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  1. #1
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    24 Year Old Blake Griffin Vs 24 Year Old Karl Malone

    In another thread from earlier in the year somebody responded to the compariaon with "more like Karl Malone .5". Going through the numbers you may be very surprised.

    Per 36:


    Blake: 24/10/3.5. PER of 24.3, TS% of 59, WS/48 of .215. Offensive rating of 115, DRTG of 103.

    Malone: 25.5/11/2.5. PER of 20.7, TS% of 57, WS/48 of .152. Offensive rating of 107, DRTG of 101.

    Malone attempted 2 more shots per game PER 36, which accounts for the 1.4 ppg extra.

    Does anybody think this is a bad comparison? Or is anybody surprised that statistically Blake is superior? Now... Blake will never have the longevity or overall career of Malone IMO, but looks like the comparison pre draft was warranted.

  2. #2
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    If blake can stay healthy and continue to expand his game he will be one of the all time greats. He needs longevity and to develop his offense game a bit. Many will look to at his jumper to be one of the key places, which I agree with. But I think he would benefit from becoming a bit more savy in the post. I think his development in these areas has actually been hindered a bit from playing with CP3. He gets set up often and doesn't feel the pressure of getting his own shot in the half court like he would if he was the sole offensive weapon.

    In terms of defense, i would love to see blake take it to the next level. I think he is capable of being a DPOY candidate with the amount of natural talent he has been given, but I was hoping that with Doc and a defensive system he would have done more this year.
    "We got to win. Win no matter what. Trip, kick somebody, fight, bite. Whatever. Win."
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  3. #3
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    Blake is elite right now.I still need to see him carry some load in the playoffs though.

  4. #4
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    Yea if he fails in the playoff it won't matter. That's where legacies are built. First two years he was injured, hopefully healthy this time.

  5. #5
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    Griffin has made real strides this year. The last two years he was pretty stagnant in terms of his development, but I think he is the best PF in the league this year.

    Part of Karl Malone's greatness is his longevity though so if Griffin plays half as many years at a high level that "Karl Malone .5" statement will still be accurate.

    I'd still rather have Anthony Davis moving forward.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clippersfan86 View Post
    Yea if he fails in the playoff it won't matter. That's where legacies are built. First two years he was injured, hopefully healthy this time.
    I'd add mentally weak to that.Doc has probably done wonders for him in that aspect.

  7. #7
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    That was Malone's 3rd season, and he exploded efficiency wise the following season. I have yet to see Blake really become flat out better than when he entered the league. While he has made incremental improvements, from age 24-25, Malone went from good starting PF to elite.

    This will be interesting to compare in the next 2 seasons, at ages 25-26.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clippersfan86 View Post
    In another thread from earlier in the year somebody responded to the compariaon with "more like Karl Malone .5". Going through the numbers you may be very surprised.

    Per 36:


    Blake: 24/10/3.5. PER of 24.3, TS% of 59, WS/48 of .215. Offensive rating of 115, DRTG of 103.

    Malone: 25.5/11/2.5. PER of 20.7, TS% of 57, WS/48 of .152. Offensive rating of 107, DRTG of 101.

    Malone attempted 2 more shots per game PER 36, which accounts for the 1.4 ppg extra.

    Does anybody think this is a bad comparison? Or is anybody surprised that statistically Blake is superior? Now... Blake will never have the longevity or overall career of Malone IMO, but looks like the comparison pre draft was warranted.
    I guess my main issue is with the comparison is that I'm not sure a 'same age' comparison is as clear cut or as meaningful as it seems at first glance. The 'age at Feb 1st' date that BBR use is pretty arbitrary - 6 weeks later and that'd be Blake's age 25 season, and 6 weeks is nothing.

    So which season should we use?

    That season was Blake's 4th, and he was 24 and 7 months when it started. He'd already played 228 games for 8211 minutes.
    That season was Malone's 3rd, and he was 24 and 3 months when it started. He'd already played 163 games for 5332 minutes.
    Malone's next season was his 4th, and he was 25 and 3 months when it started. He'd already 245 games and 8530 minutes.

    The next Malone season seems like the better choice to me. It means the age difference is 8 months instead of 4 months, but the actual experience and maturity of his game (which are what we're generally going for when we talk about age) is a much much closer comparison. It's sort of splitting hairs, because "at the same age" comparisons are sort of noisy anyway - some guys develop fast, others don't, and everyone has ups and downs from year to year - but if you want to do it then I'd say that's the more accurate year to use.

    If you use that season, it's more like:
    Malone: 26.8/9.8/2.5. PER of 24.4, TS% of 59, WS/48 of .233. Offensive rating of 115, DRTG of 99.

    So overall I don't think it's true to say Blake's stats are superior at the same point in their career, rather they're almost identical, but that's seriously impressive in itself.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bholly View Post
    I guess my main issue is with the comparison is that I'm not sure a 'same age' comparison is as clear cut or as meaningful as it seems at first glance. The 'age at Feb 1st' date that BBR use is pretty arbitrary - 6 weeks later and that'd be Blake's age 25 season, and 6 weeks is nothing.

    So which season should we use?

    That season was Blake's 4th, and he was 24 and 7 months when it started. He'd already played 228 games for 8211 minutes.
    That season was Malone's 3rd, and he was 24 and 3 months when it started. He'd already played 163 games for 5332 minutes.
    Malone's next season was his 4th, and he was 25 and 3 months when it started. He'd already 245 games and 8530 minutes.

    The next Malone season seems like the better choice to me. It means the age difference is 8 months instead of 4 months, but the actual experience and maturity of his game (which are what we're generally going for when we talk about age) is a much much closer comparison. It's sort of splitting hairs, because "at the same age" comparisons are sort of noisy anyway - some guys develop fast, others don't, and everyone has ups and downs from year to year - but if you want to do it then I'd say that's the more accurate year to use.

    If you use that season, it's more like:
    Malone: 26.8/9.8/2.5. PER of 24.4, TS% of 59, WS/48 of .233. Offensive rating of 115, DRTG of 99.

    So overall I don't think it's true to say Blake's stats are superior at the same point in their career, rather they're almost identical, but that's seriously impressive in itself.
    exactly what I was trying to say. Malone came in totally unrefined, and struggled. Blake had one of the greatest rookie seasons ever. Malone's game grew big time, we are still waiting to see any noticeable jump from Blake.

    If we compare both of their 4th seasons, Malone was better.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  10. #10
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    Cant say I have seen Griffin play as much as i did Malone but Malone could shoot. Not sure Griffin is considered that good a shooter. Malone wasn't a 3 point threat but the 15-18 footer was all day long much like Garnette and Duncan. Add that to one of the best power games anyone has ever seen i think thats why most people consider him the best PF of all time. With the lack of physical play in todays game Malone would be a bigger stronger version of Lebron when going to the hoop if he played today.. If they get out of Lebrons way they would run for cover when the mail man was coming.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by surf and turf View Post
    Cant say I have seen Griffin play as much as i did Malone but Malone could shoot. Not sure Griffin is considered that good a shooter. Malone wasn't a 3 point threat but the 15-18 footer was all day long much like Garnette and Duncan. Add that to one of the best power games anyone has ever seen i think thats why most people consider him the best PF of all time. With the lack of physical play in todays game Malone would be a bigger stronger version of Lebron when going to the hoop if he played today.. If they get out of Lebrons way they would run for cover when the mail man was coming.
    true story:

    I went to Trent Tucker's basketball camp for 3 summers. He told us about a time when he was playing against Utah, and he got stuck defending a 2-1 break with Hornacek and Malone. Malone got the ball from 10 feet out, and Tucker decided he was going to take a charge. He drew the charge, and missed the next 4 games with a chest contusion. Said it was the scariest moment of his basketball career, seeing Karl Malone come at him full speed.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  12. #12
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    Griffin is shooting 40 percent on high volume from midrange this year. Not "elite" yet, but well above average. Also Hawk the way you're talking about development of players sounds like a cliche many follow unfortunately. Blake as you said came in better, so why the hell should he be penalized for improving more incrementally, without a huge leap?

    Blake works as hard as anybody in the league and you conveniently leave out context everytime Blake comes up.

    1. Last summer was Blake's only offseason where he got to truly work on his game. One year was lockout, other two he was injured. The fact that he's where he is now despite that is amazing.

    2. Blake had an atrocious coach his first 3 years that ignored him on offense the last two years often and the first year ran a Blake iso system that was easy to gameplan for. If you want evidence of how much Vinny hinders players look at what Bledsoe, DJ and Blake are doing immediately following his departure. You can't chalk that up to pure coincidence.

    You said you agree with Holly yet your point was quite a bit different than his IMO. He brought up fair arguments but also said " more like equals at the same age, which is great in itself". He was more pointing out why the comparison may be jaded, but still acknowledging how good Blake is.

    You on the other hand made comments about how little he's improved and how superior Malone was. In general you're a good poster but sometimes let an agenda get in the way of a fair post. You've been down on Blalke for a while but if his recent stretch can't change your mind, nothing will.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clippersfan86 View Post
    In another thread from earlier in the year somebody responded to the compariaon with "more like Karl Malone .5". Going through the numbers you may be very surprised.

    Per 36:


    Blake: 24/10/3.5. PER of 24.3, TS% of 59, WS/48 of .215. Offensive rating of 115, DRTG of 103.

    Malone: 25.5/11/2.5. PER of 20.7, TS% of 57, WS/48 of .152. Offensive rating of 107, DRTG of 101.

    Malone attempted 2 more shots per game PER 36, which accounts for the 1.4 ppg extra.

    Does anybody think this is a bad comparison? Or is anybody surprised that statistically Blake is superior? Now... Blake will never have the longevity or overall career of Malone IMO, but looks like the comparison pre draft was warranted.
    I was surprised until i remembered that Karl Malone had a real turnover problem for the first half of his career.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    exactly what I was trying to say. Malone came in totally unrefined, and struggled. Blake had one of the greatest rookie seasons ever. Malone's game grew big time, we are still waiting to see any noticeable jump from Blake.

    If we compare both of their 4th seasons, Malone was better.
    blakes taken quite a big jump this year. his J is legit now, and hes no longer a ****** FT shooter. still lots of room to improve, but this year compared to any of his previous seasons is definitely a noticable difference


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clippersfan86 View Post
    Griffin is shooting 40 percent on high volume from midrange this year. Not "elite" yet, but well above average. Also Hawk the way you're talking about development of players sounds like a cliche many follow unfortunately. Blake as you said came in better, so why the hell should he be penalized for improving more incrementally, without a huge leap?

    Blake works as hard as anybody in the league and you conveniently leave out context everytime Blake comes up.

    1. Last summer was Blake's only offseason where he got to truly work on his game. One year was lockout, other two he was injured. The fact that he's where he is now despite that is amazing.

    2. Blake had an atrocious coach his first 3 years that ignored him on offense the last two years often and the first year ran a Blake iso system that was easy to gameplan for. If you want evidence of how much Vinny hinders players look at what Bledsoe, DJ and Blake are doing immediately following his departure. You can't chalk that up to pure coincidence.

    You said you agree with Holly yet your point was quite a bit different than his IMO. He brought up fair arguments but also said " more like equals at the same age, which is great in itself". He was more pointing out why the comparison may be jaded, but still acknowledging how good Blake is.

    You on the other hand made comments about how little he's improved and how superior Malone was. In general you're a good poster but sometimes let an agenda get in the way of a fair post. You've been down on Blalke for a while but if his recent stretch can't change your mind, nothing will.
    did you watch Malone his first year or two?

    wtf agenda? I simply thought we would see a much better Blake at this point, after watching how polished he was as a rookie.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

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