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  1. #1
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    Rebuild Assets Complete: Danny the Mad Genius!!!!

    My Scenario:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l6xmfdv

    Orl gets - Rondo & maybe Hawks 1st (via brooklyn)

    Utah gets - Green + Bass

    Bos get - Utah 1st + Orl 1st with J.Nelson, M.Williams & B.Rush (to match salaries)

    Boston Draft Rebuild Assets: 2014

    Bos - 1st
    Orl - 1st
    Utah - 1st
    Atl or Brooklyn - 1st (if not traded w/rondo)
    Phil - 1st (if not a lottery, will become two 2nd rnd picks) (via miami)

    Plus Other: First round draft picks

    2015 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
    2016 first round draft pick from Brooklyn
    2017 first round draft pick from Brooklyn
    2018 first round draft pick from Brooklyn

    Plus Other: Second round draft picks

    2014 second round draft pick to Dallas
    2015 second round draft pick from Sacramento
    2016 second round draft pick from Miami
    2016 second round draft pick to Memphis
    2017 second round draft pick from Sacramento
    2017 second round draft pick to Brooklyn

    WOW.....8 to 9 Future 1st Round Picks & 6 to 8 Future 2nd Round Picks & 29.1 mil in expiring contracts (via humphries, bradley, bayless, williams, rush).

    Wiggins, Parker & Embiid drafted 1 2 3 all in green 2014.

    Pressey (or Bradley if he's resigned) - Wiggins - Parker - Sully or Olynyk - Embiid

    Danny the Mad Genius!!!!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by esb View Post
    Yeah this would never happen. 1 Because it's insane and too complicated, and I don't see why most of those teams besides the C's make that deal and 2don't you think the teams would realize that the C's would be trying to monopolize the draft this year? and 3 trusting all 3 of those rookies to bring us back to contention status is very risky.

  3. #3
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    Geez... I love complex problems/logic but... too many moving pieces. Could you just extract a trade proposal and leave off all the extras - or post a separate post regarding the current draft holdings?

    Thanks


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  4. #4
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    Utah trades away its first round pick and get Green and Bass only?

  5. #5
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    My first thought is that DAnny, this week, once again stated his belief that this draft was not as good as people are making it out to be. I believe he is correct in the sense that not all those projected to be in the draft will come out AND that there does not seem to be a truly great player in the draft - I think there are perhaps 5 that could ascend to that status with continued development.

    Working on that premise, I am not sure DAnny is interested in accumulating more 1st round picks for this draft although your scenario has them getting top 3 picks. I think Boston would need to exchange their current 1st rounders with Orlando and Utah in addition to the players before either team would consider giving up a top 3 pick.

    You always want to win the trade. In this case the C's are trading away 3 of their best veteran players, including their only all-star, in exchange for a couple of expiring contracts and a couple of 1st round picks albeit top 3 picks. That's a clear indication you intend a long-term rebuild. Rookies are not going to turn things around in short order unless their is a sound veteran presence already present. What you suggest leaves Wallace, maybe Bradley if he is resigned and ... Sully as the veteran presence on the C's? To me that says it will be at least 2016-17 before this team is ready to compete for another banner. It can get done a bit quicker than that, imo.
    Current
    Rajon Rondo, Phil Pressey
    Jerryd Bayless, Chris Babb
    Jeff Green, Chris Johnson
    Brandon Bass, Jared Sullinger
    Kris Humphries, Kelly Olynyk, Joel Anthony

    Injured
    Avery Bradley
    Gerald Wallace
    Keith Bogans
    Victor Faverani

    Colton Iverson (stashed overseas)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opalmerr View Post
    My first thought is that DAnny, this week, once again stated his belief that this draft was not as good as people are making it out to be. I believe he is correct in the sense that not all those projected to be in the draft will come out AND that there does not seem to be a truly great player in the draft - I think there are perhaps 5 that could ascend to that status with continued development.

    Working on that premise, I am not sure DAnny is interested in accumulating more 1st round picks for this draft although your scenario has them getting top 3 picks. I think Boston would need to exchange their current 1st rounders with Orlando and Utah in addition to the players before either team would consider giving up a top 3 pick.

    You always want to win the trade. In this case the C's are trading away 3 of their best veteran players, including their only all-star, in exchange for a couple of expiring contracts and a couple of 1st round picks albeit top 3 picks. That's a clear indication you intend a long-term rebuild. Rookies are not going to turn things around in short order unless their is a sound veteran presence already present. What you suggest leaves Wallace, maybe Bradley if he is resigned and ... Sully as the veteran presence on the C's? To me that says it will be at least 2016-17 before this team is ready to compete for another banner. It can get done a bit quicker than that, imo.
    OKC says hello!!!!!!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxRTattedOnMe View Post
    OKC says hello!!!!!!
    ???

    Durant's first year they went 23-59.
    Current
    Rajon Rondo, Phil Pressey
    Jerryd Bayless, Chris Babb
    Jeff Green, Chris Johnson
    Brandon Bass, Jared Sullinger
    Kris Humphries, Kelly Olynyk, Joel Anthony

    Injured
    Avery Bradley
    Gerald Wallace
    Keith Bogans
    Victor Faverani

    Colton Iverson (stashed overseas)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opalmerr View Post
    My first thought is that DAnny, this week, once again stated his belief that this draft was not as good as people are making it out to be. I believe he is correct in the sense that not all those projected to be in the draft will come out AND that there does not seem to be a truly great player in the draft - I think there are perhaps 5 that could ascend to that status with continued development.

    Working on that premise, I am not sure DAnny is interested in accumulating more 1st round picks for this draft although your scenario has them getting top 3 picks. I think Boston would need to exchange their current 1st rounders with Orlando and Utah in addition to the players before either team would consider giving up a top 3 pick.

    You always want to win the trade. In this case the C's are trading away 3 of their best veteran players, including their only all-star, in exchange for a couple of expiring contracts and a couple of 1st round picks albeit top 3 picks. That's a clear indication you intend a long-term rebuild. Rookies are not going to turn things around in short order unless their is a sound veteran presence already present. What you suggest leaves Wallace, maybe Bradley if he is resigned and ... Sully as the veteran presence on the C's? To me that says it will be at least 2016-17 before this team is ready to compete for another banner. It can get done a bit quicker than that, imo.
    Sign LeBron, and this team is in the finals. Start Donald Duck at center - who cares?!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradyoverrated View Post
    Sign LeBron, and this team is in the finals. Start Donald Duck at center - who cares?!
    Well, yeah.

    And if we are going to dream, we might as well dream BIG.
    Current
    Rajon Rondo, Phil Pressey
    Jerryd Bayless, Chris Babb
    Jeff Green, Chris Johnson
    Brandon Bass, Jared Sullinger
    Kris Humphries, Kelly Olynyk, Joel Anthony

    Injured
    Avery Bradley
    Gerald Wallace
    Keith Bogans
    Victor Faverani

    Colton Iverson (stashed overseas)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opalmerr View Post
    My first thought is that DAnny, this week, once again stated his belief that this draft was not as good as people are making it out to be. I believe he is correct in the sense that not all those projected to be in the draft will come out AND that there does not seem to be a truly great player in the draft - I think there are perhaps 5 that could ascend to that status with continued development.

    Working on that premise, I am not sure DAnny is interested in accumulating more 1st round picks for this draft although your scenario has them getting top 3 picks. I think Boston would need to exchange their current 1st rounders with Orlando and Utah in addition to the players before either team would consider giving up a top 3 pick.

    You always want to win the trade. In this case the C's are trading away 3 of their best veteran players, including their only all-star, in exchange for a couple of expiring contracts and a couple of 1st round picks albeit top 3 picks. That's a clear indication you intend a long-term rebuild. Rookies are not going to turn things around in short order unless their is a sound veteran presence already present. What you suggest leaves Wallace, maybe Bradley if he is resigned and ... Sully as the veteran presence on the C's? To me that says it will be at least 2016-17 before this team is ready to compete for another banner. It can get done a bit quicker than that, imo.
    I don't care if the rebuild takes 2 or 4 years. The important thing is to just do it properly.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Opalmerr View Post
    ???

    Durant's first year they went 23-59.
    I'll take 23 wins next year if we score the "Durant" of this draft. OKC might well have a title or two if they hadn't made the foolish foolish deal for Perkins.

    Outside of the illogic that surrounds Rondo, the quality of Perkins at the time of the deal and since is the next most disordered logic of the average Celts fan. DA made a great deal, Doc didn't use the players he got well enough, and Rondo ruined that season with his 15 game crying jag after Perk was dealt, and those new guys WERE NOT INTEGRATED as they should have been due to Rondo's emotional melt down, and we lost our #1 seeding we had.

    As for Perk. He played 12 of 55 games for us before the deal and he was awful. He went to OKC missed 12 more games for them and then was dominated in every game he played in the playoffs. He signed a very large extension which caused them not to be able to resign Hardin. The fact is once a 250 lb NBA player has significant knee problems, they never recover, he never has. Besides he was a creation of KG, the minute KG wasn't next to him, he regressed to being one of the worst starting centers of the past 5 years. They also took Nate Robinson and his big contract which allowed us to sign Bass. Nate was so bad back then that OKC cut him the following year and ate $4.5M when they cut him. Let's see Hardin or Nate/Perk - d'oh.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 01-27-2014 at 11:30 AM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  12. #12
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    This is one of the best analysis of this time period I have read, and word for word what I shout at to my friends when they ask what happened. While we won that trade and I was very happy with it from day 1, Rondo's tailspin really hurt what we "could" have done. But getting rid of Perkins was a no-brainer. I don't know how other GMs thought he would be anywhere near as efficient without a KG beside him.

    As for this thread, Durant was on his own that first year so it isn't an equal comparison, but if anyone wouldn't go through a couple rebuild years for a Durant level player then I don't know what you want. OKC basically built a team in 3 drafts, and this crazy trade scenario is looking at 3 impact players of the same draft. Same type of build. I don't think this ever happens, but same type of build.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    I'll take 23 wins next year if we score the "Durant" of this draft. OKC might well have a title or two if they hadn't made the foolish foolish deal for Perkins.

    Outside of the illogic that surrounds Rondo, the quality of Perkins at the time of the deal and since is the next most disordered logic of the average Celts fan. DA made a great deal, Doc didn't use the players he got well enough, and Rondo ruined that season with his 15 game crying jag after Perk was dealt, and those new guys WERE NOT INTEGRATED as they should have been due to Rondo's emotional melt down, and we lost our #1 seeding we had.

    As for Perk. He played 12 of 55 games for us before the deal and he was awful. He went to OKC missed 12 more games for them and then was dominated in every game he played in the playoffs. He signed a very large extension which caused them not to be able to resign Hardin. The fact is once a 250 lb NBA player has significant knee problems, they never recover, he never has. Besides he was a creation of KG, the minute KG wasn't next to him, he regressed to being one of the worst starting centers of the past 5 years. They also took Nate Robinson and his big contract which allowed us to sign Bass. Nate was so bad back then that OKC cut him the following year and ate $4.5M when they cut him. Let's see Hardin or Nate/Perk - d'oh.

  13. #13
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    Personally I think the OKC trade was a shitswap...the big what if to me tho is what if we got harden instead??(reports around that trade were that's who Danny was aiming for)

  14. #14
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    What killed our value in that trade was we lost Jeff Green in the year (for the complete year) we really needed him. The following year he took a long time to work his way back (as expected), and then the big 3 who he was meant to compliment was gone. Things could have gone much differently that was ruined by factors outside the trade. As for Jeff Green now, I still think he is a great piece. Not a piece you can't move in the right deal, but also not a piece that can't work very well moving forward if he stays. He can't be looked at as your #1 option, and he isn't paid that way.

    As for Harden, yes that is who Danny was after as option #1, but it was never an option in OKCs eyes who at that time didn't have any plans of not resigning Harden a season later. Perkins would have never gotten Harden. Green was the piece in the way of Harden at the time.



    Quote Originally Posted by CELTICS4LYFE View Post
    Personally I think the OKC trade was a shitswap...the big what if to me tho is what if we got harden instead??(reports around that trade were that's who Danny was aiming for)

  15. #15
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    Green was expendable because OKC had in its hands a replacement that was superior in every way.

    OKC needed a Center that was tough and certainly overestimated Perk w/o KG, and also underestimated the damage to his knees, his awful hands, and his size with his declining defensive range.

    If OKC had been patient it could have come up with a more capable center that was going to be less of a cap hit then Perkins was (maniac extension: 4/$34.8M).

    Also OKC took the totally overpaid Nate off our hands and gave in return (to some extent) Krstic who was a terrific offensive center, that was expiring and took his game back to Europe. If Krstic hadn't hurt his knee twice he would have played like his first 8-9 games and his last 2 games pretty much the who time. He certainly outplayed Perkins. The problem was our other two Centers did nothing and next to nothing in the playoffs.

    With Krstic and Green expiring at the end of 2011, OKC made a cardinal mistake in bringing in Perkins (and extending him with a 4 year/$34.8M deal), and carrying Nate whom they cut and had to eat that money and replace that roster spot.

    Of couse OKC coughed up a 1st that turned out to be useless to us, but with their needs maybe they would have gotten something out of that.

    Rondo as the PG and self appointed offensive director did much less then possible to bring those guys in. Doc has always struggled making something out of mid season additions. I think it's 1-2 guys out of maybe close to two dozen while he was here that they actually got something out of.
    Last edited by bagwell368; 01-28-2014 at 01:55 PM.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

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