Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 33
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn New York
    Posts
    12,692
    vCash
    1500

    Do you like the concept of losing a draft pick?

    Curious how everybody stands on this. Personally, I despise it. Players like Drew, Santana, Jimenez, etc will remained unsigned because they're 'too good' and teams don't want to forfeit a pick.

    The biggest issue I have with it however is that teams lose a draft pick to begin with. Unless you suck, you can't sign a free agent and get away with it without forfeiting over something potentially big? In a sense, it's just a socialist ideology that everybody should be equal in terms of talent and you should suffer for being better

    Those are just my 2 cents on the matter, what are yours?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,648
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    Curious how everybody stands on this. Personally, I despise it. Players like Drew, Santana, Jimenez, etc will remained unsigned because they're 'too good' and teams don't want to forfeit a pick.

    The biggest issue I have with it however is that teams lose a draft pick to begin with. Unless you suck, you can't sign a free agent and get away with it without forfeiting over something potentially big? In a sense, it's just a socialist ideology that everybody should be equal in terms of talent and you should suffer for being better

    Those are just my 2 cents on the matter, what are yours?
    That you don't have any idea what 'socialist' means.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn New York
    Posts
    12,692
    vCash
    1500

    Do you like the concept of losing a draft pick?

    It was the awful, sarcastic, comedic relief of the post.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    21,754
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    Curious how everybody stands on this. Personally, I despise it. Players like Drew, Santana, Jimenez, etc will remained unsigned because they're 'too good' and teams don't want to forfeit a pick.

    The biggest issue I have with it however is that teams lose a draft pick to begin with. Unless you suck, you can't sign a free agent and get away with it without forfeiting over something potentially big? In a sense, it's just a socialist ideology that everybody should be equal in terms of talent and you should suffer for being better

    Those are just my 2 cents on the matter, what are yours?
    It wasn't much different before the qualifying offer with Type A and Type B FA.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,648
    vCash
    1500
    It has, in some instances, ended up hurting the player.

    Perhaps the pick needs to be changed. Instead of 1st round pick, maybe a 3rd?
    Instead of a decreasing pick, an increasing pick (the signing team loses a 3rd round pick for the 1st free agent signed, and 2nd round pick for the 2nd, etc...)?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    21,754
    vCash
    1500
    I think they should do away with giving up the slot allotment in its entirety. Maybe penalize a certain portion of that slot allotment while still giving up the first/second round pick for the team who signs that QO FA.
    Last edited by metswon69; 02-09-2014 at 11:51 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    37,519
    vCash
    1000
    The whole point of the pick system is so teams can get a pick for losing a player it otherwise can't retain.


    Personally, I think they should tier it better


    The top 1% of players, the team that signs that player should lose a first and second rounder and have those picks given to the team that lost them. This would be the Mike Trout, Miguel Cabrera, Andruw McCutchen caliber players. Basically only 10 guys would qualify for those sort of treatment, very very special players.

    The 1.1-2% top players, should have that team lose just a second rounder....so another 10 players here

    And then 2.1%-3% would just be a third rounder.....so another 10 players here.

    This is only 30 players in the game that qualify as a protected player. And the teams that would sign these guys, probably wouldn't mind giving up that sort of picks for that quality of a player.

    How would I define these players?

    Probably by WAR and a variety of other statistics including traditional numbers laced in there.

    And by three years of data. The last season as a triple weight, two years ago as a double weight, and three years ago as a single weight



    Wanna know some of the players that would qualify under this type of system during this off-season?

    1%

    Miggy
    Trout
    Cutch
    Cano
    Braun
    Votto
    Kershaw
    Verlander
    etc

    1.1-2%
    Molina
    Ellsbury
    Wright
    Posey
    Lee
    Felix Hernandez


    2.1-3%
    Stanton
    Headley
    Fielder
    Mauer
    Shields
    Scherzer

    I'm sure they could develop a system that showed what players were the most valuable. These are players that would be offered compensation by their teams, and they would each probably deny it, and sign with the highest bidder. But the team losing these players would actually get something of value back for them.

    Or maybe you do more players than that, maybe the top 3% cost a first rounder, 3.1-5% cost a second rounder, and 5.1-7.5% cost a third rounder. But I think you could tier it, and make it only special players. Right now, whoever signs Stephen Drew is losing the same thing that the Mariners lost for signing Cano. And the Red Sox will basically get what the Yankees got for Cano.


    Or maybe a panel determines the best free agents every off-season, and assigns a compensation value to the team losing the best players of that free agent class. But that would probably make nobody happy.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    san josYAY
    Posts
    10,555
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    It wasn't much different before the qualifying offer with Type A and Type B FA.
    well a team that lost a player got 2 picks back, not always in the first round. I think the reason things have changed since the new CBA isn't because of the one pick system, but because of the cap on draft picks, you don't just forfeit your pick, you forfeit the money assigned to it, which makes it harder to sign away athletic high school players from going to college and playing other sports. I think that's as big a problem as any.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    san josYAY
    Posts
    10,555
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    The whole point of the pick system is so teams can get a pick for losing a player it otherwise can't retain.
    I don't want to get into any of the other points, but there are times that the teams don't want to resign the player, either because of cheaper internal options, or a limited payroll, the tigers traded Fister because they had other internal options they believe in(drew smyly) and they don't have the money to pay everyone. Had they kept fister until free agency, they would have let him walk because they wouldn't want to pay him for his age 32+ seasons. Not necessarily because they can't keep him around, I don't know if teams should be rewarded for that.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6,648
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    I don't want to get into any of the other points, but there are times that the teams don't want to resign the player, either because of cheaper internal options, or a limited payroll, the tigers traded Fister because they had other internal options they believe in(drew smyly) and they don't have the money to pay everyone. Had they kept fister until free agency, they would have let him walk because they wouldn't want to pay him for his age 32+ seasons. Not necessarily because they can't keep him around, I don't know if teams should be rewarded for that.
    That's exactly why the compensation system was created.

    Ideally, it was to give something back to non-high-revenue teams for losing their free agents or to give them more chance to re-sign them (by lowering their value to other teams).

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    21,754
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by ciaban View Post
    well a team that lost a player got 2 picks back, not always in the first round. I think the reason things have changed since the new CBA isn't because of the one pick system, but because of the cap on draft picks, you don't just forfeit your pick, you forfeit the money assigned to it, which makes it harder to sign away athletic high school players from going to college and playing other sports. I think that's as big a problem as any.
    I know the difference. There was once a type C FA as well but there was still compensation passed for signing that quality of a FA in the old system. The bigger problem now seems the loss of the bonus pool allotment which can affect a team's whole draft in that respective year.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    san josYAY
    Posts
    10,555
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    That's exactly why the compensation system was created.

    Ideally, it was to give something back to non-high-revenue teams for losing their free agents or to give them more chance to re-sign them (by lowering their value to other teams).
    My point is that there are plenty of occasions where teams don't want to bring the player back, if the either was about to hit free agency the dodgers probably wouldn't try to resign him, they would just let him walk. If hanley leaves in Free Agency it's probably because they let him leave, not because they couldn't retain him. Why should they be compensated, the pick system hurts some of these players, I understand wanting to help teams that wouldn't normally be able to keep the players that they would want to keep, but it isn't always the case.

    Under the old system you would see teams making a QO to middle relievers just hoping that they would sign elsewhere.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    san josYAY
    Posts
    10,555
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I know the difference. There was once a type C FA as well but there was still compensation passed for signing that quality of a FA in the old system. The bigger problem now seems the loss of the bonus pool allotment which can affect a team's whole draft in that respective year.
    I didn't see that second post of yours, when I made that post, and I agree fully with it.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    37,519
    vCash
    1000
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    I know the difference. There was once a type C FA as well but there was still compensation passed for signing that quality of a FA in the old system. The bigger problem now seems the loss of the bonus pool allotment which can affect a team's whole draft in that respective year.
    Plus, teams have finally seemed to figure out that you can't buy championship teams, that you have to develop them. So overall, teams aren't being built in free agency......because you can't build a team in free agency.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    san josYAY
    Posts
    10,555
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Plus, teams have finally seemed to figure out that you can't buy championship teams, that you have to develop them. So overall, teams aren't being built in free agency......because you can't build a team in free agency.
    There is also the fact that these free agent classes have gotten much weaker. Teams are doing there best to lock players up early, it won't always work, likely with Price, but it does seem to be happening much more now.

    Next years free agency class looks very very good, but could have looked something like

    Pitchers:
    Kershaw
    Verlander
    Felix
    Scherzer
    Lester
    Masterson
    Baily


    Position Players:
    Rasmus
    H. Rameriez
    P. Sandoval
    Headly
    Andrus
    A. Cabrerra
    Lowrie
    Hardy
    Markakis

    I bolded the top players that locked up, and this is off the top of my head so I could have missed some, but even then, you don't typically see a free agent infield look this good, and this would have easily been the best free agent pitching class ever.
    Last edited by ciaban; 02-10-2014 at 02:52 AM.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •