Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,344
    vCash
    1500

    Revisiting the Farrell/Vizquel Spat

    Having had some time to digest Farrell's loathsome slither over to Beantown (and subsequent World Series Title...) I found the recent article in the Sun pretty interesting and revealing.

    http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/10...d-john-farrell

    First off, I've got the utmost respect for Omar Vizquel, and while his tenure as a Blue Jay was brief and statistically ineffective, you can't deny that he had a great career, was well respected by many in the game, and seems a worthy of a Hall-Call in the future.

    Classy move paying for Alvarez's family's flight from Venezuela, and while I can see his displeasure with Farrell altering the rotation, the manager always reserves the right to try to put his team in the best position to compete day-in and day-out. Farrell really could have taken the high road if he had offered to pay for the family to fly to Boston to watch Alvarez pitch. Now that would have been a classy gesture!

    Ultimately, I think Omar was right in calling Farrell out at the end of the season for his lack of discipline. Mistakes can not go unaddressed - and that season, there were plenty of consistent mistakes, made by a whole host of Jays. I don't care if you're Brett Lawrie - the prized prospect, or Colby Rasmus - the big piece that your GM brought in (or anyone else for that matter)...How many times did Lawrie run into outs on the bases, or did Colby miss a cut-off man by a Country-mile?!? If players make the same mistakes time and time again, you need to find a way to break the habit. If that means stapling their behind to the bench for a couple of games than do it. Too many games are lost with poor fundamentals. Fans often cry over missed opportunities for "development" in young players, citing they need more ABs, more repetitions, more playing time or more work with a certain coach. Sometimes the best thing for a player's development is to get a wake up call. No player is bigger than the team, and if the organization wants to be successful, they must demand execution from every player; Star or Scrub.

    Omar is as old-school as they come, so I can see how it would have been difficult for him to sit back and see simple plays get botched all season long, without the threat of reduced playing time or at least an earful from the manager. Good on AA for NOT releasing Vizquel. If Farrell sough not to reprimand his players all season long for simple mistakes, and then was prepared to release a guy like Vizquel over an incident where Omar voiced his genuine concern for the team's well-being, then clearly Farrell missed the point. We can't pretend to know how Omar went about things in the clubhouse, and perhaps he didn't direct his concerns to Farrell in the right way, but I think ultimately his intent was to help the team.

    Hopefully Alex Anthopoulos and John Gibbons have taken these lessons to heart. Both seem intent on fielding a more fundamentally sound ball club this year, and I would imagine that there are plenty of players that will have a short leash. We are supposed to be a contender this year, so if a player is hurting the team with consistent mistakes, I wouldn't be surprised to see Gibby sit them down. AA also has shown a willingness to cut-ties with players that prove incapable of playing fundamental baseball (Bonafacio, Arencibia) so this bodes well for 2014.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    T.O., Canada
    Posts
    14,692
    vCash
    1500
    Good riddance to both. On the topic though, why do so many people call Vizquel a hall of famer? He's not really close, is he?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    5,066
    vCash
    2633
    Don't really want to debate it, but I don't consider Vizquel a HOF player.

    But anyways, that story just reaffirms the type of person that I already think John Farrell is. Low character guy.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Purgatory
    Posts
    6,216
    vCash
    1000
    Quote Originally Posted by 2009mvp View Post
    Good riddance to both. On the topic though, why do so many people call Vizquel a hall of famer? He's not really close, is he?
    Isn't Baseball hall of fame really hard to get in to?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    19,260
    vCash
    1500
    AA and Gibbons can claim to be more defensive minded, but the bottom line is the only reason behind this defensive fundamental movement is because Goins is playing 2B. Nothing else has really changed with this team between last year and this year.

    As for Vizquel, it's just so irrelevant. Both Farrell & Vizquel are gone and the Jays are better for it. I don't know why it was brought up now.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    True North Strong and Free
    Posts
    1,365
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by 2009mvp View Post
    Good riddance to both. On the topic though, why do so many people call Vizquel a hall of famer? He's not really close, is he?
    It's an interesting debate with Vizquel because he's another one of those "specialist" players. 11 Gold Gloves put him in the conversation, yet only 3 ASG's and one top 20 MVP vote make him seem so far away. I was surprised to hear that his career OBP is actually better than Ozzie's. He ended up second in all time hits for a shortstop, and near the top in stolen bases. I think he may get in eventually, but it definitely isn't the sure thing some make it out to be.

    Here's the Vizquel Hall of Fame debate I was reading...

    http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/208338
    Last edited by heusy_79; 02-12-2014 at 11:45 AM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Key Biscayne, Florida
    Posts
    9,960
    vCash
    1500
    When does the "Why Did Halladay Leave" Thread start. I know we don't have much going on now, but these guys are long gone and been talked about to death. Literally, my cat just passed out reading this thread!

    Visquel is not a HOF to me!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    13,349
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by 2009mvp View Post
    Good riddance to both. On the topic though, why do so many people call Vizquel a hall of famer? He's not really close, is he?
    No he's not close at all.... he won't even sniff getting into the Hall.

    Great player, was very productive for many years but certainly not a HoFer in my opinion (and I'd be shocked if he got in).

    As for the Jays and their defense, we'll see how comfortable they are with Ryan Goins when he's batting .189 at the end of April.


    Had to be done! Go T-Rex

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    813
    vCash
    1500
    I will put money on Vizquel getting into the hall of fame, not saying it's right or wrong but just watch

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    707
    vCash
    1500
    Omar Vizquel will get into the hall of fame. Best defensive shortstop of all time.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    T.O., Canada
    Posts
    14,692
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bobmarley View Post
    Omar Vizquel will get into the hall of fame. Best defensive shortstop of all time.
    Uhh, no.

    Farrell’s reply was something “I’m not running a Little League team here, I’m doing what’s best for the team.”
    Well that's where he's got you Farrell, you pretty much were running a little league team. All the way from the top on down.
    2013

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    707
    vCash
    1500
    [QUOTE=2009mvp;27962865]Uhh, no.

    who was better?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Purgatory
    Posts
    6,216
    vCash
    1000
    [QUOTE=bobmarley;27963016]
    Quote Originally Posted by 2009mvp View Post
    Uhh, no.

    who was better?
    Cal Ripken, Ozzie Smith, Jeter? I dunno, I always thought Ozzie was the best defense wise. other guys are pretty good as well.
    Last edited by killersweet; 02-12-2014 at 01:43 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    35
    vCash
    1500
    Jeter?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    T.O., Canada
    Posts
    14,692
    vCash
    1500
    Ozzie's head and shoulders above everybody.
    2013

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •