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  1. #1
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    Can you really be a star bigman in the NBA without being a defensive anchor?

    If you're a big who can score decently(/not elite) but cant defend the rim worth squat (Cousins, Al Jefferson, Z-Bo), can a team truly justify your stature as a franchise guy? I feel like its easier to find sources of scoring from every other position, but defensive dominance MUST come from your bigs. Just look at whats happened to the once proud Memphis defense without Gasol. Look at how awful Sacramento has remained despite Cousins improvements.

    You tell me whats a better setup, a high scoring PG with a rim protecting big. Or a high scoring Center with a great defensive PG? Prolly not gonna get much value from that defensive PG.

    This might come off as common sense to some of you but the question Im trying to raise is this, do defensive anchors with limited offense have more value than go-to guys who just suck at defense?

  2. #2
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    Can you really be a star bigman in the NBA without being a defensive anchor?

    I wouldn't want my team building around a center that's plays no defense. Just look at what Hibbert does for Indy says it all. He barely avgs double figures but he puts his stamp on the game by protecting the rim.

  3. #3
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    Well to answer the thread question, I do believe that they can be a star without being a defensive anchor.

    To answer your other question, a scoring PG/defensive C is probably better.
    'Cause my life is dope, and I do dope shi*

  4. #4
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    Well it obviously depends on the makeup of the team but generally speaking defensive big men are more valuable than "good" scoring big men.


    Quote Originally Posted by rhymeratic View Post
    Shoot I'd even put up Glen Rice and Mitch Richmond in their prime at or slightly better than James. Even Glenn Robinson who is a forgotten beast.


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    Kobe GOAT LOL
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  5. #5
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    This is why Omer is valued so high by Morey.

    Not saying he is a star but he can anchor a defense.

    To answer the question. You can be a "star" but idk if you can be the elite Superstar. (Dwight, Duncan, Gasol, Hibbert.)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    If you're a big who can score decently(/not elite) but cant defend the rim worth squat (Cousins, Al Jefferson, Z-Bo), can a team truly justify your stature as a franchise guy? I feel like its easier to find sources of scoring from every other position, but defensive dominance MUST come from your bigs. Just look at whats happened to the once proud Memphis defense without Gasol. Look at how awful Sacramento has remained despite Cousins improvements.

    You tell me whats a better setup, a high scoring PG with a rim protecting big. Or a high scoring Center with a great defensive PG? Prolly not gonna get much value from that defensive PG.

    This might come off as common sense to some of you but the question Im trying to raise is this, do defensive anchors with limited offense have more value than go-to guys who just suck at defense?
    It's tough. What do we mean by a "go-to guy"? Because while a defensively dominant big is not replaceable by a dominant wing defender, neither are dominant paint shots replaceable by dominant mid-range scoring.

    Points per game are the easiest thing on a basketball court to replace. Shooting efficiency (TS%) is the most difficult thing to replace. Rebounding is also far more difficult to replace than points, and has more marginal value, but defensive rebounds are easier to replace than offensive, especially spread across positions (easier to replace defensive rebounds with a SF than offensive).

    A big's primary roles are, in order:

    Shooting efficiency
    Rim protection
    Offensive rebounds
    Defensive rebounds

    So, it would seem that offense is slightly more important, in a raw sense, than defense.

    However, the idea of replacability is built across positions, and defined by league average. That is, how easy is it to replace league average? At the 4/5 I would venture a guess that replacement level or even average are both higher for scoring efficiency and defensive rebounding.

    This means that elite defense and offensive rebounding have a larger separation from league average, and therefore at the 4/5 pose an area of more difficulty to replace and more marginal value.

    However, the reality seems to me that it's harder to find an offensively elite big who is as bad on defense as some of the best defenders are on offense.

    Ben Wallace was better than any and all offensive centers except Shaq that he played against. But Shaq was much better because he was mediocre defensively while Wallace was awful on offense.

  7. #7
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    ^^^^ shooting efficiency does not come before rim protection, that's crazy. rim protection is the single most important attribute a big can bring to the game. usually bigs are efficient but ill take a big that scores 9 points on 45% shooting if he protects the rim like Larry Sanders. You can get scoring from all the other positions but a C to anchor the defense is way more valuable. Look at Javale, his FG% is solid but his rim protection is awful, that's why I don't like him on my Nuggs.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    If you're a big who can score decently(/not elite) but cant defend the rim worth squat (Cousins, Al Jefferson, Z-Bo), can a team truly justify your stature as a franchise guy? I feel like its easier to find sources of scoring from every other position, but defensive dominance MUST come from your bigs. Just look at whats happened to the once proud Memphis defense without Gasol. Look at how awful Sacramento has remained despite Cousins improvements.

    You tell me whats a better setup, a high scoring PG with a rim protecting big. Or a high scoring Center with a great defensive PG? Prolly not gonna get much value from that defensive PG.

    This might come off as common sense to some of you but the question Im trying to raise is this, do defensive anchors with limited offense have more value than go-to guys who just suck at defense?
    There is little value in a big that can't defend IMO. Offense from your bigs is like defense from your pg - a luxury but not critical IMO.

  9. #9
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    100% absolutely you can have a franchise with a guy like Cousins you just need to pair him with a shot blocker and/or your rotations have to be crisp.. Sacramento doesnt have one good defensive player on the roster and the coach constantly calls out the perimeter for being unable to contain anyone.

    There are plenty of players who you can pair with these types of big men

    Birdman
    Ibaka
    Eyebrow
    Tyson Chandler
    Drummond
    Larry Sanders

    And much more
    Also cousins has made great strides in defense .. number one in steals ( among. Centers ) one of the league leaders In taking charges regularly and his blocks are much improved .. dudes a beast but were are like last in defending the 3 and our pick n role D is horrible because of late rotations.

    Look at Miami Bosh plays center and he isn't intimidating anyone
    Last edited by Sactown; 12-25-2013 at 04:29 PM.

  10. #10
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    If were talking centers, they must play defense to be a star. It's there #1 job.

    If were talking power forwards, I think if they are incredibly dynamic they jay be able to play below average defense and still but a star? I dunno, that's a tough one.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AddiX View Post
    If were talking centers, they must play defense to be a star. It's there #1 job.

    If were talking power forwards, I think if they are incredibly dynamic they jay be able to play below average defense and still but a star? I dunno, that's a tough one.
    I disagree I think you need one good defensive player at the PF or Center doesn't need to be just the Center.. or you just need great rotations from everyone Miami is an elite defensive team and they play Bosh at the 5 for a large number of minutes.. shot blocking to me is overrated

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by HYFR View Post
    I wouldn't want my team building around a center that's plays no defense. Just look at what Hibbert does for Indy says it all. He barely avgs double figures but he puts his stamp on the game by protecting the rim.
    If I had my choice, Hibbert wouldn't be it. The guy is far far too inefficient from the field for somebody at his position.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by AddiX View Post
    If were talking centers, they must play defense to be a star. It's there #1 job.

    If were talking power forwards, I think if they are incredibly dynamic they jay be able to play below average defense and still but a star? I dunno, that's a tough one.
    In a traditional sense, defense is a big part of a Center's game. However, whether or not Defense is their #1 job is based on the team they are playing on.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sactown View Post
    I disagree I think you need one good defensive player at the PF or Center doesn't need to be just the Center.. or you just need great rotations from everyone Miami is an elite defensive team and they play Bosh at the 5 for a large number of minutes.. shot blocking to me is overrated
    No you don't need to have one good defensive big man, it is however preferred, logical, and makes life a whole lot easier on the coaches and the team.

    If your team understands rotations, plays physical, and has superb communication then you don't need a defensive big man. Basketball isn't a 1-on-1 game. Teams will run screens and do everything they can to try and draw favorable mismatches or to get a defense out of position but as long as you have superb rotation and communication you are good to go.

    After re-reading your comment, I see that you said or you just need great rotations....well that really means that you disagree with what you said in the first part of your comment.

    You are not alone, shot blocking is considered an overrated art in the game of basketball and I don't know why.

    Why do people think Roy Hibbert makes such a big impact on defense against teams like Miami? It's because Miami knnows if they drive there's a 7'1 monster waiting to block their shot.

    Shot blocking alone does not indicate how good a player is on the defensive end, however it is a huge asset.

    For example. One team has Roy Hibbert and Larry Sanders waiting in the paint. Another team has Joakim Noah and Marc Gasol waiting. Who will cause more reluctance of driving into the paint?

    Most likely, it is the former duo. However, the latter duo is consisted of superior defensive players. That speaks volumes to how shot blocking should not be overlooked.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sactown View Post
    I disagree I think you need one good defensive player at the PF or Center doesn't need to be just the Center.. or you just need great rotations from everyone Miami is an elite defensive team and they play Bosh at the 5 for a large number of minutes.. shot blocking to me is overrated
    You are right shot blocking is very overrated. Shot contesting is hugely underrated.

    People assume that one is an indicator of the other and it often is not.
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 12-25-2013 at 04:58 PM.

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