things.

    The pitchers are doing great, but how much of that is them being healthy vs the impact of Navarro is up for debate. Personally, I think Morrow/McGowan/Hutchinson being healthy is playing a far bigger role than Navarro replacing JPA. Is it possible Navarro has had a positive impact? Absolutely. But it's not the defining factor.

    You won't run out of fingers adding up all the catchers in the league that can hit for average, power, get on base, block pitches well, throw people out and handle a pitching staff. That type of player is very rare and wins MVP awards. That shouldn't be the standard we're holding Navarro to.
    Nobody here is. We're actually holding him to your standard, which is being an average hitter or showing an average arm behind the plate.

    Saying he's not getting on base enough or throwing enough guys out is nitpicking when you consider the positive impact he's had on the staff.
    Nitpicking is complaining about a 700 OPS when a guy has a 680 OPS. It's not nitpicking when Navarro ranks last among qualifying catchers in OPS.

    That's all. The 9th best qualifying catcher has a 729 OPS. Navarro is last with a 579 OPS. There's a fairly large difference. I wouldn't have brought up Navarro's lack of offence if he was around 100 points higher.

    You can discredit it all you want, his impact has been palpable behind the plate and I would wager the pitching staff to a man would agree.
    I'm sure the players would, but asking a player to evaluate other players is a poor example because most players don't know how to explain or analyse their production.

    Again, I'm not saying that Navarro hasn't had a positive impact on the pitching staff, just that maybe we should wait until he actually produces on the field before we celebrate his positive impact. Because right now, any gains he may have made on the pitching staff have been lost thanks to the fact he's been the worst hitting qualifying catcher in the majors.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twitchy View Post
    Navarro has a 234/260/319 batting line. I'm not exactly sure why we're praising his bat. Believe it or not, last year JP had the same wRC+ (57) that Navarro has now.

    The pitching staff has been a bit of a surprise though. Very hit and miss, but overall they're doing well. We'll see if they keep it up.
    Yeah but JP's best part of the year was the beginning, for the bat anyway then it all went downhill.

  13. #13
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    I agree Navarro helps our pitching staff, but I think we need a bigger sample size before we start talking runs against compared to last year having any sort of meaning. For example, last year they got blown out 13-0 against the red sox, and then went into Detroit and gave up 24 runs in 3 games to a solid Tigers lineup. Their first few series contained Cleveland (finished tied for 5th in runs scored in all of baseball), Boston (led the majors in runs scored) and Detroit (were second in the majors in runs scored). We started the year against 3 of the best offensive teams in all of baseball in 2013.

    This year the only elite offense (based off last years stats) we have played so far is Baltimore, and even they were missing one of their best hitters in Machado, and are near the bottom of baseball in runs scored so far this year. Minnesota is actually one of the hottest offenses to start the season, should be interesting to see how the pitching makes out in this next series...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac4PM View Post
    Last year after 13 games : 74 runs against
    This year after 13 games: 47 runs against
    Those are great stats but what the hell does that have to do with Navarro. We have 5 starters that have put some good games together rather than having 2 self destruct from last year. We have been far better defensively than last year and if you are trying to say Navarro somehow has saved us 27 runs against....how! He can't even throw out a runner.
    But he will do and is better than we had, so far!

  15. #15
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    I've been quietly impressed with the job Navarro has done thus far.

    As for having him hit into too many DPs, I think we'd be well served to bat him a little lower in the line-up once Lawrie gets going, and have Brett hit directly in front of Navarro. In this case, if Brett (who may be our best base stealing threat in the lower half of the line-up) gets on base, we can turn him loose. Let him try to steal 2nd base to avoid the double play any time he's on first and Navarro is up with less than 2 outs!

    Ideally you'd like to do this with a real burner (.. bonafacio.. hah) but it'd be something to think about.

    From a stats perspective, Navarro doesn't really ground into very many DPs to begin with only 9GDPs in his last 591 plate appearances.. but if you're worried about his wheels and groundball tendencies, it can't hurt to at least start a runner because he handles the bat well enough to protect them!

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