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Thread: Logan to S?

  1. #1
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    Logan to S?

    http://bostonherald.com/sports/patri...ryan_at_safety

    My idea is slightly different.

    McCourty at starting S. Ryan at S on passing packages. Harmon as S on rushing packages. McCourty getting a blow every now and then on rushing packages with Ryan in.

    We got our outside CB's, our slot, and a good back-up CB in Dennard in this configuration - good enough we can take the starters off the field every now and then to stay fresh.

    A young ball hawking CB with some holes in his game at CB might make an excellent S.

    If that's the plan, forget drafting a S high. Back to DE, DT, TE, OT as the candidates.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  2. #2
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    It makes sense by way of getting your best players on the field. There seems to be a bit of a logjam at CB. Not that that's a bad thing, but if your sitting Ryan/Dennard in favor of Harmon or another S, one of your better (or at least potentially better) secondary players is riding the pine.


    Can Ryan be a "gregory" type of SS, that reacts quickly down hill and can make open field tackles (when he was healthy at least)? I think he can. If he can, this makes a little more sense. McCourty as the over the top, shading away from Revis, with Ryan cheating downhill.

  3. #3
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    I actually suggested last training camp that Ryan could potentially be an option at FS. I never saw him as a starter or even a regular depth piece there though. More like an emergency 3rd string FS. I don't like McCourty at SS either. I want him as a deep center-fielder at FS. That's what I think he's built for.

    The coaching staff obviously has a better idea of the skill sets of our players and know a lot more football than me so if this is the route they choose to go I'll obviously trust their judgement. But personally, I don't really like the idea. At least not as a starting defense. Week to week there might be some matchups where this makes sense.


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  4. #4
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    Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard 2h

    Not a fan of it RT @epaulson89: Herald reported today Pats may try Ryan at FS & move McCourty to SS. What do you think of this?
    Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard 1h

    I would say it's more likely Patriots use Ryan as a third safety for passing downs. That was sort of the original plan with Gregory
    Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard 1h

    Yes "@plasticpatriot: @GregABedard Could you see ryan as a success in a robber role? Certainly has more quicks than gregory."
    Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko 2h

    The idea to more Logan Ryan to FS and McCourty to SS is crazy to me. Ryan shows great potential at CB.. McCourty is a finesse Safety
    Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko 2h

    And then it goes back to the question if you have to more Ryan to Safety, what is even the point of using a 3rd round pick on Harmon?
    Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko 2h

    It's already an admission that Tavon Wilson is garbage..which we all knew the minute they picked him.. just get a veteran.
    Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko 2h

    Moving Ryan has a trickle down effect and forces two players to play new positions. Takes away McCourty's best skill, which is even more..[1/2]
    Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko 2h

    valuable with Revis and Browner.. that is his range.[2/2]
    Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko 48m

    I'd told there is defnitely validity to @kguregian article about moving Logan Ryan to FS. Bill Belichick really likes him there.
    Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko 43m

    The concept of Strong Safety and Free Safety is "dying".. Patriots moving to use more two FS looks accoring to people who know
    Mike Loyko ‏@NEPD_Loyko 41m

    Patriots fans waiting around for a Kam Chancellor type Strong Safety.. it's just not going to happen.
    I wondered this the other day about Kyle, Alfonzo or Logan playing S. I remember HPF mentioning it awhile back too. I'm glad Bill is trying to get his talent off the bench and on the field. There will be times when Arrington, Dennard and Ryan are on the bench, too much talent not playing.

  5. #5
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    I would hesitate moving McCourty off of FS where he has been so good but otherwise id be on board with this plan.

    Bags, do you see Harmon as a significantly better run defender last year? I thought Ryan tackled fairly well in the open field last year, just inquiring about the split you propose above.

    I hope this steers us away from picking a DB within the first three rounds this year. we have much bigger fish to fry and its time to see what we have with the Rutgers tandem.

  6. #6
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    No way McCourty is made into a SS - it's not him. Besides as I wrote 2-3 years ago the Pats are going to two FS on passing plays, and the SS whoever it is will be a package player on field maybe 25 times a game. I think Harmon can handle that. I think Ryan can handle 50 snaps at FS, and if he can't - then they can bring Gregory (or someone else) back at the min to battle over that slot. If Ryan loses he plays back up CB and S and ST, and is in position to take a bigger role next year when the vet S and Revis might be gone.

    As for Harmon, he's bigger and a bit slower than Ryan, but knows the position better. I just think neither is good enough to be on the field 90% of the time so by splitting them they can concentrate on a smaller role and stay fresh.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  7. #7
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    Is this McCourty insurance in case he prices himself out of returning next season? Or BB potentially giving Revis the nod over McCourty if he could only choose one to extend?

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    I can see this when we play two deep safeties formations, so we would essentially have 2 FS on those plays.

    However, I can't see either Ryan or McCourty playing an in-the-box SS role, I'm still advocating Browner for that. McCourty at FS and Ryan at CB is where they are best suited.

    Harmon would play SS in base formations, Ryan in Cover-2 nickel situations and Browner plays in-the-box, elephant role Adrian Wilson would have played in 3 CB, 1 high S formations.

    For example, against Broncos, we'd have Revis on DT, Arrington on Welker, Dennard/Ryan on Sanders, McCourty at FS and Browner in box against JT.

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    On passing downs? Sure. Help out with over the top coverage on 3rd and long sounds great. Ryan + McCourty at the safeties with Revis + Browner + Dennard + Arrington is the best nickle and dime pass coverage in the league. Toss in Collins and Mayo, our pass coverage should be good this year.

    To be able to have two former corners start at both safeties would be huge for the team, hopefully Ryan steps up and plays well at S then we can let McCourty walk at the end of the season if he wants Byrd money and Ryan can start at FS in '15 potentially.

    Some good camp preseason competition for McCourty and Harmon? Really hope we can keep McCourty for a decent deal. He is a leader, good teammate, and a patriot way type player he's not getting overpaid here though and this could be good insurance.
    Last edited by Patriot Pride; 03-27-2014 at 01:35 PM.

  10. #10
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    2 safeties under 6 foot and 200 pounds? Yeah no thanks.

    I really don't understand why everyone is so against Harmon starting

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sportfan View Post
    2 safeties under 6 foot and 200 pounds? Yeah no thanks.

    I really don't understand why everyone is so against Harmon starting
    Well, I see Harmon as an in the box safety, so I don't want him starting except on the package that needs to have such a S. I like that idea 600% more than the one floated in the article - making McCourty a SS - that's garbage. I'd rather Logan (he'd be fresh), or get a coverage LB that is nearly as fast a S. McCourty has shoulder issues, he gets hit by too many G's, T's, FB's, TE's, and C's, he's going IR - and we need him.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  12. #12
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    Whoever ends up as the SS is going to have it waaaaaay easier than Gregory did. They are going to be the 4th in a back 4 with 2 lock down corners 1 of which is the best in the league and McCourty a 2 time pro bowler at 2 positions. We gained size Browner is bigger than Talib and Revis is bigger than Dennard.

    We will have Mayo back and calling the D and Hightower and Collins will have another year under their belts.

    Front 4 will be much better than the end of the season last year. They will have enough depth to be fresh and put on much more pressure alone than last season.

    I see us blitzing more it's going to be an in your face D.

    Their are guys licking their chops to be the SS in 14 and whoever it ends up they will look good with the 10 guys surrounding them.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by captmike View Post
    Whoever ends up as the SS is going to have it waaaaaay easier than Gregory did. They are going to be the 4th in a back 4 with 2 lock down corners 1 of which is the best in the league and McCourty a 2 time pro bowler at 2 positions. We gained size Browner is bigger than Talib and Revis is bigger than Dennard.

    We will have Mayo back and calling the D and Hightower and Collins will have another year under their belts.

    Front 4 will be much better than the end of the season last year. They will have enough depth to be fresh and put on much more pressure alone than last season.

    I see us blitzing more it's going to be an in your face D.

    Their are guys licking their chops to be the SS in 14 and whoever it ends up they will look good with the 10 guys surrounding them.
    While I generally agree with your assessment of the defense, I would also like to mention that Harmon (or whoever plays SS) will most likely be the most targeted DB on the Pats, with the offense knowing they would be the easiest target given Revis, Browner, McCourty, etc.

    SS will still need to be able to make plays and not **** up, which is pretty much what was asked of Gregory, so I doubt they'll have it that much easier than he did.

  14. #14
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    While I generally agree with your assessment of the defense, I would also like to mention that Harmon (or whoever plays SS) will most likely be the most targeted DB on the Pats, with the offense knowing they would be the easiest target given Revis, Browner, McCourty, etc.
    I agree the SS could be a target. I don't think the opposing teams are going to have nearly as much time to pick us apart as they did at the end of last year.

    SS will still need to be able to make plays and not **** up, which is pretty much what was asked of Gregory, so I doubt they'll have it that much easier than he did.
    Agreed again. I think Gregory would feel that this 14 team would have made his job much easier than the 13 with all the injuries. The gaping holes in the middle, the LB's having to find their way without Mayo, Talib being injured all put Gregory in a spot that we needed an all pro.

    Bags had a good point on situational Safety's.
    Last edited by captmike; 04-01-2014 at 04:54 PM.

  15. #15
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    One way or another it appears the Patriots will have an all-Rutgers Safety tandem. Brandon Browner will miss the first four games, so I can see Duron Harmon taking the majority of reps early in the season. As I said earlier, once Browner returns the Patriots want to get their best players on the field together and the only way they do that is by moving Logan Ryan to safety. Pay no attention to the Free-Strong tag labeled on the players. The Patriots play primarily a cover-2 shell, so both safeties are over the top in the deep third. I’ve heard this off-season that Bill Belichick drafted Logan Ryan with the goal of moving him to Safety. That didn’t work out in 2013 for various seasons, but nothing is going to stop it from happening now.
    Safety may not be as big of a need as the fan base has thought.

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