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  1. #1
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    Does Jimmy really get buckets?

    I was just wondering is anybody else concerned about his fg% and his 3pt%, and is he our answer at the 2 spot, like alot of us hoped? With the 35 mpg, he is getting now, his numbers seem a little below average to me.

  2. #2
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    37/28/78 is pretty bad. Buckets is plural and Butler averages 3.7 FGM a game, so that would be buckets.

    Butler is overrated by Bulls fans; especially people who project him out as a long term SF; where he is a minus player.

    If Butler can't get to 40% from beyond the arch he shouldn't start.

  3. #3
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    I agree. I think he's still starter quality for the Bulls cuz his D is incredible but he doesn't look for his shot and he's very streaky. Snell's upside appears to be much higher

  4. #4
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    Him playing injuried I think is effecting him , he's has shown to be a better player and more aggressive than this in the past . So I'm not worried

  5. #5
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    Does Jimmy really get buckets?

    Jimmy is the perfect 6th man IMO. Great defense and occasional scoring. Can play two positions well and guard anyone on the floor. Not that expensive and should never see more than about 8-10 million a year

  6. #6
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    Look I get this thread because Jimmy's been playing awful lately. But c'mon, Butler's played only 28 games this season. I can't recall the last time a player who is so efficient going through such an inefficient spell, so i'm going to chalk that up to two things: he's hurt more than we think and more importantly it's a small sample size.

    A ton of his numbers are low. Even his rebounding rates are low. People who don't think Butler can be or should be a starter on this team will be pleasantly surprised and will gladly eat crow once this rough patch ends. Also to czman's comment about Butler not being able to start unless he shoots 40% from deep... why? What if he shoots 38%? He should sit on the bench? What if he shoots 36% from deep but has a ts% of 57% on a 20usg%?

    I don't like putting a single statistical percentage next to someone to determine their ability to start.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by czman View Post
    Butler is overrated by Bulls fans; especially people who project him out as a long term SF; where he is a minus player.
    And you got this from? The whopping 3% of the teams' minutes he's played there this year? This is just a false comment, considering he's actually a top 30 player in Simple Ratings (+5.3) this year, top 25 in net production (+6.2), and #1 in opponent production.

    And last year he was much better at SF and played the majority of his minutes there, while still being in the upper tier of the aforementioned categories.

    This is also from someone who does think Butler has been overrated on here (as well as Snell).


    If Butler can't get to 40% from beyond the arch he shouldn't start.


    What????
    Last edited by kingbrentg; 01-24-2014 at 03:40 PM.

  8. #8
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    Bulls forum say the darnest things would be an amazing show.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shammyguy3 View Post
    Look I get this thread because Jimmy's been playing awful lately. But c'mon, Butler's played only 28 games this season. I can't recall the last time a player who is so efficient going through such an inefficient spell, so i'm going to chalk that up to two things: he's hurt more than we think and more importantly it's a small sample size.

    A ton of his numbers are low. Even his rebounding rates are low. People who don't think Butler can be or should be a starter on this team will be pleasantly surprised and will gladly eat crow once this rough patch ends. Also to czman's comment about Butler not being able to start unless he shoots 40% from deep... why? What if he shoots 38%? He should sit on the bench? What if he shoots 36% from deep but has a ts% of 57% on a 20usg%?

    I don't like putting a single statistical percentage next to someone to determine their ability to start.
    I get what youre saying and I love JB, but my concern is couldn't you also chalk up last year as a "small sample size" as well? I hope its the injuries and hes not regressing, but he definitely has not improved offensively this season and it is starting to concern me mildly

  10. #10
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    Yeah you could definitely say that last year was also a small sample size. But he did play in all 82 games in the regular season (26mpg) and all 12 games in the playoffs (41mpg). That's a total of 94 games and 2,624 minutes last season. This year he's had 28 games and 984 minutes, or 26% the number of games from last year and 37.5% of the minutes from last year.

    Jimmy's production going forward is far closer to last year's statistical output than thus far this season. Imo it should be about a 56ts% on a 20usg% and a 110 ORtg with exceptional defense.
    Last edited by Shammyguy3; 01-24-2014 at 06:16 PM.

  11. #11
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    You tell them shammy!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingbrentg View Post
    And you got this from? The whopping 3% of the teams' minutes he's played there this year? This is just a false comment, considering he's actually a top 30 player in Simple Ratings (+5.3) this year, top 25 in net production (+6.2), and #1 in opponent production.

    And last year he was much better at SF and played the majority of his minutes there, while still being in the upper tier of the aforementioned categories.

    This is also from someone who does think Butler has been overrated on here (as well as Snell).






    What????
    Well said, man. I think Snell is overrated on here too. Butler is a tad as well but most fans overrate their own players. I'm glad I'm not the only one not jumping on the Snell train. I think he'll be productive but there's still a lot of question marks.
    Last edited by KG2TB; 01-26-2014 at 03:46 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingbrentg View Post
    And you got this from? The whopping 3% of the teams' minutes he's played there this year? This is just a false comment, considering he's actually a top 30 player in Simple Ratings (+5.3) this year, top 25 in net production (+6.2), and #1 in opponent production.

    And last year he was much better at SF and played the majority of his minutes there, while still being in the upper tier of the aforementioned categories.

    This is also from someone who does think Butler has been overrated on here (as well as Snell).






    What????
    Butler the last 3 seasons (per 48 minutes):
    11-12 (SG) Offense EFG: 552 Reb: 8.2 Ast: 2.1 TO: 2.3 Pts:16.9 Per:17.9
    11-12 (SF) Offense EFG: 210 Reb: 6.2 Ast: 1.5 TO: 3.3 Pts:10.6 Per:3.2

    11-12 (SG) Defense EFG: 409 Reb: 3.6 Ast: 2.7 TO: 2.5 Pts:17.1 Per:7.6
    11-12 (SF) Defense EFG: 466 Reb: 6.2 Ast: 2.2 TO: 4 Pts:20.1 Per: 11.4

    11-12 (SG) Difference EFG: 143 Reb: 4.7 Ast: -.6 TO: 2.3 Pts:-0.2 Per: 10.3
    11-12 (SF) Difference EFG: -256 Reb: 0 Ast: -.7 TO: 2.3 Pts:-9.5 Per: -7.2

    12-13 (SG) Offense EFG: 479 Reb: 6.7 Ast: 2.7 TO: 1.9 Pts:16 Per:13.4
    12-13 (SF) Offense EFG: 514 Reb: 7.6 Ast: 2.6 TO: 1.3 Pts:15.5 Per:16.4

    12-13 (SG) Defense EFG: 427 Reb: 5.2 Ast: 2.7 TO: 3.5 Pts:14.8 Per: 7
    12-13 (SF) Defense EFG: 486 Reb: 7.4 Ast: 2.2 TO: 2.5 Pts:16.1 Per: 12.7

    12-13 (SG) Difference EFG: 052 Reb: 1.5 Ast: -.6 TO: 1.4 Pts: 1.2 Per: 6.4
    12-13 (SF) Difference EFG: 028 Reb: 0.3 Ast: -.7 TO: 0.8 Pts: -.6 Per: 3.8

    13-14 (SG) Offense EFG: 415 Reb: 6.1 Ast: 3 TO: 2 Pts:16.1 Per: 13.3
    13-14 (SF) Offense EFG: 333 Reb: 4.7 Ast: 2 TO: 4 Pts:13.5 Per: 14.8

    13-14 (SG) Defense EFG: 439 Reb: 5.2 Ast: 4.2 TO: 3.7 Pts:17.6 Per: 10
    13-14 (SF) Defense EFG: 486 Reb: 10.8 Ast: 2.7 TO: 2 Pts:31.6 Per: 24.1

    13-14 (SG) Difference EFG: -025 Reb: -.9 Ast: -1.2 TO: 2.3 Pts:-1.5 Per: 3.3
    13-14 (SF) Difference EFG: -152 Reb: -6.1 Ast: -.7 TO: 2.3 Pts:-18.2 Per: -19.3

    Bulls allowed eFG per season:
    11-12: 450
    12-13: 477
    13-14: 471

    +/- eFG vs team by position:
    SG
    11-12: -041
    12-13: -050
    13-14: -031

    SF
    11-12: 016
    12-13: 009
    13-14: 015

    So at the SG he is allows a lower than team eFG and the SF he allows a higher than team eFG.

    His differentials for the last 3 seasons are all better at the SG. He has shown himself to be a minus player at the SF. We have 3 seasons of data. I see no data in this that makes me think he can be a starter at the SF on a team that has any chance at a ring.

    Butler is just too small to play the SF well. He is not tall enough or long enough.

    As far as the 40%+ from the 3. That is what he needs to do. He is not good enough off the dribble. If he can shoot 44% from beyond the arc he can use pump fakes off kick outs to get into the paint. He also allows the team to space the floor. If he is shooting below 40% he is not going to space the floor and not going to get well disciplined playoff teams to fly by him allowing him to get to the basket.

  14. #14
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    Jimmy Butler is not little in height , he's nearly 6'8 , That's the average nearly of SF almost . Most PF's are 6'9 - 6'11

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stunnerko123 View Post
    Jimmy Butler is not little in height , he's nearly 6'8 , That's the average nearly of SF almost . Most PF's are 6'9 - 6'11
    pre-draft measurements.

    Butler: height w/o shoes 6'6.25" wingspan 6'8" standing reach 8'5"

    Deng: height w/o shoes 6'7" wingspan 7'.5" standing reach 9'.5"

    Rudy Gay: height w/o shoes 6'7" wingspan 7'3" standing reach 8'11.20"

    At 6'6" and normal arms he is a 2. He is not a 3 in the NBA. He does not have the length/weight/height for the 3. He is a plus at the SG and a negative at the SF.

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