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View Poll Results: Are the Lakers intentionally tanking right now?

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  • Yes, Laker coaches are intentionally taking their foot off the gas so we lose more games

    1 11.11%
  • Kind of, sometimes we tank but we still want to win games so we get confused.

    1 11.11%
  • Not really, we just lose cause we suck then we tell ourselves we're tanking.

    5 55.56%
  • NO!! No Laker team would ever lower itself to tanking!!

    2 22.22%
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  1. #1
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    Is Rambis the worst defensive coach in Laker history?

    We all know that he was one of the worst Laker head coaches in his brief stint, but now as the Lakers defensive coordinator or assistant, do we have to acknowledge that he is the worst Laker defensive coordinator ever?

    I mean, unless he is telling these guys "go out there and TANK," or unless he is deliberately altering schemes to allow more points in order to help us tank... then this guy is a freakin' paperweight yo. He's a freakin' turkey of the highest order.

    And this brings up another good point: are we tanking, or are we not tanking? The local radio folks, from Ireland to Shelbourne and all the way around, seem really ambivalent about it. Sometimes they think we are tanking and it's like "hey, no big deal" and we need the draft pick but then sometimes it's all fire and brimstone and "Magic is totally right" and "we need to bring back Phil"... but... We should just get it straight whether we are intentionally tanking right now or whether we are trying to win games and failing. It makes a difference.

    To me, it seems obvious that we are INTENTIONALLY TANKING. That is, we are intentionally losing games while still improving the team and cultivating the players.

    The Laker team on Xmas day was a potential playoff bubble team, and I am 100% sure that these Lakers could be at or above .500 if we weren't tanking.
    Last edited by Sssmush; 02-05-2014 at 10:08 PM.

  2. #2
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    Coaches and players aren't tanking. It's stupid. If D'Antoni told the team to go out there and tank for a draft pick, why would they do it? Most of these guys aren't even gonna be back on the team next season, and most of them are trying to prove that they're NBA players. Someone like Wes Johnson, or Jordan Farmar, or Kendell Marshall aren't going to suck on purpose. Neither is D'Antoni, because soon enough he'll be gone. The team just isn't very good. If healthy, then yes, we're an above .500 team. But not with Pau out, Kobe out, Xavier out, Meeks out, Nash out, Farmar and Blake were just out, Jordan Hill out, with all those injuries, what do you expect? They're gonna lose. It doesn't mean we're tanking. We just suck. I'm not sure why it's so popular to believe that we're losing on purpose. We have some below average players and a bad coach.

  3. #3
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    Your imagination runs wild Sssmushie.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sssmush View Post
    We all know that he was one of the worst Laker head coaches in his brief stint, but now as the Lakers defensive coordinator or assistant, do we have to acknowledge that he is the worst Laker defensive coordinator ever?

    I mean, unless he is telling these guys "go out there and TANK," or unless he is deliberately altering schemes to allow more points in order to help us tank... then this guy is a freakin' paperweight yo. He's a freakin' turkey of the highest order.

    And this brings up another good point: are we tanking, or are we not tanking? The local radio folks, from Ireland to Shelbourne and all the way around, seem really ambivalent about it. Sometimes they think we are tanking and it's like "hey, no big deal" and we need the draft pick but then sometimes it's all fire and brimstone and "Magic is totally right" and "we need to bring back Phil"... but... We should just get it straight whether we are intentionally tanking right now or whether we are trying to win games and failing. It makes a difference.

    To me, it seems obvious that we are INTENTIONALLY TANKING. That is, we are intentionally losing games while still improving the team and cultivating the players.

    The Laker team on Xmas day was a potential playoff bubble team, and I am 100% sure that these Lakers could be at or above .500 if we weren't tanking.
    Rambis was 24-13 as the Laker's head coach. He coached them to 4th seed in the west and they finished 6 games out of first. So worst laker coach is not really a fitting title to put on the man.

    i don't think you know anything about basketball.

  5. #5
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    SMH...

    Think about it... They've been without their top 3 point guards (Nash, Blake, Farmar), top two 2 guards (Kobe, Henry), and other players for a lot of the season.

    This team is not tanking. The groups of 5 that have been out there have been terrible.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by championships View Post
    Your imagination runs wild Sssmushie.
    Look... a large number of Laker fans on this site, including you, including me, have some form of "tank" icon on their sig, and from what I'm hearing on the local sports radio the whole idea of tanking right now to get a higher pick and rebuild is HUGE among Laker fans.

    So... are we saying here now today that that is all just in Laker fans minds? That we're just kind of *hoping* that since it's a losing season that we just go all the way and get a top 3 pick, but we all just simultaneously believe that is just a side effect of us just not being that good or of the team having a ton of injuries?

    I mean, is "tanking" just something we, the fans, do? Like we just secretly take some enjoyment from us losing games so we kind of root against the team? OR is tanking something that the coaches and F.O. have also got on board with? Keep in mind that various teams (San Antonio and Houston) have admittedly tanked on a massive level in the past. So, this idea that the Lakers are now tanking is not as astronomically far fetched as some of you are acting right now.

    And the players wouldn't have to be "in" on it; I'm certain that the players aren't out there dumping games. The players are playing their hearts out.

    But... Dantoni, under instruction from Mitch or whoever, could tweak the team and take the foot off the gas. Here's a few things they could easily do:

    1. Insert suboptimal lineups for certain situations. Of course this can backfire sometimes when, for example, Nick Young suddenly starts shutting down Lebron. But usually it will just quietly take us out of games.

    2. Use a tempo and defensive schemes that will allow us to score a lot of points but more or less insure that we lose 90% of games. This could take the form of perimeter defending and letting the ball go inside to a higher percentage scorer closer to the hoop. So, same amount of shots, but teams hit a higher percentage. This allows players to run around and score a ton of points and play their hearts out, but with just a few tweaks here and there the extra percentages of offensive expectation consistently give the team something like a .10 point per possession advantage, which proves insurmountable in most games.

    I'm not claiming to know exactly where these unbalanced lines in the defensive schemes are, exactly, however I'm reasonably sure that Dantoni could roll out a team tomorrow that would finish the season at a .500+ pace very easily.

    3. Don't bring in the players that would fix the real holes. For instance, defensive rebounder/defender rough-rider type dudes on ten day contracts. Those kind of players, who wouldn't have to be fantastically skilled or talented, would provide a perfect counterbalance to the splashy 3-point perimeter Dantoni game. Instead, we use a Pau, who actually slows down the offense and is about 10 percentage points off of what you'd want there AND is a defensive sieve and easily boxed out most of the time.

    I'm reasonably sure that you could give Dantoni one week and he could bring in a couple pogo stick hardnosed rebounder type guys and have them running the floor and defending like beasts, using his Pete Carroll "play to your strengths" kind of coaching strategy. The fact that we have an older obsolete Pau and a complete retread/discard Kaman running around out there should tell you everything you need to know.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdaddyphnw View Post
    Rambis was 24-13 as the Laker's head coach. He coached them to 4th seed in the west and they finished 6 games out of first. So worst laker coach is not really a fitting title to put on the man.

    i don't think you know anything about basketball.
    Well, as I see it, there are two possibilities: either we are tanking, or our defensive coach Rambis is orchestrating one of the worst defensive teams in NBA history.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sssmush View Post
    Well, as I see it, there are two possibilities: either we are tanking, or our defensive coach Rambis is orchestrating one of the worst defensive teams in NBA history.
    That may be "how you see it", but there is another option.

    The roster is not good enough to win right now, and the players we do have are seriously struggling with injury.

    Do you think the players are faking injuries?
    Do you think this team has the talent to be a top 10 defensive team?

    as it relates to the defense, the Lakers have a finesse Center (who has been in and out with injuries), and a small unproven lineup around him.

    When the guy who started at the 4 for weeks.... is now in the D league that's not a good sign.

    When the guy who IS starting at the 4 was a mid second round pick who was injured in over the summer and had no summer league or training camp... That's not a good sign.

    When the team starts a point guard for a solid month who was thrown away by the Suns and Released by the Wizards, and no team wanted him for the first 3 months of the season.... That's not a good sign.

    When your starting 1,2,3 and 4 for a significant stretch makes a TOTAL SALARY LESS THEN THE MID LEVEL EXCEPTION.... That is NOT a good sign!!! $3.5 Million!!! (Kelly $500,000, Johnson $900,000, Meeks $1.5 Million, Marshall $500,000)

    Do you really expect lock down defense?

    Rambis should get a bonus just for having to go to work every day with this lineup.
    Last edited by DC Laker; 02-06-2014 at 10:09 AM.

    Hey I'll be your friend now that you don't suck...

  9. #9
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    do you think any coach could make this team good defensively? they don't have the talent on the roster to do that lol...the dantoni offense also not only inflates the lakers offensive stats, but it also inflates the other teams offensive stats. lakers with dantoni will never have a good defense

  10. #10
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    Wasn't Rambis a defensive coach when PJ was the head coach and won some championships?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sssmush View Post
    Look... a large number of Laker fans on this site, including you, including me, have some form of "tank" icon on their sig, and from what I'm hearing on the local sports radio the whole idea of tanking right now to get a higher pick and rebuild is HUGE among Laker fans.

    So... are we saying here now today that that is all just in Laker fans minds? That we're just kind of *hoping* that since it's a losing season that we just go all the way and get a top 3 pick, but we all just simultaneously believe that is just a side effect of us just not being that good or of the team having a ton of injuries?

    I mean, is "tanking" just something we, the fans, do? Like we just secretly take some enjoyment from us losing games so we kind of root against the team? OR is tanking something that the coaches and F.O. have also got on board with? Keep in mind that various teams (San Antonio and Houston) have admittedly tanked on a massive level in the past. So, this idea that the Lakers are now tanking is not as astronomically far fetched as some of you are acting right now.

    And the players wouldn't have to be "in" on it; I'm certain that the players aren't out there dumping games. The players are playing their hearts out.

    But... Dantoni, under instruction from Mitch or whoever, could tweak the team and take the foot off the gas. Here's a few things they could easily do:

    1. Insert suboptimal lineups for certain situations. Of course this can backfire sometimes when, for example, Nick Young suddenly starts shutting down Lebron. But usually it will just quietly take us out of games.

    2. Use a tempo and defensive schemes that will allow us to score a lot of points but more or less insure that we lose 90% of games. This could take the form of perimeter defending and letting the ball go inside to a higher percentage scorer closer to the hoop. So, same amount of shots, but teams hit a higher percentage. This allows players to run around and score a ton of points and play their hearts out, but with just a few tweaks here and there the extra percentages of offensive expectation consistently give the team something like a .10 point per possession advantage, which proves insurmountable in most games.

    I'm not claiming to know exactly where these unbalanced lines in the defensive schemes are, exactly, however I'm reasonably sure that Dantoni could roll out a team tomorrow that would finish the season at a .500+ pace very easily.

    3. Don't bring in the players that would fix the real holes. For instance, defensive rebounder/defender rough-rider type dudes on ten day contracts. Those kind of players, who wouldn't have to be fantastically skilled or talented, would provide a perfect counterbalance to the splashy 3-point perimeter Dantoni game. Instead, we use a Pau, who actually slows down the offense and is about 10 percentage points off of what you'd want there AND is a defensive sieve and easily boxed out most of the time.

    I'm reasonably sure that you could give Dantoni one week and he could bring in a couple pogo stick hardnosed rebounder type guys and have them running the floor and defending like beasts, using his Pete Carroll "play to your strengths" kind of coaching strategy. The fact that we have an older obsolete Pau and a complete retread/discard Kaman running around out there should tell you everything you need to know.
    Good post.

    Something else I've noticed here is that there are a number of posters who arent grasping the concept of the salary cap, luxury tax, and the effects they have on the team as constructed and on the team moving forward.

    Kobe, Pau, and Nash took up just shy of $60 million this season. With the original idea of re-shaping the team this summer, it was/is important to have the full MLE available for us to use in free agency. This completely depends on not being labeled a "repeat offender" at being over the luxury tax threshold. Bearing that in mind, the Lakers had to come up with 11 other players with only $8 million to spend before stepping on that trip wire.

    What quality of athlete did you all expect to get for minimum dollars? Those of you who think Kobe Bryant is the greatest thing since sliced bread are finding it impossible to come to terms with the fact that great players A) want to be paid for their skills, and B) dont want to be Kobe's sidekick. If you want to be completely frank and honest, Mitch and coach D'Antoni did a great job at assembling a team this season who would play for the money being offered, and brought some degree of talent into the picture.

    That being said, neither Mike D'Antoni or Kurt Rambis could control the injury situation on this team. With the active roster and starting lineups being different each and every game, how in the world would you.....could you....install and coach team defense? The personnel simply isnt there to do it with.

    Now that Kobe has taken up a large portion of our purchasing power for the summer, next season isnt going to be much better than this season....at best. If we can get some sort of inside presence to build a defense around, then yeah....we can hold Rambis accountable. Until then....just be glad we have enough healthy players to put a team on the floor.

  12. #12
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    More smushie nonesense

    it is entertaining at least

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by royal bob View Post
    Good post.

    Something else I've noticed here is that there are a number of posters who arent grasping the concept of the salary cap, luxury tax, and the effects they have on the team as constructed and on the team moving forward.

    Kobe, Pau, and Nash took up just shy of $60 million this season. With the original idea of re-shaping the team this summer, it was/is important to have the full MLE available for us to use in free agency. This completely depends on not being labeled a "repeat offender" at being over the luxury tax threshold. Bearing that in mind, the Lakers had to come up with 11 other players with only $8 million to spend before stepping on that trip wire.

    What quality of athlete did you all expect to get for minimum dollars? Those of you who think Kobe Bryant is the greatest thing since sliced bread are finding it impossible to come to terms with the fact that great players A) want to be paid for their skills, and B) dont want to be Kobe's sidekick. If you want to be completely frank and honest, Mitch and coach D'Antoni did a great job at assembling a team this season who would play for the money being offered, and brought some degree of talent into the picture.

    That being said, neither Mike D'Antoni or Kurt Rambis could control the injury situation on this team. With the active roster and starting lineups being different each and every game, how in the world would you.....could you....install and coach team defense? The personnel simply isnt there to do it with.

    Now that Kobe has taken up a large portion of our purchasing power for the summer, next season isnt going to be much better than this season....at best. If we can get some sort of inside presence to build a defense around, then yeah....we can hold Rambis accountable. Until then....just be glad we have enough healthy players to put a team on the floor.
    I agree with a lot of what you say, you make great points. And I don't dislike Rambis or hold him totally accountable for the defense... I was just being kind of ironic after Magic's Tonight Show performance and all that. In any case Dantoni does have to be ultimately responsible and he doesn't shy away from that.

    You are right that they've done a decent job bringing in fresh talent at a minimal cost this year. I mean Xavier Henry and Kendall Marshall and a few of these other guys are absolute gems... it's virtually like we picked in the lottery the past three years or something. It's nice, and I appreciate a coach that is willing to take a chance on young players and put them out there to play to their strengths and get significant minutes. It's very refreshing and fun. Of course now, after last night's injury situation and all the ESPN coverage, the Lakers could lose every game for the rest of the season and no one will question it in the slightest.

    You're correct that the salary cap situation and the repeater tax situation simply can't be overestimated... and having the full MLE will allow them to really improve the team. One thing I've noticed is that media folks who talk about "ping pong balls don't win championships" underestimate just how much better a top pick will be after developing on the Lakers rather than on one of the other franchises.

    Magic and Worthy were both #1's and were beyond special. Kobe should've been a #1 and is an actual GOAT candidate. I mean we have to consider that players like Carmelo, Durant, Kyrie, Aldridge, CP3, etc etc etc, great as they are, would've been on a totally different level and won multiple championships by now had they been drafted by the Lakers. And we could say that about a lot of players. So when we evaluate lottery picks and championships overall, we shouldn't look at the entire league we should look at what the Lakers are able to do with one of those picks.

  14. #14
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    Rambis is just there for insurance. Pringle's system foes not preach defense. Besides that this team is not build for a defensive coach. Gasol is our center and Kelly our new pf!

  15. #15
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    Is Rambis the worst defensive coach in Laker history?

    Rambis is not a good coach, and with dumbtoni the helm even worst.

    "Killer Instinct"

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