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  1. #1
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    We need to dump a lot of those HOF QB's

    Bradshaw played with 8 other HOFers, obviously he was just a game manager.

    Joe Namath had a stud running game with powerhouse Matt Snell and the speedy Emerson Boozer and a stud D.

    Bob Griese had the sleek Paul Warfield, the bullish Larry Csonka and the mercurious one Mercury Morris now add....THE KILLER BEES. Griese an obvious....game manager.

    Bart Starr had Jim Taylor a brusier and ..The Golden Boy Paul Hornung in his backfield, now add six other HOFers, yep...game manager.

    The great Johhny Unitas was throwing to the greatest receiver ever up to that point, Ray Berry and the greatest TE ever up to that time John Mackey and he had the first great receiving running back Lenny Moore....all of them in the HOF, yep Unitas had to be a game manager.

    What would Joe Montana have done in another system? Same with Steve Young. Where's Troy Aikman without Emimitt, Jay and Michael? Where's Peyton without Edgerrin, Reggie and Marvin? How does Kurt have ...The Greatest Show on Turf...without Bruce, Holt and Faulk?

    Where 's Willie Totten at Mississippi Valley State without Jerry Rice?

    Where's Dan without Duper and Clayton?

    Where;s Bill without Tom?

    A QB can't help what team he plays on, all he can do is try and make it work and win. That is all that really matters in pro sports. All this.....well if he played for....well he doesn;'t have a......are you kidding me? It is what it is you either make it work or you don't.

    Russell Wilson has taken the situation he had no choice in and did all he could do to make it work and now here he is on the brink of a Superbowl Championship Belt. All this....yes, but he has a running back, he has a defense.......oh hell yes he;s the very first. You guys are cracking me up.
    Last edited by CCRider; 01-22-2014 at 10:54 PM.

  2. #2
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    Are you really comparing Russell Wilson to Hall of Fame quarterbacks?
    What about Jim Mcmahon? Trent Dilfer? Brad Johnson?

  3. #3
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    CC I have a serious question for you. Just looking at the regular season, do you think Nick Foles was a better QB than Peyton Manning this season?

    Nick Foles has the advantage over Peyton in TD%, INT%, YPA, and QB rating. Those are basically 4 of the 5 most important stats that people like to use for a quick evaluation of a QB. Peyton only leads Foles in completion%. Winning percentage for the 2 QBs was negligible (.800 vs. .8125) so not much difference there either. Foles also added some value with his legs (200+ yards) and Peyton had negative value with his legs... running for -31 yards.

    If Foles threw the ball as much as Manning did he would have had the NFL record for passing TDs and passing yards in a single season while only throwing 4 interceptions on the year. So basically, Foles had arguably the greatest QB season of all time this year.

    Will Foles get snubbed for the MVP award?
    Last edited by FortDetroit; 01-22-2014 at 11:44 PM.
    2014 Adopt-A-Lion: Golden Tate

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    Are you really comparing Russell Wilson to Hall of Fame quarterbacks?
    What about Jim Mcmahon? Trent Dilfer? Brad Johnson?
    Look at those three first two seasons compared to RW's, then take any QB above I mentioned and do the same thing. This is about a young guy being about as successful in his short career in all facets of the game as anyone has ever been.....ever.

    To have to listen to this silliness...."well if he didn;'t have THE BEAST and the baddest defense on the planet he'd just be..." We can say that about all those I mentioned above, which is the point.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortDetroit View Post
    CC I have a serious question for you. Just looking at the regular season, do you think Nick Foles was a better QB than Peyton Manning this season?

    Nick Foles has the advantage over Peyton in TD%, INT%, YPA, and QB rating. Those are basically 4 of the 5 most important stats that people like to use for a quick evaluation of a QB. Peyton only leads Foles in completion%. Winning percentage for the 2 QBs was negligible (.800 vs. .8125) so not much difference there either. Foles also added some value with his legs (200+ yards) and Peyton had negative value with his legs... running for -31 yards.

    Will Foles get snubbed for the MVP award?
    The most important...stat...when talking QB's is that completion %. That means everything. Is the guy completing his passes?

    Nick Foles had a great season but it was Manning completing more of his throws which is huge.


    I started this thread to kick back with my tight buddy Bud Weiser and talk some football. Son just called he has a flat and no jack (kids!). Gotta go!
    Last edited by CCRider; 01-22-2014 at 11:50 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCRider View Post
    The most important...stat...when talking QB's is that completion %. That means everything. Is the guy completing his passes?

    Nick Foles had a great season but it was Manning completing more of his throws which is huge.
    So you also believe Josh McCown (66.5%) had a better season than Russell Wilson (63.1%) did? Again, regular season only.

    Matt Ryan, Brees, Rivers, Big Ben, Foles, Romo, Carson Palmer, Ponder...all better than Wilson too this reg season...right?
    2014 Adopt-A-Lion: Golden Tate

  7. #7
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    I'm sure we (PSD) will be able to dump them.

  8. #8
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    You do make a great point actually.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateyB24:27852998
    You do make a great point actually.
    Agreed. Bradshaw is the most overrated qb in NFL history IMO.
    Props to VCU4LIFEGOVIKS for the sig

  10. #10
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    Matt Cassel made it work in NE. How about now?

  11. #11
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    Funniest part "where is bill without tom" assuming you mean "where is bill belichik without tom brady" after listing all the great players people played with.

    I see what you are and what you're trying to do.
    "If you find yourself in the majority, rethink your position" - Mark Twain

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBleedPurple View Post
    Agreed. Bradshaw is the most overrated qb in NFL history IMO.
    Exquisite bull****. If anything, he's underrated.

    No, he was not a good QB his first four seasons, but when the switch flipped in 1974, he played as well as any QB in the NFL. Between 1974 and 1982, he threw 171 TD passes and 137 INTs, which is an excellent ratio for the time. He led the NFL in yards per attempt in 1977 and 1978, yards per completion in 1980, and TD passes and TD percentage in 1978 and 1982. His yards per attempt was at least 10% above the league average in 1975, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981 and 1982. His TD percentage was at least 10% above the league average in 1973, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981 and 1982. His passer rating was at least 10% above the league average in 1975, 1978, 1979, 1981 and 1982.

    Bradshaw dominated the NFL in 1978. Here's his list of accolades that season:


    - NFL MVP
    - Bert Bell Award
    - Starting QB for the AFC in the Pro Bowl
    - AP First-Team All-Pro QB
    - Super Bowl XIII MVP


    In fact, he became the first QB in Super Bowl history to throw for 300 yards and four TD passes in a game. The 1978 season was his magnum opus. He was also excellent in 1979, when he was named the AP Second-Team All-Pro QB and the Super Bowl XIV MVP, in which set the Super Bowl record for the highest YPA in a game. (That record still stands.) In fact, he had triple-digit passer ratings in three of the four Super Bowls he played in, and his lowest rating was 90.9. "Bubububububut Bradshaw only went to three Pro Bowls!" Great, Ray Nitschke was a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer, and he only went to one.

    By the way, Bradshaw was the only QB left in the NFL calling all his own plays by the late 1970's. People claim that Roger Staubach, Fran Tarkenton and Ken Stabler were all better than Bradshaw, but those bastards all had offensive coordinators or assistants making their jobs easier. In fact, Staubach was the original "system" QB, playing in a system of offense designed by Tom Landry, and excelling at throwing the ball where the coaches told him to. Tarkenton had an offensive coordinator named Jerry Burns. Stabler was assisted by Tom Flores, a former QB, and he also got to throw to Hall-of-Famer Fred Biletnikoff. (And despite all that, he threw more INTs than TDs in his career.) Meanwhile, Bradshaw had a much higher level of responsibility in his offense than any of them, and Sports Illustrated even said so in their December 18, 1978 issue:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sports Illustrated
    Yes, he is a smart quarterback, his unfortunate image to the contrary. Although he has been picking NFL defenses to pieces all year, he remains, in the eyes of the ignorant, "dumb." Bradshaw calls all of his own plays, often brilliantly. Roger Staubach, supposedly a clever quarterback, calls almost none of his. Bradshaw knows his enemies as well as [Nazi General Erwin] Rommel knew his. When the 49ers foolishly tried to blitz him in November, he deftly threw three touchdown passes. He engineered a masterly 11-play, 80-yard drive against Houston that transformed a bitter defensive struggle into a clear-cut Steelers victory. Bradshaw is nobody's fool.
    Bradshaw was the de facto offensive coordinator for his team, unlike those other QBs. On top of that, Bradshaw had just as many league MVP awards and First- and Second-Team All-Pro selections as Tarkenton and Stabler, and more than Staubach, who had none of the above. "Bubububububut Bradshaw went to fewer Pro Bowls than any of them!" Great, remember what I said about the great Ray Nitschke?

    Furthermore, Bradshaw was 6-2 against all those QBs in the post-season. And let's not pretend that any of those other QBs were on mediocre teams either; the Cowboys and the Vikings didn't have defenses nicknamed "Doomsday" and the "Purple People Eaters" for nothing. The Raiders had some intimidating defenses of their own too. As for the "Steel Curtain," you know how many times they ranked #1 in points allowed? Twice. Let's not make them out to be better than they were in order to make Bradshaw out to be worse than he was. For as poorly as he played from 1970 through 1973, he played that brilliantly from 1974 through 1982, and hauled in some prestigious accolades in the process.

    "Overrated" my ***.
    "...more talking went on between us all until [Roethlisberger and his entourage] left the bar. Then I seperated with [name redacted] and the other girls and went with another group, and everything else happened, and I was told about it this morning and felt I needed to give my statement. Looking back and hearing all of the details, it seems to me that it was a set-up, and so I think this needed to be told."

    -Victoria Garofalo, Zeta Tau Alpha sorority sister, in a statement to the GBI

  13. #13
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    Where would any player be without a "system" and a surrounding cast? It would be some school yard rubbish, every man for himself type of chaos. I hate the use of "system". Every team has a game plan, thus it would make every player a "system" player.

  14. #14
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    Another gem.

    Most of those QB's played 30 years ago. Well before an evolved passing game. QB's put up 5000 yards every year now. When Starr starting winning titles 2 ****ing thousand was a decent benchmark. Every QB was a game manager because almost every single team was run first. Get a clue.

    Secondly, Willie Totten? What the eff does MVSU QB have to do with anything? Nobody rides his nuts. Good for you, nice name drop. You know who the QB when Rice was breaking records was. Has NOTHING to do with this conversation.

    Dan without Duper or Clayton? I don't know I guess, much like your above point.... Where is every single player ever without other good players on their team. Man. It's like we've said Russell Wilson is the FIRST PERSON TO HAVE GOOD PLAYERS ON HIS ROSTER.


    There's a massive distinction between riding Wilson's jock after two years and between guys like Aikman, Montana, Warner, Peyton, Bradshaw. You know what it is? They had long extended periods of success. They didn't play two years and then have someone act like because of their winning %age that they were HOF material.

    I highly doubt Russell Wilson falls of the edge of the Earth but it wouldn't surprise me if he's ceiling isn't incredibly high and he stays a middling top 10 QB for his career. It's incredibly possible. You're willing to go all out to talk about Wilson, even comparing him to HOF QBs but when someone points out how little he's doing for his team in the playoffs compared to EVERY other QB, it goes in one ear and out the other. I swear if you didn't like Wilson, you would easily use that against him, but you're just a fan for whatever reason.

  15. #15
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    All you did was prove it takes a team to win a title and not that those are great QB's.....while I agree a guy like Aikman and Greise (and the biggest ever in Brady) by the greatness around them, a great QB can happen to have great talent around them.

    Unitas, Namath, and Montana are that good.
    Striving for a kinder, gentler PhillyFaninLA

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