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  1. #1
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    Defend Ryan Grigson

    I gave him the benefit of the doubt last off-season because of how solid his 2012 offseason (Draft/Free Agency) was. His 2013 FREE AGENCY/DRAFT ended up being a big bust, and I'm already pissed about his 2014 offseason.

    Can anyone convince me that he's actually doing a good job this year?

    I will admit that I'm in love with the Nicks pick up, but that's it. I like Arthur Jones too, but he had 34M to play with and he couldn't even fill our 2 biggest needs with that.
    So Anna, what do you think about the notion that Russell Wilson is better than Andrew Luck?

    <3
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    "Luck has the most diverse skill set of any NFL quarterback" - Ron Jaworski on Andrew Luck being a top 5 QB

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    Just imagine if he would of went after alshon jeffrey in the 2nd rd that year, and still picked up dwayne allen in the 3rd. that could have been the best draft ever.

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    Im not worried about safety cause there is some great talent in the draft. C still has me worried.

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    I'm not saying that the is doing a great job shoring up the spot opposite thomas and C...but I'm not ready to throw out the possibility of Holmes and Thornton being quality players either.

    I think Safety in a one deep scheme is a huge hole though. I question him not even giving Clemons' agent a call...which I would virtually guarantee is the fact after seeing what the Texans signed him for. In a 2 deep, you can throw a rookie in there and tell him to watch half the field on passing downs, but a one deep they better be able to read the offense and know where he will be needed, he better be able to read the difference between run and PA pass...and he better know when a TE is being covered by someone he can outrun...also has to have a good grasp on which CB will likely need help....I can't think of any excuse as to why we wouldn't have at least kicked the tires on a few FSs and seen the market is way low for quality guys.

    Getting Mack would have been extremely expensive and would have completely altered the wage scale of his position if we tried to sign him away from Cleveland...so I can't be mad at not going after him.

    I don't think we can call his draft and FA a complete bust last year.
    FA (I may be missing a few)
    -Toler was a safe sign...why he is still under contract is beyond me...but he did play well and we looked like a top 5 secondary before his string of missed games.
    -RJF is a little overpaid as I think he is going to be the 4th DL and backup to all 3 positions, but he was injured last year quite a bit, and I still think if healthy he is a great rotational DL.
    -DHB...we knew what we were getting: a physical freak with size and no hands on a prove it or leave deal...we all were excited about him redeeming himself here, but instead we got what we knew he was.
    -Walden gets a raw deal for being the blue collar guy that he is supposed to be...and actually gets better pressure than I thought he would.
    -Landry was a guy that I knew could be great if healthy, but I thought him and Bethea filled the same need and a CF type FS...so I would call Landry a bust last year, but might be OK if we get someone to play FS next to him.
    -Thomas had a freak injury...I liked the signing and hope the injury is just a one time thing.
    -Godser was along with AC the bright spots of our OL
    -Franklin - he was there and we needed a NT...wasn't expected to be an answer or anything past one year

    In the draft:
    -Werner was a project and confusing....I would have rather had Ogletree (move to ILB), Rhodes, Patterson, or Hunter....than a guy we were going to have to teach a position that we had just signed a guy to play opposite Mathis. That said I'm not ready to give up on Werner being a quality player...just not sure when he should get time.
    -Thornton and Holmes were pretty decent picks at the time. We needed OL that could backup multiple positions and they both had played multiple positions.
    -Boyett was a known injury risk, I guess he was pretty good when he played, but at least I thought he wouldn't.
    -Williams and Hughes made me wonder as neither seemed fantastic even where they were picked...not going to pretend I had someone I wanted in the 5th and 6th rounds over them though.
    -Cunningham was Mr Irrelevant...not expected to do anything
    -I think Rogers was a nice pickup when the Bills cut him.
    -We also picked Vontae Davis with our 2nd round pick


    Now after all that said and looking at his 2 full years + a half of an off season here, I think he is doing a decent job...not great, but not close to terrible. Now I will bump him overall from decent to good, because he has signed safe contracts. People look at the overall numbers that these players most likely won't see...the guaranteed money is the only thing we know they will. Yes Luck is the best prospect in however many years people want to say, but if we are signing big money contracts to players that were just playing for a contract (Like Washington did for so long) we are going to have a great QB with guys that are just going through the motions around him.

    This however is year 3...of a QB, of a coach, of a GM...this is when you see what mark they have had on the team and start to fairly evaluate them.
    -If Grigson's guys don't work like Holmes and Thornton, and we can't block up the middle, and the deep ball is there for opponents because a lack of a FS, then we should be in panic/off with his head mode, but not yet.
    -If Pagano can't get this team to play a consistent game maybe we should be looking at a change somehow and/or somewhere in the staff...coaches are tricky...especially if they aren't calling the offensive plays.
    -Pretty sure the QB doesn't need the year 3 evaluation as years 1 and 2 have spoken for themselves.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthollabak View Post
    I'm not saying that the is doing a great job shoring up the spot opposite thomas and C...but I'm not ready to throw out the possibility of Holmes and Thornton being quality players either.

    You're right, it's not fair to give up on Holmes/Thornton, but Grigson should have done a better job to bring in depth to provide insurance. Costa is not quality depth. Lance Louis is coming off major injuries. Not to mention Thomas is coming back from major surgery.

    I think Safety in a one deep scheme is a huge hole though. I question him not even giving Clemons' agent a call...which I would virtually guarantee is the fact after seeing what the Texans signed him for. In a 2 deep, you can throw a rookie in there and tell him to watch half the field on passing downs, but a one deep they better be able to read the offense and know where he will be needed, he better be able to read the difference between run and PA pass...and he better know when a TE is being covered by someone he can outrun...also has to have a good grasp on which CB will likely need help....I can't think of any excuse as to why we wouldn't have at least kicked the tires on a few FSs and seen the market is way low for quality guys.

    Yes, Safety is a big hole that Grigson has failed to address even though he had the resources available.

    Getting Mack would have been extremely expensive and would have completely altered the wage scale of his position if we tried to sign him away from Cleveland...so I can't be mad at not going after him.

    I'm past the Mack thing, but I'm not happy about what we're doing with C. Holmes is good, but I think it would have made a lot of sense to bring in Goodwin on a cheap 1-2 year stop gap contract which would allow for Holmes to get more practice time, and also he could provide depth at G.

    I don't think we can call his draft and FA a complete bust last year.
    FA (I may be missing a few)
    -Toler was a safe sign...why he is still under contract is beyond me...but he did play well and we looked like a top 5 secondary before his string of missed games.

    You call it a safe sign, yet he was injured a lot. He's one of the highest paid defensive players on the team and he isn't a lock to play 10 games... how is that 'safe?'
    -RJF is a little overpaid as I think he is going to be the 4th DL and backup to all 3 positions, but he was injured last year quite a bit, and I still think if healthy he is a great rotational DL.
    FAIR
    -DHB...we knew what we were getting: a physical freak with size and no hands on a prove it or leave deal...we all were excited about him redeeming himself here, but instead we got what we knew he was.

    Fair, it was a good signing at the time, that didn't pan out. Unfortunately GMs are graded on what happened and not what should have happened.
    -Walden gets a raw deal for being the blue collar guy that he is supposed to be...and actually gets better pressure than I thought he would.
    Ok, but is he worth the money?
    -Landry was a guy that I knew could be great if healthy, but I thought him and Bethea filled the same need and a CF type FS...so I would call Landry a bust last year, but might be OK if we get someone to play FS next to him.
    Again, is he worth the money?
    -Thomas had a freak injury...I liked the signing and hope the injury is just a one time thing.
    Good player, but Grigson knew he was injured coming into THIS SEASON and hasn't properly addressed depth at guard.
    -Godser was along with AC the bright spots of our OL
    Great signing, but again is he worth being the highest paid RT?
    -Franklin - he was there and we needed a NT...wasn't expected to be an answer or anything past one year
    He provided what he was supposed to.
    In the draft:
    -Werner was a project and confusing....I would have rather had Ogletree (move to ILB), Rhodes, Patterson, or Hunter....than a guy we were going to have to teach a position that we had just signed a guy to play opposite Mathis. That said I'm not ready to give up on Werner being a quality player...just not sure when he should get time.
    So you're admitting the 1st round pick was confusing... big red flag for Grigson.
    -Thornton and Holmes were pretty decent picks at the time. We needed OL that could backup multiple positions and they both had played multiple positions.
    I agree they were good picks, but again when players don't produce on the field it's a negative thing.
    -Boyett was a known injury risk, I guess he was pretty good when he played, but at least I thought he wouldn't.
    Another guy that didn't pan out.
    -Williams and Hughes made me wonder as neither seemed fantastic even where they were picked...not going to pretend I had someone I wanted in the 5th and 6th rounds over them though.
    True.
    -Cunningham was Mr Irrelevant...not expected to do anything
    -I think Rogers was a nice pickup when the Bills cut him.
    Yep.
    -We also picked Vontae Davis with our 2nd round pick
    And traded a 1st for a RB.


    Now after all that said and looking at his 2 full years + a half of an off season here, I think he is doing a decent job...not great, but not close to terrible. Now I will bump him overall from decent to good, because he has signed safe contracts. People look at the overall numbers that these players most likely won't see...the guaranteed money is the only thing we know they will. Yes Luck is the best prospect in however many years people want to say, but if we are signing big money contracts to players that were just playing for a contract (Like Washington did for so long) we are going to have a great QB with guys that are just going through the motions around him.

    That's fair. He is giving out good contracts, but it'd be nice to bring in more QUALITY PLAYERS.

    This however is year 3...of a QB, of a coach, of a GM...this is when you see what mark they have had on the team and start to fairly evaluate them.
    I've got the pitchforks out already.
    -If Grigson's guys don't work like Holmes and Thornton, and we can't block up the middle, and the deep ball is there for opponents because a lack of a FS, then we should be in panic/off with his head mode, but not yet.
    Considering Grigson has done nothing to address interior oline and safety, that's looking like a great possibilty.
    -If Pagano can't get this team to play a consistent game maybe we should be looking at a change somehow and/or somewhere in the staff...coaches are tricky...especially if they aren't calling the offensive plays.
    Don't get me started on Pagano...
    -Pretty sure the QB doesn't need the year 3 evaluation as years 1 and 2 have spoken for themselves.
    If anything he's a reason that magnifies Grigson's issues, IMO.
    My responses in BOLD.
    So Anna, what do you think about the notion that Russell Wilson is better than Andrew Luck?

    <3
    "[He's] a really complete player... There's not really any weaknesses to his game." - Bill Belichick on Andrew Luck
    "Luck has the most diverse skill set of any NFL quarterback" - Ron Jaworski on Andrew Luck being a top 5 QB

  6. #6
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    He completely overhauled a team in a two year time span. I think he's doing a pretty good job. He isn't going to be perfect, but look at other teams in the league and find 5 gms that have done a better job.
    [

  7. #7
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    What gets me is you guys have Madden-type expectations and when it doesn't happen you all freak out like it's the end of the world. Fire Grigson. Like Heyyo, said, Grigson has overhauled a team that lost 13 straight games into a back to back playoff team with a 2013 division title. Most teams are still trying to rebuild five, six, seven years later. Stop being so spoiled.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiants1213 View Post
    My responses in BOLD.
    Just a couple of things on the questions you asked. I just want to state first that I wasn't trying to just defend him. I wanted to give my view of his signs and picks from last year overall...not defend all of them.

    You're right, it's not fair to give up on Holmes/Thornton, but Grigson should have done a better job to bring in depth to provide insurance. Costa is not quality depth. Lance Louis is coming off major injuries. Not to mention Thomas is coming back from major surgery.

    Fair, it was a good signing at the time, that didn't pan out. Unfortunately GMs are graded on what happened and not what should have happened.
    Not trying to go after you here, but first you are saying it one way then the other. You can't project how they will play and bash on the OL then turn around and be negative with him picking up a calculated low risk high reward DHB late in the FA process. Basically you are setting yourself up to be disappointed in just about anything Grigson does in the off season.

    If we are going into the season with Holmes and Thornton, I'll admit I'm a little worried...however I'm willing to wait and see them with Thomas before attacking Grigson's judgement here.

    On the OL, Costa was graded out extremely well lining up at C...now I don't know much about Costa myself nor do I completely believe in PFF as an end all evaluation system, but that is what I have. I think he is insurance for the C spot and taking over for McGlynn and not Satele's replacement...he could probably earn the starting job, but that isn't the reason he was signed IMO....

    We also still have cash and time. Maybe they are actually waiting out the Mack situation. That doesn't pan out, maybe we convince Wharton to not retire with 3-4 m for one year at G, and grab De la Putena....who strangely is still out there, or maybe we coax Goodwin into a 1 year deal to mentor Holmes and/or buy us a year to let the Mack situation play out. I'm going to let this all play out before completely throwing in the towel on our interior line.

    You call it a safe sign, yet he was injured a lot. He's one of the highest paid defensive players on the team and he isn't a lock to play 10 games... how is that 'safe?'
    His contract was safe is what I was saying, especially when we saw what our secondary looked like when he was healthy...however I'm not sure why he is still on the team this year. So this is a push for me...good because the contract and savings we could get plus his talent, bad because we still have the contract on the books and an injury prone starer.

    So you're admitting the 1st round pick was confusing... big red flag for Grigson.
    Yes confusing in the terms of the entire off season. I see a lot of a Kruger type SAM in Werner, but I don't understand signing Walden along with that. The pick and the sign I think are both good players and moves, putting them together with Mathis on the roster is what is confusing. Maybe they had Bjorn high on their board and couldn't pass but didn't think he would fall so they went for Walden. Maybe they were worried about Mathis' production....I do think it was confusing to do them both, but Werner as a player I don't hate, and think in the next 2 years will develop nicely...the only problem is that we have to find ways to get him on the field. So good player, but better fit IMO at that pick....I'm in the middle here.

    On that same note, seeing the breakdown someone (sorry I forgot who) on Werner showed his relative production along side guys like Kruger and another OLB/DE that was signed...and dollar for dollar he produced just as good if not better than them. So we could have payed more and got a bigger name or payed what we did on a safe contract and got Werner who is very underrated, and does a lot of things that PFF doesn't tally (at least to my knowledge) like turning the run inside and the safety missing the tackle which someone pointed out on the Blount huge run against NE.

    Great signing, but again is he worth being the highest paid RT?
    Ahh Godser's contract. All we heard was highest paid RT....which is only a half truth that Irsay could use to say he shelled out the dollars. His contract really brakes down pretty well for us before he actually turns into the highest paid RT:

    He in 2013 and 2014 is/was on the books for a 3.9 million cap hit...well worth every penny and not even close to highest paid RT....he would be below most quality OL in terms of cap hits.

    2015 is the tipping point of his contract he makes like 6.9m with a 6m dead cap number if he is released, that number still doesn't make him the highest paid RT (cap hit wise) in 2015, as long as Doug Free and his 11m cap hit aren't released....so will he be worth 6.9 after this season...I don't know...will he be a top 5 RT? Maybe...but he would be #2 in pay in 2015 at RT with 2-5 being within 200k of each other in terms of counting against the cap...so this isn't grossly overpaying in FA since if you are getting a top 10 player at his position you usually have to pay him like a top 3-5 guy...so 2015 IMO will be fair market value for Godser as long as he is playing in the top 5 of RTs.

    2016 & 2017...Godser almost certainly will be overpaid at 9.9m for both and as of now the highest cap hit on the book for any RT. That said Grigson gave himself an out...if Godser is playing like a top 5 RT I won't be mad at 9.9....if he isn't, I think we will get our 5.9m (cut before 2016 season) 7.9m (cut before 2017 season) back and send him on his way.

    So the answer to that one was long and really drawn out.... but more or less comes to which year are you talking about.

    Yes, Safety is a big hole that Grigson has failed to address even though he had the resources available.
    This off-season isn't over. I said above I was extremely worried about this position and very disappointed as I think dollar for dollar what Clemons signed may be one of the best bargains this off season. But lets say we grab someone like Decoud or maybe a Nick Collins and/or that FS from Phi....maybe draft one as well. I was worried about the position when a 6th round rookie from Howard was starting in 06 too.

    Along with that goes the Landry sign....IMO a bad fit sign. If we had a FS that could play CF in Bethea, then I would have liked it...but we didn't and having basically a hybrid safety trying to play FS in a one deep scheme is going to suffer in coverage which we saw. Maybe Rhodes (high contract demands were more than his other questions I won't mention IMO) or Kenny Phillips may have been better options...maybe if we actually get a FS the Landry sign will look better...so here is to wishing.

    And traded a 1st for a RB.
    Ah yes, last but not least is the dreaded TRich trade. I agree completely with every bad thing said about him, he had a terrible season even with the reasons we both know I'm going to give....that said you can't take that terrible season completely out of context. He had no blocking inside and was given power run calls up the middle and they couldn't figure out his problems pointing to DB31 running for a 9 yard gain on 3rd and 15 on a draw play when the defense is in deep prevent zones.

    I remember seeing quite a few people wanting Eddie Lacey with our 1st in 2013. So we basically traded our first in 2014 for the same type of runner (and a better prospect even when we got him) who is actually a year younger and everyone wants to call it the worst trade ever. I was thrilled that we got a guy who just a year before was a legit top 5 talent (I'm not a fan of picking top 20 RBs ever, but his talent is/was there to be talent wise there) one year ago when we picked Luck. Again, I have no problems with people pointing out that the guy had a historically bad season....but the man was having to break tackles behind the line and getting terrible play calling along with that blocking....don't get me wrong, I'm not completely defending his season, more just explaining it....

    This is the one thing that I will defend Grigson every time. We gave up a late 1st rounder for a guy that was drafted #3 the year prior and on his rookie contract, it was a steal at the time...and I think will still turn out well with Chud in the mix and hopefully better blocking and playcalling.



    Yea I had some free time today.
    Last edited by matthollabak; 04-04-2014 at 01:46 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cardinals1226 View Post
    What gets me is you guys have Madden-type expectations and when it doesn't happen you all freak out like it's the end of the world. Fire Grigson. Like Heyyo, said, Grigson has overhauled a team that lost 13 straight games into a back to back playoff team with a 2013 division title. Most teams are still trying to rebuild five, six, seven years later. Stop being so spoiled.
    Andrew Luck masks a lot of Grigson and Pagano's flaws. I'm not going to give Grigson the benefit of the doubt when he hasn't done much to support Luck. I'm sorry I fear the direction of this team.
    So Anna, what do you think about the notion that Russell Wilson is better than Andrew Luck?

    <3
    "[He's] a really complete player... There's not really any weaknesses to his game." - Bill Belichick on Andrew Luck
    "Luck has the most diverse skill set of any NFL quarterback" - Ron Jaworski on Andrew Luck being a top 5 QB

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heyyo1900 View Post
    He completely overhauled a team in a two year time span. I think he's doing a pretty good job. He isn't going to be perfect, but look at other teams in the league and find 5 gms that have done a better job.
    Thompson, Newsome, Baalke, Schneider, Belichick (or whoever Pats GM is).
    So Anna, what do you think about the notion that Russell Wilson is better than Andrew Luck?

    <3
    "[He's] a really complete player... There's not really any weaknesses to his game." - Bill Belichick on Andrew Luck
    "Luck has the most diverse skill set of any NFL quarterback" - Ron Jaworski on Andrew Luck being a top 5 QB

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthollabak View Post
    Just a couple of things on the questions you asked. I just want to state first that I wasn't trying to just defend him. I wanted to give my view of his signs and picks from last year overall...not defend all of them.



    Not trying to go after you here, but first you are saying it one way then the other. You can't project how they will play and bash on the OL then turn around and be negative with him picking up a calculated low risk high reward DHB late in the FA process. Basically you are setting yourself up to be disappointed in just about anything Grigson does in the off season.

    If we are going into the season with Holmes and Thornton, I'll admit I'm a little worried...however I'm willing to wait and see them with Thomas before attacking Grigson's judgement here.
    I just wish Grigson would bring in more players because Thomas is coming off 2 major surgeries...

    On the OL, Costa was graded out extremely well lining up at C...now I don't know much about Costa myself nor do I completely believe in PFF as an end all evaluation system, but that is what I have. I think he is insurance for the C spot and taking over for McGlynn and not Satele's replacement...he could probably earn the starting job, but that isn't the reason he was signed IMO....
    Just don't understand why Grigson wanted him so badly... he was the first (and likely only) OL we signed.

    We also still have cash and time. Maybe they are actually waiting out the Mack situation. That doesn't pan out, maybe we convince Wharton to not retire with 3-4 m for one year at G, and grab De la Putena....who strangely is still out there, or maybe we coax Goodwin into a 1 year deal to mentor Holmes and/or buy us a year to let the Mack situation play out. I'm going to let this all play out before completely throwing in the towel on our interior line.
    That's fair, but Grigson hasn't exactly done anything to inspire confidence here..


    His contract was safe is what I was saying, especially when we saw what our secondary looked like when he was healthy...however I'm not sure why he is still on the team this year. So this is a push for me...good because the contract and savings we could get plus his talent, bad because we still have the contract on the books and an injury prone starer.
    He's still on the roster because Grigson (no GMs) like to admit mistakes... he cut Satele a year too late.


    Yes confusing in the terms of the entire off season. I see a lot of a Kruger type SAM in Werner, but I don't understand signing Walden along with that. The pick and the sign I think are both good players and moves, putting them together with Mathis on the roster is what is confusing. Maybe they had Bjorn high on their board and couldn't pass but didn't think he would fall so they went for Walden. Maybe they were worried about Mathis' production....I do think it was confusing to do them both, but Werner as a player I don't hate, and think in the next 2 years will develop nicely...the only problem is that we have to find ways to get him on the field. So good player, but better fit IMO at that pick....I'm in the middle here.
    Biggest concern is with lack of picks, Colts should be hitting on all of their high picks... they should be drafting sure-fire starters, not projects.

    On that same note, seeing the breakdown someone (sorry I forgot who) on Werner showed his relative production along side guys like Kruger and another OLB/DE that was signed...and dollar for dollar he produced just as good if not better than them. So we could have payed more and got a bigger name or payed what we did on a safe contract and got Werner who is very underrated, and does a lot of things that PFF doesn't tally (at least to my knowledge) like turning the run inside and the safety missing the tackle which someone pointed out on the Blount huge run against NE.



    Ahh Godser's contract. All we heard was highest paid RT....which is only a half truth that Irsay could use to say he shelled out the dollars. His contract really brakes down pretty well for us before he actually turns into the highest paid RT:

    He in 2013 and 2014 is/was on the books for a 3.9 million cap hit...well worth every penny and not even close to highest paid RT....he would be below most quality OL in terms of cap hits.

    2015 is the tipping point of his contract he makes like 6.9m with a 6m dead cap number if he is released, that number still doesn't make him the highest paid RT (cap hit wise) in 2015, as long as Doug Free and his 11m cap hit aren't released....so will he be worth 6.9 after this season...I don't know...will he be a top 5 RT? Maybe...but he would be #2 in pay in 2015 at RT with 2-5 being within 200k of each other in terms of counting against the cap...so this isn't grossly overpaying in FA since if you are getting a top 10 player at his position you usually have to pay him like a top 3-5 guy...so 2015 IMO will be fair market value for Godser as long as he is playing in the top 5 of RTs.
    Good point.

    2016 & 2017...Godser almost certainly will be overpaid at 9.9m for both and as of now the highest cap hit on the book for any RT. That said Grigson gave himself an out...if Godser is playing like a top 5 RT I won't be mad at 9.9....if he isn't, I think we will get our 5.9m (cut before 2016 season) 7.9m (cut before 2017 season) back and send him on his way.
    So you have no problem giving Cherilus 9.9M but you do have a problem giving Mack 10M? Mack would make a bigger impact IMO.

    So the answer to that one was long and really drawn out.... but more or less comes to which year are you talking about.



    This off-season isn't over. I said above I was extremely worried about this position and very disappointed as I think dollar for dollar what Clemons signed may be one of the best bargains this off season. But lets say we grab someone like Decoud or maybe a Nick Collins and/or that FS from Phi....maybe draft one as well. I was worried about the position when a 6th round rookie from Howard was starting in 06 too.

    Along with that goes the Landry sign....IMO a bad fit sign. If we had a FS that could play CF in Bethea, then I would have liked it...but we didn't and having basically a hybrid safety trying to play FS in a one deep scheme is going to suffer in coverage which we saw. Maybe Rhodes (high contract demands were more than his other questions I won't mention IMO) or Kenny Phillips may have been better options...maybe if we actually get a FS the Landry sign will look better...so here is to wishing.
    That's the issue. Landry's play is solely dependent on what the Colts do at FS. Grigson showed poor judgement here.



    Ah yes, last but not least is the dreaded TRich trade. I agree completely with every bad thing said about him, he had a terrible season even with the reasons we both know I'm going to give....that said you can't take that terrible season completely out of context. He had no blocking inside and was given power run calls up the middle and they couldn't figure out his problems pointing to DB31 running for a 9 yard gain on 3rd and 15 on a draw play when the defense is in deep prevent zones.
    Knowing those issues, it made trading a 1st round pick for him even more confusing.
    I remember seeing quite a few people wanting Eddie Lacey with our 1st in 2013. So we basically traded our first in 2014 for the same type of runner (and a better prospect even when we got him) who is actually a year younger and everyone wants to call it the worst trade ever. I was thrilled that we got a guy who just a year before was a legit top 5 talent (I'm not a fan of picking top 20 RBs ever, but his talent is/was there to be talent wise there) one year ago when we picked Luck. Again, I have no problems with people pointing out that the guy had a historically bad season....but the man was having to break tackles behind the line and getting terrible play calling along with that blocking....don't get me wrong, I'm not completely defending his season, more just explaining it....
    This goes back to the very first issue. Since Trich is only as good as his Oline, how come Grigson hasn't done **** to address it?

    This is the one thing that I will defend Grigson every time. We gave up a late 1st rounder for a guy that was drafted #3 the year prior and on his rookie contract, it was a steal at the time...and I think will still turn out well with Chud in the mix and hopefully better blocking and playcalling.
    Just because he was drafted 3rd overall doesn't mean he deserved to be. Not a good enough reason to justify the deal. Why do you think there will be better blocking?



    Yea I had some free time today.
    Replies in BOLD.
    So Anna, what do you think about the notion that Russell Wilson is better than Andrew Luck?

    <3
    "[He's] a really complete player... There's not really any weaknesses to his game." - Bill Belichick on Andrew Luck
    "Luck has the most diverse skill set of any NFL quarterback" - Ron Jaworski on Andrew Luck being a top 5 QB

  12. #12
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    I like to reply to the thread, but I have to paraphrase Shakespeare:

    "I come not to praise Grigson, but to bury him"......

    There is a gigantic myth out there that Grigson has done a good job both in FA and the draft. Sorry, but I disagree.

    His first draft consisted essentially of 4 slam dunks in the first 4 rounds, and then NOTHING after that. Picking Luck, Fleener, Allen and Hilton were gimme picks, they weren't some episode of genius. It's like he got 4 mulligans in the first 4 rounds. That's ASSUMING Fleener Allen and Hilton continue to develop, but I think that's a given.

    His second draft consisted of ....well......nothing. Now maybe some of those guys pan out, but to date it's a big fat ZERO.

    FA? Color me unimpressed. As I , and many others said last year, he overpaid for bargain basement crap, and that's pretty much what most of those guys played like.

    This year? Again, color me unimpressed. I like the Jones signing, and I like Hicks, but he could turn out to be another fail as well. Other than that, Grigson completely has failed to address team needs. WR really wasnt' a NEED with Allen and Reggie coming back, regardless of how well Reggie does. We have other guys who started to develop at the end of the year and would have been just fine even with no Reggie and no Hicks.


    The Colts have succeeded on offense almost exclusively due to Luck, and the very liimited success they've had on defense is attributable almost exclusively to Mathis. Remove those two and I don't know if the Colts win a game.


    Now I read today that another castoff stumblebum from Philly is probably going to be signed. Great. More wasted money on another bargain basement asshat.

    Brilliant. Keep going Grigson, you're MO seems to be sign as many crappy players as you can with the hope that SOMEBODY pans out and you can tout your horn as some genius who saw value where nobody else did. Meanwhile, I'll just keep charting your fails......
    Last edited by TheVicster; 04-04-2014 at 02:50 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiants1213 View Post
    Thompson, Newsome, Baalke, Schneider, Belichick (or whoever Pats GM is).
    Ozzie Newsome took over a team that knew it was being uprooted after the 95 season to Baltimore and partially because of that went from 11-5 in 94 to 5-11 in 95. Compare the 1996 Newsome Draft which he got Lewis and Ogden with the 2012 Luck, TY, Allen, Fleener, Ballard, draft and I'll take ours. The 2nd draft of the 2 we are looking at Newsome getting Priest Holmes undrafted, (compare to DaRick) and of note he only got Peter Bolware....and I guess Jamie Sharper was pretty good, but don't recognize many more names...but he also held the #4 pick to get Bolware so we are already ahead of Newsome at year 3 being a 2x playoff team.

    Baalke was the western region scout in 05 when Alex Smith was taken over Rodgers....just wanted to lead with that. He did a great no brainer move in hiring Harbaugh to replace Singletary to turn the talent that York before him had gathered. A lot of the guys on that team in 2010 were the same guys in 2011 when Baalke was promoted, and quite a few of them are now the top players on the roster like Willis, Gore (when healthy), Vernon Davis, Crabtree, ....yes he drafted Collin K who honestly some of us were talking about as a potential draft and stash guy for post Peyton....honestly Baalke hasn't done much other than bring in a few guys and Harbaugh has coached the guys that went 6-10. If we had been getting top 10 picks for the past few years before Grigson and had a stacked young roster with all pros like Willis on it...then Baalke probably could have gotten us over the hump.

    I'm just going to say....do you honestly think recently they have surrounded Tom Brady with the pieces he needs to succeed, or have they slowly been letting them go and Brady has kept them alive much like our situation? They are going to be a good team with Brady every year....but I haven't seen greatness as a roster in NE for quite a while. You are sying they are one of the blueprints....but they keep letting players go now, and yea they made some pretty smooth moves for a while in grabbing Moss and Welker for nothing, but just like with Luck keeping us in the playoffs....Brady did that for them for a long time. I guess you could make the argument for the NE GM as having a better start than Grigson, but I'm not sure when or who you are talking about to break down....but Belechick (who you did mention by name) didn't do so hot in Cleveland as the coach and I'm guessing they are wishing they were a little more patient and realized that the 5-11 record in his last year probably had just as much, if not more to do with the move than the coach in 95. Belechick coaching Ray Lewis and Ed Reed....IMO his system would have made Baltimore a much better team on offense as we have seen guys like Cassel be world beaters in it. I could see that being an all time team.

    That brings us to Ted Thompson.....the guy that turned a 10-6 team into a 6-10 team his first year and with the same coach and QB. Good move drafting Rogers...I could have told you that at the time as he was neck and neck with Alex Smith for the #1 and fell to number 24 so this was about as savy of a move as hiring Harbaugh....but lets give him credit for that one anyway. So year one was horrible for Thompson. Year 2 we are looking at an 8-8 season still with Favre but had fired Sherman....year 3 they finally made it 13-3 great things to come with Favre on his way out and Rodgers looking like a pro in relief. Year 4...we are looking at a QB and culture change...6-10. So first 4 years Thompson had 1 playoff appearance with a HOF QB to start with that still had some play left in him....Grigson came to a team that had just been gutted and had no space and here we are on a 2 year playoff streak.
    Last edited by matthollabak; 04-04-2014 at 03:15 PM.

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    I'm not judging them based on their whole body of work, just what they've done recently. So you talking about 1995 means nothing to me.

    Looks like this defends my stance: http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nf...-nfls-best-gms

    all of the people i named ended up being on that list 1-5!!!!!! Yet, you're going to tell me you think Grigson is doing better than them?
    So Anna, what do you think about the notion that Russell Wilson is better than Andrew Luck?

    <3
    "[He's] a really complete player... There's not really any weaknesses to his game." - Bill Belichick on Andrew Luck
    "Luck has the most diverse skill set of any NFL quarterback" - Ron Jaworski on Andrew Luck being a top 5 QB

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiants1213 View Post
    I'm not judging them based on their whole body of work, just what they've done recently. So you talking about 1995 means nothing to me.

    Looks like this defends my stance: http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nf...-nfls-best-gms

    all of the people i named ended up being on that list 1-5!!!!!! Yet, you're going to tell me you think Grigson is doing better than them?

    The reason I'm talking about 95 here is to prove that if we were to judge the top 5 GMs in the game right now and decide to hire or fire them based off 2 years and one off season on the job...probably all but Baalke would be with another team, and Belechick was actually fired from his first job and that was for having a bad season with a team that was about to be moved and become an expansion team.

    This is Ryan Grigson year 3....comparing Ryan Grigson in year 3 to any of these guys is like comparing Andrew Luck's career numbers to Peyton's. The reason I went back to these GM's start is because these guys weren't tossing out super bowl winners, contenders, or even playoff teams in most cases day one....they struggled, they built their teams, they found their guys.

    Again I'm not singing Grigson's praises and saying he poops rainbows and everything he touches turns gold, but I am saying that GMs ranked 1-5 didn't come to a team that had just been gutted and draft a rookie QB and head to the playoffs like Grigson has. I also am flat out telling you that isn't all Grigson's choices, Luck was Irsay's pick....If I had to guess I would say he had little to no say that meant anything in that pick. So he is still proving himself and hasn't shown if he is going to be great or if he is not.....but again what would the NFL currently look like if Baltimore had kept Belechick? I think we would be talking about at least 3-4 more rings for Baltimore than he has gotten with NE.

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