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  1. #1
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    Review - 2013 Personnel Moves

    Ireland's Draft GRADES BASED ON THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE TEAM THIS YEAR.

    Dion Jordan/DE/Oregon - Basically Ted Ginn on defense. Soft, tweener, drafted too early. Hope he does more in the future but that's how it stands at the end of his rookie campaign. Totally NOT worth 3rd overall and our early 2nd - at least not for THIS YEAR. Grade D-

    Jamar Taylor/CB/Boise State - nada, drafted early over a lot of better prospects, couldn't get playing time over street FAs when we had injuries to our starters. Grade D-

    Dallas Thomas/OT/Tennessee - worse than nada, couldn't play over street FAs or push for playing time on the NFL's worst OL. Grade F-

    Will Davis/CB/Utah State - nada, drafted early over a lot of better prospects, couldn't beat out street FAs when we had injuries to our starters. Grade C-

    Jelani Jenkins/LB/Florida - couldn't play over Wheeler who is the worst LB in the NFL., Grade D-

    Dion Sims/TE/Michigan State - very, very little, couldn't pass Egnew on the depth chart Grade C

    Mike Gillislee/RB/Florida - couldn't push the below average Miller or the really below average DT for playing time, Grade D

    Caleb Sturgis/K/Florida - worse than Dan Capeneter, Grade D

    Don Jones/DB/Arkansas - meh, one good STs play all year. Grade C


    Ireland's Free Agency

    Mike Wallace/WR/Steelers - got open deep plenty but apparently somebody forgot to tell Ireland that our QB can't make deep passes. Didn't fight for balls but never had before. Gave us what we paid for, paid him a mega deal. Grade B

    Brent Grimes/CB/Falcons - awesome, Grade A+

    Dannell Ellerbe/ILB/Ravens - below average, huge downgrade from Dansby, paid him way too much, Grade D

    Phillip Wheeler/OLB/Raiders - horrible, literrally the worst LB in the NFL, huge downgrade, paid him way too much, Grade F-

    Brandon Gibson/WR/Rams - incomplete b/c got injured but played well while healthy Grade B

    Dustin Keller/TE/Jets - never made it out of preseason. Grade Incomplete

    Ireland's Other Moves

    Koa Misi - meh, ok but overpaid with the extension, Grade C+
    Reshard Jones - underperformed, given too big of a contract, Grade C-
    Reggie Bush - letting him walk was huge mistake, Miller/DT were big downgrades as runners and total incompetent jokes in pass protection. Grade F
    Jake Long - letting him walk was fine given his injury history and contract demands, but replacing him with Jonathan Martin and zero insurance for Martin, when Ireland had early knowledge (before the draft) that Martin had emotional issues, that was pure negligence. Grade F- (but improved to a D+ with McKinney trade).
    Dansby/Burnett - see Ellerbe/Wheeler Grade D-
    Randy Starks - tagged, played ok, run defense really fell off but most of that was on our LBs. Grade C+

    I think that's all pretty fair. I won't blame Ireland for the team coming out flat almost every week. That's on Joe "Paint Dry" Philbin. But these personnel moves were a disaster.
    Last edited by Sparky; 12-29-2013 at 11:06 PM.

  2. #2
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    I guess the only one I would strongly disagree with you is Jake Long. I think it was a good move to not resign him, but it was a bad move to not replace him with someone else. I think not resigning him should be closer to a A

    I also think you gave Ellerbee and Wheeler too low of a rating. Wheeler has made a couple bonehead plays like the one against Tampa Bay that I consider a game losing bonehead move, but I don't think he deserves a F. Our defense overall played well this season and it would be hard for me to give any of the starters on the defense a F.

    Our draft class was horrible, I can only hope that some of these players drafted this season have long term value. Jeff Ireland drafting skills has been very poor.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plague View Post
    I guess the only one I would strongly disagree with you is Jake Long. I think it was a good move to not resign him, but it was a bad move to not replace him with someone else. I think not resigning him should be closer to a A

    I also think you gave Ellerbee and Wheeler too low of a rating. Wheeler has made a couple bonehead plays like the one against Tampa Bay that I consider a game losing bonehead move, but I don't think he deserves a F. Our defense overall played well this season and it would be hard for me to give any of the starters on the defense a F.

    Our draft class was horrible, I can only hope that some of these players drafted this season have long term value. Jeff Ireland drafting skills has been very poor.
    Actually, we're on the same page on Jake Long too. That's what I wrote - that I agreed with letting him walk b/c of the injury risk and his contract demands - but my bad grade there was for only insuring that loss with Jonathan Martin and Dallas Thomas. That was negligent.

  4. #4
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    I love when people preach patience with coaches, yet call players busts after one year.

    mfw the Miami Dolphins

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KodytheKing View Post
    I love when people preach patience with coaches, yet call players busts after one year.
    I'M NOT CALLING ANY OF OUR ROOKIES BUSTS FOR THEIR ENTIRE CAREERS.

    I'm saying they were busted picks as far as the results of THIS YEAR.

    I'm saying that Ireland knew he was on a short leash as a 6th year GM who hadn't made the playoffs in 5 years and had just spent $100m in guaranteed money. And this was a mediocre roster for which rookies should've been able to push for playing time. That Dion Jordan pick cost us potential combinations of awesome talent had we just stayed at 12 and picked another guy in early round 2 (can you imagine if we had gotten Sheldon Richardson + Kiko Alonso instead of Dion).

    Now if one or two of the rooks didn't contribute due to injuries or just slow development, then fine. But the entire class!??!?!? C'mon man!!!!!!!!

    Again, not condemning these guys as busts for their entire careers. BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, THIS WAS A BUST OF A DRAFT FOR IRELAND SINCE IT WILL GET HIM FIRED. Mercifully!

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    I will agree with the Grimes, Wallace and Gibson grades . . . seems about right. Ellerbe and Wheeler shouldn't be that low of a 'playing' grade, but 'paying' grade . . . hell yeah they were paid too much.
    We needes more speed at the LB position and we got it . . . but with speed you run the risk of losing decent run stuffing potential, and thats what happened. They were well below average in the running game, but did decent in the passing game.

    I will agree with you on the draft grades though for this year alone. All the players were not handled properly by this staff and not used to their full potential. I would have loved to see Dion play some OLB and cover TE's more. Taylor/Davis . . . injuries pretty took away their entire seasons. Sturgis was the highest rated kicker in the draft and he did decent for us. Had a rough stretch, but wasn't horrible for a rookie. DC was way overpaid and we didn't need him. The pick of Thomas is all Ireland though . . . horrible pick. Jury is still out on Sims and Gilleslee.

    I would grade the draft this way:
    1st yr - D
    Potential - B (Jordan, Taylor, Davis, Sims)

    FA grade for this year: C-

    You're right, way too much money spent in all the wrong places. I was fine with Wallace because we needed him bad. Needed to add the speed of Wheeler and Ellerbe to our LB core for those 'A Gap' blitzes . . . just didn't work. Grimes was a hell of a pick up and we all knew that before the season even started. The extensions I was okay with because Jones broke out in 2012 and Misi is solid at LB.

  7. #7
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    I agree with most things. That being said I disagree with your view on Jordan and wallace. I give the wallace signing a B+ as he was a little over paid but the deep ball takes chemistry and that takes time to develop. As the season went along him and Tanny got much better.

    Now Jordan showed me enough to say that he will be a defensive game changer in this league. We knew he wasn't going to set the world on fire his rookie year. That pick is still an A for me given that we barely gave up anything to move that high up. Plus Ireland probably would have wasted that 2nd round pick anyway.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CeltBruinSoxFan View Post
    I will agree with the Grimes, Wallace and Gibson grades . . . seems about right. Ellerbe and Wheeler shouldn't be that low of a 'playing' grade, but 'paying' grade . . . hell yeah they were paid too much.
    We needes more speed at the LB position and we got it . . . but with speed you run the risk of losing decent run stuffing potential, and thats what happened. They were well below average in the running game, but did decent in the passing game.

    I will agree with you on the draft grades though for this year alone. All the players were not handled properly by this staff and not used to their full potential. I would have loved to see Dion play some OLB and cover TE's more. Taylor/Davis . . . injuries pretty took away their entire seasons. Sturgis was the highest rated kicker in the draft and he did decent for us. Had a rough stretch, but wasn't horrible for a rookie. DC was way overpaid and we didn't need him. The pick of Thomas is all Ireland though . . . horrible pick. Jury is still out on Sims and Gilleslee.

    I would grade the draft this way:
    1st yr - D
    Potential - B (Jordan, Taylor, Davis, Sims)

    FA grade for this year: C-

    You're right, way too much money spent in all the wrong places. I was fine with Wallace because we needed him bad. Needed to add the speed of Wheeler and Ellerbe to our LB core for those 'A Gap' blitzes . . . just didn't work. Grimes was a hell of a pick up and we all knew that before the season even started. The extensions I was okay with because Jones broke out in 2012 and Misi is solid at LB.
    Let's not make excuses for Taylor and Davis. They were both healthy the last 6-7 weeks of the season and couldn't beat out guys off the street.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by oconn444 View Post
    I agree with most things. That being said I disagree with your view on Jordan and wallace. I give the wallace signing a B+ as he was a little over paid but the deep ball takes chemistry and that takes time to develop. As the season went along him and Tanny got much better.

    Now Jordan showed me enough to say that he will be a defensive game changer in this league. We knew he wasn't going to set the world on fire his rookie year. That pick is still an A for me given that we barely gave up anything to move that high up. Plus Ireland probably would have wasted that 2nd round pick anyway.
    Barely gave up anything? I know we paid less than other teams have in past years, but take a look at rounds 2 and 3 and look at some of the guys we missed out on by trading away that early 2nd round pick. Keenan Allen, Tyran Mathieu, Kiko Alonso, Eddy Lacy, Terrence Williams, etc. etc. And all those guys lost so we could trade up for an injured tweener.

    And 2 sacks all year is not exactly showing me that he's a game changer. YI don't blame you for wanting to be optimistic, but I went to the games and keyed in on him.......and I thought I saw......JUST ANOTHER GUY.
    Last edited by Sparky; 12-30-2013 at 09:19 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    Barely gave up anything? I know we paid less than other teams have in past years, but take a look at rounds 2 and 3 and look at some of the guys we missed out on by trading away that early 2nd round pick. Keenan Allen, Tyran Mathieu, Kiko Alonso, Eddy Lacy, Terrence Williams, etc. etc. And all those guys lost so we could trade up for an injured tweener.

    And 2 sacks all year is not exactly showing me that he's a game changer. YI don't blame you for wanting to be optimistic, but I went to the games and keyed in on him.......and I thought I saw......JUST ANOTHER GUY.
    fully agree with oconn. that's what made the Jordan pick so great was because we trade raped to get him. Jordan is worth more than a 2nd rounder as he was considered the best D player in the draft.

    as much as I love Mathieu he did have red flags so you cant blame the FO for not taking him. this whole Incognito/Martin thing is enough bad PR as it is.

    only 3 scenario I think would have made us not trading up worth it but its easy when you have a full season in and can see the future

    all 3 scenarios include us drafting Kiko Alonso in the 2nd round. problem with that is we paid for Ellerbe in FA. adding him and taking Star Lotulelei in the 1st and spending Ellerbe money somewhere else in FA would have made not trading up for Jordan worth it. Vaccaro or Richardson in the 1st instead of Star the other scenarios but Star would have been the best choice out of the 3.

    since we did buy Ellerbe no 2nd round pick and diff 1st round pick is better than what we got in Jordan imo

    I have no problem with the Jamar Taylor pick. he could end up a solid CB and was a position of need. Mathieu is the only player I would have picked over him. I would have but I cant blame the FO for not taking the risk. I would have traded to get Albert instead of taking him but they will likely get a OL guy in 2014 FA so its not a big deal

    Dallas Thomas is the only draft pick I have issues with. they ignored the OL need so much that it looks like they reached on a poor one. Markus Wheaton, Hugh Thornton, Logan Ryan, Jordan Reed all would have been better picks there. still early though so who knows maybe with added weight and strength and coaching he will be serviceable

    Lacy wouldn't have helped us at all
    Last edited by tunnicliffderek; 12-31-2013 at 01:30 AM.
    Take Notes Rook

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tunnicliffderek View Post
    fully agree with oconn. that's what made the Jordan pick so great was because we trade raped to get him. Jordan is worth more than a 2nd rounder as he was considered the best D player in the draft.

    as much as I love Mathieu he did have red flags so you cant blame the FO for not taking him. this whole Incognito/Martin thing is enough bad PR as it is.

    only 3 scenario I think would have made us not trading up worth it but its easy when you have a full season in and can see the future

    all 3 scenarios include us drafting Kiko Alonso in the 2nd round. problem with that is we paid for Ellerbe in FA. adding him and taking Star Lotulelei in the 1st and spending Ellerbe money somewhere else in FA would have made not trading up for Jordan worth it. Vaccaro or Richardson in the 1st instead of Star the other scenarios but Star would have been the best choice out of the 3.

    since we did buy Ellerbe no 2nd round pick and diff 1st round pick is better than what we got in Jordan imo

    I have no problem with the Jamar Taylor pick. he could end up a solid CB and was a position of need. Mathieu is the only player I would have picked over him. I would have but I cant blame the FO for not taking the risk. I would have traded to get Albert instead of taking him but they will likely get a OL guy in 2014 FA so its not a big deal

    Dallas Thomas is the only draft pick I have issues with. they ignored the OL need so much that it looks like they reached on a poor one. Markus Wheaton, Hugh Thornton, Logan Ryan, Jordan Reed all would have been better picks there. still early though so who knows maybe with added weight and strength and coaching he will be serviceable

    Lacy wouldn't have helped us at all
    Let me start at the end here. We'll agree to disagree on Lacy. He was my fantasy back so I watched him all year. Miller and DT can't hold his jock. You can say that he would've struggled behind our craptastic OL but you don't NOT draft good players just b/c of a team deficiency in a current year.

    As for the whole trading up for Dion vs. any combination of players we could've had at 12 + early round 2........
    ........I'll just say this.........when this draft gets Ireland fired.........which it will........then we'll know he F'd up.

    And btw, I don't blame you for being hopeful for Dion. I sure hope he does well in the future too. But I just didn't see anything out of him to tell me he was worth 3 overall.
    Last edited by Sparky; 12-31-2013 at 10:29 AM.

  12. #12
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    Yeah, I agree. Paul Soliai, Olivier Vernon, Jared Odrick, Reshad Jones, and Brian Hartline all suck. There were so bad. Don’t even get me started on Cameron Wake. That guy can’t even cut it in the NFL.

    Oh wait… the staff actually gave those players more than one year to develop before labeling them busts and they turned into pro bowl type players. Funny.

    You can’t call a rookie a bust for just this year. It doesn’t work like that. I understand they didn’t produce that much this year but please, shut the **** up until they reach their third year. You’re going to save your wrists from carpel tunnel. You can thank me later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PSU Dolphins View Post
    Yeah, I agree. Paul Soliai, Olivier Vernon, Jared Odrick, Reshad Jones, and Brian Hartline all suck. There were so bad. Don’t even get me started on Cameron Wake. That guy can’t even cut it in the NFL.

    Oh wait… the staff actually gave those players more than one year to develop before labeling them busts and they turned into pro bowl type players. Funny.

    You can’t call a rookie a bust for just this year. It doesn’t work like that. I understand they didn’t produce that much this year but please, shut the **** up until they reach their third year. You’re going to save your wrists from carpel tunnel. You can thank me later.
    Everyone you listed played more snaps than any of our rookies other than Odrick who broke his leg and even he was a starter though.

    Also, they did not produce at all. All of our rookies snaps combined where less than alot of rookies single season snap counts. We by far got the littlest out of our rookie class and it hurt us in the end.

    Even if some of the guys turn out to be good players you can't say this wasn't a letdown, we needed them to help out and UDFAs where playing ahead of them.
    Last edited by Wrench; 12-31-2013 at 11:35 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PSU Dolphins View Post
    Yeah, I agree. Paul Soliai, Olivier Vernon, Jared Odrick, Reshad Jones, and Brian Hartline all suck. There were so bad. Don’t even get me started on Cameron Wake. That guy can’t even cut it in the NFL.

    Oh wait… the staff actually gave those players more than one year to develop before labeling them busts and they turned into pro bowl type players. Funny.

    You can’t call a rookie a bust for just this year. It doesn’t work like that. I understand they didn’t produce that much this year but please, shut the **** up until they reach their third year. You’re going to save your wrists from carpel tunnel. You can thank me later.
    Dude, I've said this a million times now..........I AM NOT CONDEMNING THESE ROOKIES AS BUSTS FOR THEIR ENTIRE CAREERS.

    It's my fault for the confusion b/c of the title of that other thread. That's my bad. But I have said over and over again that it is not my take that these guys are all busts. I'm simply saying that it's mind-boggling that NONE of them contributed THIS YEAR.

    I specifically mentioned that my grades were for THIS YEAR.

    ....that it almost seems implausible that a GM with that many picks could get so little immediate help for a medicore roster that certainly could've used an injection of talent to help us THIS YEAR.

    That was the whole point of the article in the OP in that other draft thread. And that writer's take was further proven over the course of the year - that somehow - despite having all those picks - Ireland got us zero help for THIS YEAR.

    Do you think it's too much to ask that at least SOME of our rookies contribute AS ROOKIES?

    Is that asking too much?
    Last edited by Sparky; 12-31-2013 at 11:10 AM.

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    Whatever. I try not to get into long arguments over the internet. We disagree and nothing we say will change the other person's opinion. If you want to complain about this year's draft class on every thread until your fingers fall off, be my guest. I'm just trying to help you save time. I am also a little disappointed they didn't produce that much but they're rookies. It happens. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

    2012(3) Football Season. Bring It. (Let's Go.)

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