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  1. #1
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    Have we undervalued Dirk over the years? Where did Cuban go wrong with him and Nash?

    With Dirk moving up the Scoring Ranks, I've been thinking about the career the man has had, both on the court and with how hes been perceived. Was the whole "soft" label really justified? Could he and Nash, eventually, have won a title? Were they the best duo to never do so? Why do some people question Dirk's MVP season?


    I feel like people underrate those early Mavs teams, that if not for some unfortunate decisions/events, could have won it all. But people look back on them as if something was fundamentally flawed with the pairing of Dirk/Nash. That you could not win it all if those 2 were your pillars. I think Cuban messed up a good thing when he brought in Antoine Walker, a guy that hurts just about every team hes ever joined. That Dirk eventually won, helped shed doubt, but seems like some feel he only recently developed that will to win. It somewhat cheapens the legacy he should be leaving the NBA, as one of its best big game performers.

    What do you guys think of how Dirk has fared vs his peers over the years? KG, Duncan, Malone, C-Webb, Amare. This guy has gone h2h against the best to ever play the PF position and has more than held his own in the playoffs.
    Last edited by Chronz; 04-10-2014 at 05:31 PM.

    "It’s absolutely ludicrous” (to judge players based on whether they’ve won a title.)

  2. #2
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    Dirk has no doubt been underrated throughout his career. You never hear him spoken in the same sentence as Kobe, LBJ, Melo etc, but his stats speak for themselves. The dude is a beast.

    As far as winning a ring. I think a core of Nash-Dirk could have won a ring, but they never had the right pieces around them to make a legit run.
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  3. #3
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    Dirk is tougher now than earlier in his career, but Nash or no, Dirk needed a Tyson Chandler at full strength to get a ring.

  4. #4
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    cuban said that they didn't think nash's knee was gonna hold up so they didn't sign him to a new contract but that they obviously regretted it majorly.

  5. #5
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    The Finals MVP upped his perceived legacy quite a bit, but Dirk's a bonafide great and largely under-appreciated due to living in the shadow of more ESPN friendly players like Kobe, AI, etc. If they were an Eastern Conference team he'd have a stronger personal legacy, but losing to GS in round 1 with the leagues best record was a solid shot to his legacy at the time (in reality it was just a terrible matchup for them and one that a lot of GS fans saw coming based on their success against them that year).

    Easily one of my favorite players and personalities of all time though. Dirk's the man.

  6. #6
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    Dirk has the best playoff numbers of basically everyone listed at the power-forward position lol.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoahH View Post
    Dirk has no doubt been underrated throughout his career. You never hear him spoken in the same sentence as Kobe, LBJ, Melo etc, but his stats speak for themselves. The dude is a beast.

    As far as winning a ring. I think a core of Nash-Dirk could have won a ring, but they never had the right pieces around them to make a legit run.
    Well, he is obviously better than Melo so I am not sure what kind of people you are talking to.
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  8. #8
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    Dirk is a GREAT shooter... the only forward I would consider a better shooter is Bird. That said, he isn't a great rebound and he isn't a stellar defender.

    Cuban knew with Dirk's 'soft' style (I'm not sure I agree with 'soft'), he knew he'd need a bruiser in the paint, which is why he overpaid for so many $#!TTY centers.

    He let Nash and Finely go to sign big men because he knew he needed to. And he was right about that, he just picked the wrong guys. Once he got Chandler, he was set, but then he let Chandler go? WTF?!?!


    Finley, Nash and Dirk would have won multiple rings if they'd had Prince and Ben Wallace at SF and C. But big men that can defend and rebound are expensive, and with Fin, Nash and Dirk making what they deserved to make, it was hard to afford that C they needed.

    I think Dirk is ranked about where he should be. He's not as good as Garnett or Duncan, but he' better than everybody else at the power forward position, at least among his generation (Love, Griffin and Davis are the PFs of the future).

    Among all players, he's ranked at about the right spot: below Kobe Shaq, and LBJ, and ahead of other guys.
    Last edited by JasonJohnHorn; 04-10-2014 at 06:20 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJohnHorn View Post
    Dirk is a GREAT shooter... the only forward I would consider a better shooter is Bird. That said, he isn't a great rebound and he isn't a stellar defender.
    Never understood the notion of him being a bad rebounder.... Only recently has his rebounding #s dropped, he averaged around 8-9 rpg over his career, with a few being 9.9, 9.8, 9.7, etc.
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  10. #10
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    I think he gets undervalued in part because as good as he is he's only the 3rd best player at his position from his own era to the vast majority of people. He kind of gets overshadowed.


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greet View Post
    Never understood the notion of him being a bad rebounder.... Only recently has his rebounding #s dropped, he averaged around 8-9 rpg over his career, with a few being 9.9, 9.8, 9.7, etc.
    Aside from that, I feel like he doesn't get enough credit for his rebounding come playoff time. But yea, his rebounding is underrated overall, he shouldn't need to amass high OFFENSIVE rebounds because he plays so much on the perimeter, opening driving lanes/options for his teammates, and is still so efficient regardless. If you want to critique his Defensive rebounding, then I think hes still a very good rebounder on that end.

    "It’s absolutely ludicrous” (to judge players based on whether they’ve won a title.)

  12. #12
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    I think it's clear that Dallas didn't quite know what it was doing at the time when Nash left the team. They were paying $50 million to the likes of Antoine Walker and Antawn Jamison. Cuban was reluctant to sign Nash, since he wanted to build around Dirk (who is a great player, with a beautiful shot) and reasonably so. Nash went to the Suns.

    If you replace Jason Kidd with Steve Nash during the championship season, I think Dallas still wins the title. In retrospect, Dallas might've won more titles or done better in the playoffs had Nash stuck around (whereas Jamison, Finley, and Walker fizzled out) which would've been better than Nash playing amazing but winning zilch with the Suns.

    Cuban probably regrets losing Nash, but that's just how it goes.

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  13. #13
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    Dirk is one of the few players that I believe is properly rated.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnicksorBust View Post
    Dirk is one of the few players that I believe is properly rated.
    I agree. Now if he played like he did in the Finals on a more regular basis, he could be in the MVP race.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kobe4thewinbang View Post
    I agree. Now if he played like he did in the Finals on a more regular basis, he could be in the MVP race.
    ? He's been top 10 in the MVP race many times, including a few top 3's and an actual MVP...

    Or are you talking about this season pushing 36 years old?

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