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Thread: Lost season

  1. #1
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    Lost season

    As this season comes to an end, what positives and negatives do you take away from it?? What do you hope for the future??

    For me...

    Positives: The young guys. Kelly, Sully Chris and BRAD all proving the belong in the NBA.

    Negatives: Jeff Green, proved all his "haters" right. He's not capable of being a top option on a team and needs to play with more heart.(no pun intended)

    With all our draft picks and some players increasing and solidifying their value in the league our future looks bright. A lot of options for us this offseason. Do we trade continue to rebuild? Do we make small trades to speed it up a little?? Do we make a huge splash??

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    Interesting question. I have been considering this, albeit from a slightly different perspective, for the last month or so.

    One thing that has impressed me is the number of players (current and past) from this season who have had such good things to say about the franchise and expressed a desire to stay here even amidst all the losing. Crawford, Bayless, Humphries as examples. This has intrigued me on many levels, but especially in consideration that most of the roster will not be here past the summer of 2015.

    Who are the survivors?

    Which current players will constitute the core of the future Celtics?

    Approaching this as I think DAnny is and not necessarily as I might there seems to be 2-4 players in the mix. Olynyk and Sullinger could remain. They are young progressing players, neither of whom has reached their peak. Rondo and / or Bradley could also remain. I do not believe both will be here in 2015 and perhaps neither will be simply from a financial standpoint. Neither is worth the money they could potentially command as free agents. Signing both for the money they could command would financially hamstring the franchise. Rondo has a better chance of sticking, imo because he is the star attraction that could help entice free agents to Boston. A lot of players would love to be on the receiving end of those assists.

    The kids - Johnson, Faverani, Iverson, Pressey... any of them could stick or all of them could be gone. Unlikely any are more than a 3rd stringer on a good 15 man roster, but each does hold value for their particular specialty skill that they bring.

    What I think should happen is this: Based on what appears to be the favored starting line up this season - Rondo, Bradley, Green, Bass and Humphries - only Rondo remains with the team.

    Bradley, Green, Bass and Humphries - any one of them is capable of starting on a good NBA team but collectively or in any combination they cannot be starters on a good NBA team. They are all fifth starters or very good role players off the bench on a good team. Rondo is the only legitimate starter the Celtics have that they could build around.

    I believe Olynyk and Sullinger will get the opportunity to demonstrate they can be legitimate starters next season hedging only because of the impending draft. I am not convinced both Olynyk and Sullinger will be part of the core (starting 5) going forward. There must be an allowance made for a rim protector and that pushes one of these two out of the equation.

    That's it. Three players with the possibility to be a significant part of the future Celtics. DAnny has to acquire 3 legitimate NBA starters including #1 and #2 scoring options. One of those could be a rim protector as well or he has to find one of those too.
    Last edited by Opalmerr; 04-01-2014 at 08:57 AM.
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI • 14m •  More
    SI: Statistics suggest Joel Embiid will fully recover from foot surgery. But it could be 9-12 months before he plays http://bit.ly/1qwZuIB

  3. #3
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    The biggest disappointment is Jeff Green and is not even close for me ,also Bradley is not in my preferences anymore .

    Positives : Brad,KO,Sully,Johnson,Faverani.
    Basketball is like war in that offensive weapons are developed first, and it always takes a while for the defense to catch up.


    Red Auerbach

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    Quote Originally Posted by leprechaun5 View Post
    The biggest disappointment is Jeff Green and is not even close for me ,also Bradley is not in my preferences anymore .

    Positives : Brad,KO,Sully,Johnson,Faverani.
    Yes Green is the personification of inconsistent. But Bradley? His health is a question.. but his fg is up, 3point fg is up, points are way up, he's a much more confident player, and his on ball defense is among the best in the league. Did he just lose that new player glow?

  5. #5
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    LOST season........hmmm, IDK about that. You guys may look at this like the glass is half empty, I look at it like its half full! Imo this is pretty much exactly what we needed to happen this season.

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    I haven't found Green to be a disappointment because he played exactly how I expected him to play. He compliments a star player extremely well. He isn't the star himself. He isn't paid like a star player, just a very good player. I expect consistency to come when he is in the right situation. Right now he isn't, especially with Rondo out the majority of the year.

    Positives: We lost games, but competed extremely well in a large majority of them with our young talent and really guys who wouldn't normally play big minutes yet. We played much better than our record indicates, but yet are still near the draft position we wanted (as of now). Brad Stevens showed he can be an NBA coach in this league and should only improve as talent improves.

    Negatives: One: Individually I have really like the growth of two of our better young players, Sully and KO, but they don't have a bright future together IMO. Neither protect the rim, so I don't know how you build around both. One has to become more of a role player, or one needs to be moved. Two: Bradley's health: I like the Bradley we see on the floor with Rondo, but can he ever stay healthy to rely on him. Injuries are mounting up.

    Adding a 3rd Element:

    Not a negative really but as happy as I am for how we look to be landing in the draft, concerned unless we fall in top 3 of draft that who we draft doesn't create logjam at an existing position. Basically unless we land in top 3, trades of existing players will be necessary to really improve, so like or not like current players trading a Sully or KO or letting a Bradley walk will probably be forced by our draft position unless Danny uses the draft assets as the trade bait. Top 3 is ideal. Outside of top 3 will create a lot of roster question marks. Randle, Smart, Exum, Harris, etc., all fit where current young talent sits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C-Webb View Post
    I haven't found Green to be a disappointment because he played exactly how I expected him to play. He compliments a star player extremely well. He isn't the star himself. He isn't paid like a star player, just a very good player. I expect consistency to come when he is in the right situation. Right now he isn't, especially with Rondo out the majority of the year.
    Couldn't agree more with ^ this.

    The rest of your post is very good as well. It's just refreshing to see an astute evaluation of Green. So many hold unrealistic expectations of / for him. He's a very good player. Not a star. Possibly slightly overpaid, but 90% of the league is overpaid.
    Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI • 14m •  More
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    Positives - Olynyk, Sullinger, Humphries, Brad Stevens.... Crawford and Lee trades.... Good position for a top 5 pick... Seems like Management and ownership has a vision moving forward and committed to a quick rebuild

    Negatives - Bradley's injuries, Jeff Green's play, inability to unload Rondo, too many wins in the beginning of the season

    Incomplete - Rondo's recovery
    UNC players with NBA Rings - 14

    Duke players with NBA Rings - 3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mishmin View Post
    Yes Green is the personification of inconsistent. But Bradley? His health is a question.. but his fg is up, 3point fg is up, points are way up, he's a much more confident player, and his on ball defense is among the best in the league. Did he just lose that new player glow?
    His health for sure ,and bradley to is very inconsistent ,i don't like his shot selections at all and i don't want to pay him not even 6 mil per year .
    Basketball is like war in that offensive weapons are developed first, and it always takes a while for the defense to catch up.


    Red Auerbach

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mishmin View Post
    Yes Green is the personification of inconsistent. But Bradley? His health is a question.. but his fg is up, 3point fg is up, points are way up, he's a much more confident player, and his on ball defense is among the best in the league. Did he just lose that new player glow?
    Points are up? Last year his TS% was .461, nice uptick this year to .497, but look at 2 years ago - .555 - so he's WAY down this year from that year.

    His offense is below average for a NBA SG, his PER is meh. His D is real good, but, I think he went down from last year. He's still missing games due to injuries.

    He's a terrific defensive guard, but as a 3rd guard he doesn't cut it at point on offense - at all. So that means he's either a starting SG or a bench SG - who can cover the PG if he's hard to cover. That sounds like an excellent 8th guy on a serious team. On this this team he's a 3rd option, and you're going to lose a lot of games with a team like that. Under no circumstances pay this guy big dollars.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 04-01-2014 at 11:02 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Points are up? Last year his TS% was .461, nice uptick this year to .497, but look at 2 years ago - .555 - so he's WAY down this year from that year.

    His offense is below average for a NBA SG, his PER is meh. His D is real good, but, I think he went down from last year. He's still missing games due to injuries.

    He's a terrific defensive guard, but as a 3rd guard he doesn't cut it at point on offense - at all. So that means he's either a starting SG or a bench SG - who can cover the PG if he's hard to cover. That sounds like an excellent 8th guy on a serious team. On this this team he's what a 3rd guard, and you're going to lose a lot of games with a team like that. Under no circumstances pay this guy big dollars.
    As far as stats from two years ago, It's true his ts% was higher, but his game was very different. He was getting all his points from back cuts to the basket, and he rarely shot from outside, much less off the dribble. First half of that year in 2011-12, he was 1 for 12 from 3pt.. He raised up all the percentages after the all-star break, yes, but he still only took 55 threes the whole year. He's taken 3 times as many this year even with all the injuries.. The point being, he's expected to carry a lot more offensive load for the first time in his career, and although he hasn't kept his ts% up at .555, he's still at just about .500, which is very strong i feel. When I look at him this year, I see where he put work into weaknesses in his game. I don't have any reason to doubt that he will continue to work on his game too.

    When it comes to money, yes I'm not saying we should pay him starting 2 guard dollars, but due to all the injuries, I don't think he'll be asking for a big contract. If we can keep him for cheap, I say hold a guy who makes everyone work harder.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mishmin View Post
    As far as stats from two years ago, It's true his ts% was higher, but his game was very different. He was getting all his points from back cuts to the basket, and he rarely shot from outside, much less off the dribble. First half of that year in 2011-12, he was 1 for 12 from 3pt.. He raised up all the percentages after the all-star break, yes, but he still only took 55 threes the whole year. He's taken 3 times as many this year even with all the injuries.. The point being, he's expected to carry a lot more offensive load for the first time in his career, and although he hasn't kept his ts% up at .555, he's still at just about .500, which is very strong i feel. When I look at him this year, I see where he put work into weaknesses in his game. I don't have any reason to doubt that he will continue to work on his game too.

    When it comes to money, yes I'm not saying we should pay him starting 2 guard dollars, but due to all the injuries, I don't think he'll be asking for a big contract. If we can keep him for cheap, I say hold a guy who makes everyone work harder.
    Good points. But he's still at best an average SG offensively. I mean NBA average for all SG's not just starters

    I'd like him too, but feel he'll get a better offer elsewhere.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 04-01-2014 at 11:04 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

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    Bradley to me is the type of player that's really only valuable to a contender. I don't see other teams blowing their cap space on a guy like Avery Bradley. Because of that, I don't think he's going to get much more than MLE type offers since most contenders are over the cap. At MLE type money, BOS might very well match and I don't think that's outrageous. Either way, the other team has to have their MLE tied up for a week while we decide if we match. If Danny plays it coy on Bradley I think he can scare teams off from offering him a contract out of fear their backup plan signs elsewhere in the next week and then BOS decides to match - they'd be stuck with nothing. I really see us getting Bradley back for one more year on his RFA tender. By the that one year deal is done we might actually be in position to re-sign him and keep him in the backup role he belongs in.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Haha View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugepatsfan View Post
    Bradley to me is the type of player that's really only valuable to a contender. I don't see other teams blowing their cap space on a guy like Avery Bradley. Because of that, I don't think he's going to get much more than MLE type offers since most contenders are over the cap. At MLE type money, BOS might very well match and I don't think that's outrageous. Either way, the other team has to have their MLE tied up for a week while we decide if we match. If Danny plays it coy on Bradley I think he can scare teams off from offering him a contract out of fear their backup plan signs elsewhere in the next week and then BOS decides to match - they'd be stuck with nothing. I really see us getting Bradley back for one more year on his RFA tender. By the that one year deal is done we might actually be in position to re-sign him and keep him in the backup role he belongs in.
    they changed that to 3 days with the new CBA

    "The player's current club has three days to match the offer or loses the player to the new team; the CBA prior to 2011 allowed seven days."

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    Bradley should be in the Sefolosa/Allen price range. Sefolosha makes 3.3, Allen makes 3.15.

    Bradley's age will heighten that a bit. I'd take him back for 4-5 per year considering how hard it is to get quality talent to sign in Boston.

    I view him as a legitimate cog in a title team. He's such a great defender and he's settling in offensively with an extended role.

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