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  1. #1
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    Should there be a change in the qualifying offer system?

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/0...medium=twitter
    Qualifying offers appear to have suppressed the market for players such as Nelson Cruz and Kendrys Morales, frustrating player representatives. Potential fixes to the system include guaranteeing that free agents receive a qualifying offer only once, or ensuring that teams signing free agents who received qualifying offers lose only draft picks and not their associated bonus-pool amounts. The current system will remain in place for another two offseasons, Rosenthal notes.
    Rosenthal brought up an interesting point imo. With the old compensation system, teams would lose certain draft picks for signing "Type A" and "Type B" FA but they were still able to possibly acquire 1st and 2nd round talent if it dropped to them in later rounds because of pre draft demands by potential draft picks. Now with the slot allotments and the penalties in going overslot throughout the draft that is more difficult to do.

    But the draft aside, 2nd tier talent seems to be having a harder time finding a market when attached with a QO and 1st/2nd round draft compensation. Teams in that protected pick range don't see the need in losing 2nd round picks/their slot allotment while still rebuilding in a lot of cases and teams who don't have the protected pick might not want to lose a 1st rounder and its slot allotment (which impacts the entirety of their next draft) for lesser FAs.

    It obviously didn't affect the Robinson Canos/Albert Pujols of the world (and players of upper echelon talent) but it does seem to have a ringing impact on guys like Stephen Drew or Ervin Santana, who could possibly make below market value after rejecting their teams respective qualifying offers. So I think it might an issue MLB wants to revisit in the next CBA with one of Rosenthal's suggestions.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-05-2014 at 04:23 AM.

  2. #2
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    Should there be a change in the qualifying offer system?

    You said it best though - it's only affecting second tier players.

    In other words, players like Stephen Drew should be smart and accept the QO. They, as well as there agent, should have some understanding of the market and how the player is perceived. As you said, someone like Cano or Pujols, it obviously does not matter if they have the QO - they're superstars. But guys like Stephen Drew? Hey, if I'm Boras, I'm thrilled about the QO and accepting it. That's $5 million more than what he got in 2013. How does Boras **** that one up?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tragedy View Post
    You said it best though - it's only affecting second tier players.

    In other words, players like Stephen Drew should be smart and accept the QO. They, as well as there agent, should have some understanding of the market and how the player is perceived. As you said, someone like Cano or Pujols, it obviously does not matter if they have the QO - they're superstars. But guys like Stephen Drew? Hey, if I'm Boras, I'm thrilled about the QO and accepting it. That's $5 million more than what he got in 2013. How does Boras **** that one up?
    Well I think Drew had a legitimate case to look for a multi year deal. The SS market was very limited in terms of quality options and he had just come off a 3 rWAR season. I think what hurt his market was the QO and the draft compensation being attached because Jhonny Peralta, who had a similar season in 2013, had no draft compensation attached and received a 4 year deal. Sure, the case can be made that Drew is injury prone but there are pretty equitable concerns about Peralta's play after the PED suspension.

    I am genuinely surprised no one has given Drew more than 1 year yet and I think the QO has certainly hurt the market for guys like Morales and Cruz as well.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-05-2014 at 04:14 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tragedy View Post
    You said it best though - it's only affecting second tier players.

    In other words, players like Stephen Drew should be smart and accept the QO. They, as well as there agent, should have some understanding of the market and how the player is perceived. As you said, someone like Cano or Pujols, it obviously does not matter if they have the QO - they're superstars. But guys like Stephen Drew? Hey, if I'm Boras, I'm thrilled about the QO and accepting it. That's $5 million more than what he got in 2013. How does Boras **** that one up?
    That is not fair to Drew.

    Drew had an outstanding year and wanted a long term contract for some safety. I don't think it is fair that the Red Sox get to set the market and decide whether he gets one year or 2-3. Drew looks more and more that he has no choice but to take a one year deal.

    There should be some change in the QO system when the agreement made in 2011 runs out in 2016. It is just not fair to players like Morales, Drew, Cruz, etc who in hindsight are really given no choice but to take the 14 mil offer.

  5. #5
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    The Q/O has not worked as it was "designed".

    One of the ideas behind it was to allow small and medium market teams to retain their free agents or, at minimum, collect a draft pick if they elected to leave.

    Here are the teams that have made the Q/O
    Yankees 6
    Red Sox 4
    Cardinals 2
    Rangers 2
    Braves 2
    Reds
    Rays
    Indians
    Mariners
    Royals
    Nationals

    *http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-...alifying-offer
    *http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...ng-offers.html

    There have been 22 qualifying offers made.
    10 of them by the Yankees and Red Sox.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by filihok View Post
    The Q/O has not worked as it was "designed".

    One of the ideas behind it was to allow small and medium market teams to retain their free agents or, at minimum, collect a draft pick if they elected to leave.

    Here are the teams that have made the Q/O
    Yankees 6
    Red Sox 4
    Cardinals 2
    Rangers 2
    Braves 2
    Reds
    Rays
    Indians
    Mariners
    Royals
    Nationals

    *http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-...alifying-offer
    *http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...ng-offers.html

    There have been 22 qualifying offers made.
    10 of them by the Yankees and Red Sox.
    We had the same issue in baseball with the Type A and B free agents


    Just making it the super elite superstars...the Cano's and Pujols' of the world (and do it like the former Type A where a team loses their first/second and the other team ends up with two picks).

  7. #7
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    Didn't they just make changes to it a couple of years ago?
    **********

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlohm1 View Post
    Didn't they just make changes to it a couple of years ago?
    They did.

    The old system :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_L...Baseball_draft

    • A Type A free agent was ranked in the top 20 percent of players at his position. A team that signed a Type A player gave its top draft pick to the club that the player left; that club also received a supplemental pick in the "sandwich" round between the first and second rounds.[32]

    • A Type B free agent was ranked below the top 20 percent but in the top 40 percent of players at his position. A team that lost a Type B player received a supplemental pick, but the signing team did not lose a pick.[32]

    To earn a compensatory pick, a free agent must have been either signed before the arbitration deadline in early December, or offered arbitration by their former team but still signed with another team.

    Compensatory picks that one team gave another via this method were the highest available pick that team had, with the exception of picks in the top half of the first round.[33] These picks were protected from being used as compensation. If a team that picked in the top half of the first draft signed a Type A free agent, they would give up their second-round pick. If a team owed two other teams draft picks via Type A free agents, the team whose departing player had a higher score got the higher-ranked pick. A team could not lose picks it earned via compensation. The post-2012 rules for this aspect of the draft are similar, except that the "Type A" and "Type B" designations no longer exist.
    My issue with the new system is it treats all qualifying offered FA equally when we know there can be certainly a disparity in talent among them. Robinson Cano is worth giving up a 1st/2nd rounder and the slot allotment whereas a guy like Stephen Drew or Nelson Cruz might not be and that could affect their markets adversely. I think that's where the change needs to be made in and among Rosenthal's suggestions.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-05-2014 at 05:20 PM.

  9. #9
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    Absolutely not, the player has to take responsibility here, if he follows the agents advice it is his choice. The Qualifier 14.1M is high enough that there is some built in security already

    If a player wishes he can wait until after the draft to sign and avoid compensation entirely.

    There should be no changes whatsoever

  10. #10
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    Guys like Lohse and Drew have the right to pursue multi-year deals, even if they aren't elite caliber free agents.

    The qualifying offer system really hurts their abilities to get the most money they can command.

  11. #11
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    I can agree with what has been said. However, it has stopped teams from paying out the *** for average players like Cruz and Morales. I know that isnt its intended use and maybe isnt super relevent, but I like that it regulates the market to some degree.

    Im sure Cruz and Morales will still get multi-year deals. They just have to be willing to take less. Maybe what they are actually worth, rather than the 4/75 that Cruz wants.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tragedy View Post
    You said it best though - it's only affecting second tier players.

    In other words, players like Stephen Drew should be smart and accept the QO. They, as well as there agent, should have some understanding of the market and how the player is perceived. As you said, someone like Cano or Pujols, it obviously does not matter if they have the QO - they're superstars. But guys like Stephen Drew? Hey, if I'm Boras, I'm thrilled about the QO and accepting it. That's $5 million more than what he got in 2013. How does Boras **** that one up?
    No to everything


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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    I can agree with what has been said. However, it has stopped teams from paying out the *** for average players like Cruz and Morales. I know that isnt its intended use and maybe isnt super relevent, but I like that it regulates the market to some degree.

    Im sure Cruz and Morales will still get multi-year deals. They just have to be willing to take less. Maybe what they are actually worth, rather than the 4/75 that Cruz wants.
    I don't think the pick affects Cruz not getting 4/75

    Nobody was going to give him that regardless

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I don't think the pick affects Cruz not getting 4/75

    Nobody was going to give him that regardless
    But I think he would get paid more without the pick attached.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  15. #15
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    I understand some of the problems, and realize some teams are extending one year qualifying offers knowing the player will more than likely turn it down just so they can get a draft pick back. It's a difficult situation as the league wants to allow all teams to retain their players or get a fair draft choice in return.
    What if instead of automatically saying that teams get a first rounder based on talent level, they were rewarded a draft pick instead based on the length of term and dollar value of the qualifying offer. For instance, the Stephen Drew situation where Boston only offered 1 year, maybe they should only get a second round pick to keep a larger number of teams interested. I dont know how they would divide the line between first and second round compensation, but there has to be a more fair way of doing it for all parties involved.

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