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  1. #1
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    Why Stephen Hill is a bust

    This is an article from March 3rd 2012 before the draft

    SCOUTS NOTES: BUYER BEWARE ON COMBINE "WINNER" STEPHEN HILL OF GEORGIA TECH

    The NFL Combine has come and gone, and it's time for some prospects workouts to be overblown, misunderstood, and interpreted as major "stock rising". Sometimes even NFL teams buy into these workout numbers a bit too much, and actual game film gets overlooked at times.

    This year, it seems that one intriguing prospect who stood out from the raw combine numbers is Georgia Tech receiver Stephen Hill. And at 6'4, 215, with a 4.36 forty time and a host of other great numbers, what's NOT to like?

    Well, I'd be happy to key you in on why Hill is more of a question mark than your team's answer at receiver.

    First, let's look deeper at the Combine and the numbers themselves. As I pointed out in this article before, each drill does have meaning as a way to "quantify athleticism", something that is obviously very difficult to do.

    Hill, in a sense, showed supreme athleticism for his size in most drills. He measured in at 6'4, 215, remarkably impressive size for the numbers he was about to put up. He ran a 4.36 "official" time, a 39.5 inch vertical jump, and a 11'1" broad jump. What does that show?

    Well the fast forty time shows the deep straight-line speed Hill possess, something obvious on film as well. The nearly 40 inch vertical and 11' broad jump is extreamely impressive in showing his explosion both in air and straight ahead, obviously crucial for a receiver fighting for jump balls and getting through traffic in air for explosiveness.

    But if we're going to use numbers to describe Hill's performance, let's use ALL of them.

    Hill also posted the LOWEST 20 yard shuttle time of any receiver who participated, as well as the only receiver to have a SLOWER 20 yard shuttle time than forty yard dash time. He also had the 5th slowest 60 yard shuttle, that likely only being saved due to his straight line speed. So what does that mean? It means that his change of direction and explosion his quick, short areas is lackluster and likely a major deterant for a player at a position where stop-start, change of direction, and keeping balance through cuts is crucial.

    Even outside of the Combine numbers, Hill on film is certainly not in the first round discussion. He has been compared to DeMaryius Thomas, former Georgia Tech first round wide receiver who also played in Paul Johnson's triple option offense. And that's fair, they are similar body types, played in the same system, and have some of the same "lack of development" concerns.

    To compare them however, and call them near equals is not fair to Thomas. Thomas was a better run after catch receiver (forget stats, watch the games) who could make more defenders miss in the open field, and was able to run through passes much smoother. While neither receiver was asked to run many short-mid area routes across the middle, Thomas did showcase better in traffic, non-jump ball skills as well as Hill.

    Along with that, let's remember that despite Thomas being taken in round one and his recent successes in Denver, keep in mind two things: One, he barely was a first rounder in what was a fairly mediocre receiver class. And two, it took him a good year and a half before he showed signs of success, and that was in part to him being a great complement to Tebow at quarterback thanks to his run after catch ability and wide catch radius.

    Stephen Hill made himself some money at the Combine, that's for sure. He'll be moving up our board coming next week because his size-speed combo and potential is just too exciting to pass up at some point in the draft.

    But he is NOT worth a first round pick. Not a second either. If a team really feels they can develop his routes, hide his lack of great short area change of direction and balance, and utilize him in jump ball situations on the outside, then sure, he can really develop into an outside receiver in a consistent 3-wide set where he's not asked to have a developed route tree and is used more to open up room for a slot receiver.

    Stephen Hill likely will crack our Top 20 wide receiver rankings, and in a rare, elite class like this year's, that's saying a lot about Hill's workout. But as far as outside receiver's go, I'll take Blackmon, Floyd, Wright, Jones, Jeffery, Sanu, Quick, Randle, Criner, and Marvin Jones EASILY over Hill, and I think most level-headed teams will believe the same.
    http://www.optimumscouting.com/scout...rgia-tech.html

    I doubt he's ever going to figure it out in the NFL. He's the perfect example of why the "40 time" is flawed. I'll take the tape over the combine anyday.

    It should only be used as a supplement to a draft prospect's future in the NFL.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 02-09-2014 at 12:32 AM.

  2. #2
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    I'm not ready to give up on him yet. We knew drafting him he was extremely raw and would take a couple of years. Plus our WR coach sucks in my opinion.

    He has had some bad luck staying healthy, but I still think he can be a solid option as a #3 receiver and maybe one day a #2

  3. #3
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    He's a bust because he has yet to learn how to run professional routes, he can't or at least won't catch with his hands, and has a second rate WR coach. Personally I've seen enough and it's time for him to go unless they keep him as only a deep threat. The deep ball should open up for us more when we finally get more athletic and talented with our new WR's
    Last edited by ibleedgreen; 02-08-2014 at 10:35 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
    I'm not ready to give up on him yet. We knew drafting him he was extremely raw and would take a couple of years. Plus our WR coach sucks in my opinion.

    He has had some bad luck staying healthy, but I still think he can be a solid option as a #3 receiver and maybe one day a #2
    Did you read the article?

    He doesn't possess the cutting ability to be an NFL wide receiver. He's the only player to ever record a lower shuttle time than 40 time. His cone drill was also very poor. What this means is that his route running will continue to be bad and he'll never make defenders miss when he has the ball in his hands.

    He was never anything in college, and without his size, 40 time, and vertical, no one would be talking about him. The only thing he can do is run deep patterns, but he doesn't get separation because of his route running.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 02-08-2014 at 10:41 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Did you read the article?

    He doesn't possess the cutting ability to be an NFL wide receiver. He's the only player to ever record a lower shuttle time than 40 time. His cone drill was also very poor. What this means is that his route running will continue to be bad and he'll never make defenders miss when he has the ball in his hands.

    He was never anything in college, and without his size, 40 time, and vertical, no one would be talking about him. The only thing he can do is run deep patterns, but he doesn't get separation because of his route running.
    With his size and vertical, he doesn't need to get separation. He only needs to learn to catch the damn ball. He's almost impossible to defend because of his size, speed, and abiltiy to leap for balls that most DB's can't defend.

    He was drafted with the idea that he's either a stud, or a bust. So far, he's neither because he hasn't been able to stay on the field.

    To much potential upside, and cheap. Cutting him would be a mistake. Just don't go into 2014 with him being counted on as our #2, 3, or 4. He should be #5 or 6 on the depth chart, and earn his way into the rotation.


    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Magoo View Post
    With his size and vertical, he doesn't need to get separation. He only needs to learn to catch the damn ball. He's almost impossible to defend because of his size, speed, and ability to leap for balls that most DB's can't defend.

    He was drafted with the idea that he's either a stud, or a bust. So far, he's neither because he hasn't been able to stay on the field.

    To much potential upside, and cheap. Cutting him would be a mistake. Just don't go into 2014 with him being counted on as our #2, 3, or 4. He should be #5 or 6 on the depth chart, and earn his way into the rotation.
    Did you even read the article? lol he has ZERO agility. That's the issue here.

    Of course he needs to get separation. He doesn't high point the ball well at all and body-catches way too frequently. Even though Hill has size, he plays small because he doesn't use his full reach.

    His routes are terrible so corners defend him with ease. You need to get open to get the ball, and that's why he always disappears. I think he's a pure bust. He was a project out of college, and he hasn't improved one bit. He looks as awkward and ******** as ever on the football field. He's a combine all-star but an NFL loser sadly.

    The only part I might agree with is him being #5 or #6 on the WR depth chart. I have no problems with that, but I don't expect him to ever contribute to anyone in the NFL.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 02-09-2014 at 06:07 PM.

  7. #7
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    I mean look at Stephen Hill's 2012 "highlights"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-deAYMziEA

    Where is the upside? He looks horrible with no YAC ability either.

  8. #8
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    Its heading that way, but its too early to cut him IMO.

    When his contract runs out, let him walk if he doesnt improve.
    Go Knicks!

    All time

  9. #9
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    Crazy talk. If you wanted to use this to say we shouldn't waste a high round draft pick on him great. But he is already on our team. To think we should just cut him now that we have years in development in him is not a good business move. Give him this season and you will have a very good gauge of where he is compared to where he was. Especially because if he gets hurt again then you know he is just injury prone.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by aNYer View Post
    Crazy talk. If you wanted to use this to say we shouldn't waste a high round draft pick on him great. But he is already on our team. To think we should just cut him now that we have years in development in him is not a good business move. Give him this season and you will have a very good gauge of where he is compared to where he was. Especially because if he gets hurt again then you know he is just injury prone.
    It was kind of both. I think he was a waste of a pick and we should just move on. I'd bet someone like Greg Salas would contribute more than Hill if given the chance. That's how little I think of Hill now.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Did you read the article?
    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Did you even read the article?
    That's twice you started posts with that same question. Is that going to be your new thing? Post an article that "makes your point," and ask everyone who disagrees with your opinion if they've read it?

    The lengths you will go to in order to bash players you've given up on, and defend players you love are ridiculous.

    Oh and to answer your question (I mean questions)...whether the two of us read the article is completely irrelevant. One article, written by one person is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

    Tell me again how Adam Rubin is an expert on the Mets finances because he has a "business degree" from Warthon.


    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    It was kind of both. I think he was a waste of a pick and we should just move on. I'd bet someone like Greg Salas would contribute more than Hill if given the chance. That's how little I think of Hill now.
    If the Giants had moved on, several of their very good WR's would have never ascended to their current status...including Victor Cruz.


    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
    -Sun Tzu

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Magoo View Post
    That's twice you started posts with that same question. Is that going to be your new thing? Post an article that "makes your point," and ask everyone who disagrees with your opinion if they've read it?

    The lengths you will go to in order to bash players you've given up on, and defend players you love are ridiculous.

    Oh and to answer your question (I mean questions)...whether the two of us read the article is completely irrelevant. One article, written by one person is about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

    Tell me again how Adam Rubin is an expert on the Mets finances because he has a "business degree" from Warthon.
    That's because you are ignoring the basis of the article. It makes a great point and it pretty much explains why Hill has struggled so much in the NFL up to this point before he actually even played a single snap in the NFL. While everyone was drooling over his size, 40 time, and vertical, they neglected his pathetic inability to change directions and move laterally in the cone and shuttle drills.

    Great straight line speed and size will not get you anywhere without all the other skills a WR needs to possess.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Magoo View Post
    If the Giants had moved on, several of their very good WR's would have never ascended to their current status...including Victor Cruz.
    Victor Cruz? This is not even close to being the same situation.

    Cruz was undrafted and did not play a single snap in the NFL before exploding in 2011.

    Hill was drafted in the 2nd round and has been given the WR job the last two seasons. He has done absolutely nothing with it and now we are searching for starting WRs in the draft and FA market.

    It's not like Hill ever flashed anything special. I just linked all 21 of his catches in his rookie season and he looked terrible.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    Victor Cruz? This is not even close to being the same situation.

    Cruz was undrafted and did not play a single snap in the NFL before exploding in 2011.

    Hill was drafted in the 2nd round and has been given the WR job the last two seasons. He has done absolutely nothing with it and now we are searching for starting WRs in the draft and FA market.

    It's not like Hill ever flashed anything special. I just linked all 21 of his catches in his rookie season and he looked terrible.
    You're so predictable.

    Cruz flashed nothing special, and went undrafted. Yet he's an elite receiver in the NFL. Hill was drafted too high, but that's not his fault. He was given the #2 WR role because the Jets didn't have a #2...or a #1...or a #3.

    Hill is not a bust yet, and as I've already noted, he should not be higher on the depth chart than 5 or 6 to see if he can stay healthy and develop. Why do you have a problem with that, unless you're just being your usual stubborn self who either loves a player or calls him garbage?


    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
    -Sun Tzu

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